So meanwhile, has he gotten the healthcare yet that United denied him?? Let us not forget that was the impetus of his prison martyrdom.
My god they’re going to imprison the poor guy forever without a trial, won’t they?
The feds didn’t get him on murder. My first thought when I saw this is that he has very clever defense attorneys that at least managed to frustrate the state prosecutors by having him plead to a federal non-murder charge that could shut down the State murder case through double jeopardy.
I can’t remember any other time in my life that I’ve been hoping somebody would get off on a technicality
They cannot do that. If they aren’t going to try him, they must release him.
You must be new here. That’s not how the American
justicepunishment system works.
As a conspiracy theorist: The bigger question is, I wonder what they’re distracting us from this week? They’re gonna hold him to use his presence as a distraction when they need one. Other than that, he is a suspected murderer and they’ll use that as the official reason for holding him but we all know, deep down inside, he’s now a tool to be used to distract us.
So we should all be asking the questions: Who are we invading this week? Where’s the next biggest arsenal shipment heading? Who’s going to be teaming up with Israel this week? Is Germany teaming up with Israel the will of the US or is it defeatism?
What is going on that they just plopped him into the news?
The trial in the state can’t move forward until double jeopardy is determined to apply or not. Did you think they just suspended the trial cause evil? Cause I’m not following your statement otherwise
Did you think they just suspended the trial cause evil?
…Yes?
While normally that could be the case, but in this case he isn’t getting released either way.
The trial moving forward would be the worse scenario for the defendant. The state charges are worse than the federal charges. The later or never the state case gets tried, the better for him.
The point I was making is that there used to be a human rights violation and against the First and Fifth Amendments to hold someone indefinitely without a trial. But that ended in 2014.
It is totally reasonable to criticize length of detention while denying the right to a reasonable trial in general.
However this just happens to not be applicable in this specific situation. The guy entered a guilty plea and so will not be released anyway, and he himself requested the case be dismissed causing the delay. If he went along with it, he could have had a trial sooner but wants the delay in hopes of having it dismissed. Which is totally sensible and he has literally nothing to gain by having the trial sooner given that he is almost certainly due for years of imprisonment under his guilty federal plea.
It’s suspended because there’s no point in holding a trial if it’s going to be overturned on double jeopardy. It’s indefinite since there’s no point in scheduling a follow-up until the question of it being double jeopardy is answered.
Like, guys, stop attributing motivations to what is arguably the only way forward.
Only way forward? They didn’t have to file the double jeopardy cases in the first place. They chose to, in order to be evil and harass and torture him with the legal system to the maximum extent possible.
His lawyers filed double jeopardy. Unless the prosecution can provide a reason it’s not, they have to drop the case.
I’m saying they didn’t have to file those double charges in the first place. They chose to, knowing exactly how many problems it would cause for him. On purpose. As a torture method.
Actually, it’s arguably a huge prosecution mistake in Magione’s favor.
The federal charges were restrained by the circumstances of the event. They couldn’t do first or second degree federal homicide, because it didn’t meet any of the criteria of those crimes. Of course life without parole is a possibility, but there’s high chance that a lesser sentence results.
Knowing the way the state law works, the DOJ probably should have just let the state case play out, where they could have at least gone for second degree murder, with a significant mandatory minimum sentence if convicted.
Ok, well, unfortunately Luigi’s lawyers can’t travel back in time to prevent him being prosecuted, so filing for double jeopardy is the only way forward for them.
Yes. Yes that is evil.
Make a decision or release him. It’s literally that easy (im aware courts take longer to do everything but suspending indefinitely is kind of insane)
“Release him”? Dude, he’s in jail pending sentencing for his federal case. There is no releasing at this point. This isn’t anyone twisting a knife, it’s just not scheduling a new court date until the double jeopardy question is resolved. Y’all need to chill and put your heads on before you react to things.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s office said in a statement that it would fight efforts to end the state case, in part because Mangione’s federal sentence isn’t yet known.
Compared with federal law and that of other states, New York has uncommonly strong protections for defendants facing multiple prosecutions. A state prosecution can be barred if a federal case involving the same course of conduct or criminal transaction ends in a guilty plea or if a jury is sworn.
Pleading guilty was some deep strategy by his team. It’s going to be so fucking hilarious when he gets off state charges because of double jeopardy.
Maybe that’s why they were so quick to reverse course on the insanity plea or whatever.
The rich fear jury nullification will encourage more justice, so they made up some bullshit.
Confused here.
So it’s to plead guilty to a lesser sentence, so in attempt to void the same crime with a heavier sentence?
Pretty much ya. Specifically because the state murder charges are in NY. This wouldn’t fly everywhere.
What does this mean for the non-lawyers still curious?
It means he gets double points if he guesses the right question based on the answer
This is the half I do know and also why I’m still lost!🤬
Double jeopardy is being charged with the same crime twice.
His lawyers are arguing that because he has already pled guilty to the federal charges of “interstate stalking resulting in death,” and “cyber stalking resulting in death” that the state charges of second degree murder, weapons possession and false identification should be dismissed.
The state prosecutors are arguing that the state charges are different enough that they should be allowed to go forward with the state trial as well.
Usually all the parts of a single crime that result in separate charges count as the same incident for purposes of double jeopardy.
Orange hater here: it’s worth pointing out that the federal charges came after the pedopres put pressure on the DOJ to ensure that there would be federal charges on top of the state charges.
Anything the orange turd touches dies.
The honest answer is basically you can’t be tried twice for the same crime. Say someone is found dead, the police think you did it, you go on trial and found innocent, the police can’t just put you on another trial hoping for a different verdict.
What about appeals? In my country you will usually start your case in the city court and can appeal the result to the state court. If it is a special case without clear precedent, you can get approval to try your case at the supreme court. In some edge cases city courts might say you have to start in the state court, but you always get at least one appeal. In very special cases a city court might say you have to start in the state court, but then you can still appeal to the supreme court without approval.
It is not rare for a higher court to reverse the verdict of a lower court completely if the higher court interpreted the law differently. In that case the lower courts will use that as precedence for future cases whether it will be a reversal of the guilty verdict or the punishment.
As the accused you can appeal. So if you found guilty and then there is new evidence, better science, an impartial jury etc you can appeal and argue you are innocent. But if you are found innocent the state can’t do the same.
Let’s say there’s a murder 5 years before dna evidence is discovered. The state accuses someone and puts them on trial and a verdict is declared. Now dna evidence is discovered. If the person was found guilty they can file an appeal saying based on this new dna evidence they can prove they are are innocent. If the person was found innocent however the state can not file an appeal saying based on this new DNA evidence now we can prove that person did it.
State gets one shot at proving you guilty, you get multiple to prove you’re innocent.
State gets one shot at proving you guilty, you get multiple to prove you’re innocent.
To be fair, this sounds better than it works, as your appeal may take a lot of time to actually free you, even after the appeal is successful
100% true but I was trying to explain the idea of double jeopardy then he brought up appeals so briefly tried to explain how that works
In America you can’t appeal someone being found not guilty you only appeal a guilty verdict
Huh weird, TIL. In Denmark both the prosecution and the defence can appeal any verdict/punishment. But you only have 14 days to decide whether you want to appeal.
It would be fairly awful given the circumstances. We have a history of faulty and overzealous prosecutions especially against black and poor people. For any given offense there are essentially 3 sorts of sentences. The sentence they will threaten you with in hopes of getting you to plea even if innocent say something absurd like 20 years, the “deal” you may be given which could be 3 months and the punishment for making them actually go to trial which may be 3 years.
Theoretically everyone is entitled to representation but you may not qualify for free help unless you are desperately poor and the quality of the free help may be so bad its worse than nothing. It’s normal for unsuccessful prosecution to cost anything from thousands to hundreds of thousands depending on complexity of case. Ultimately virtually all cases are settled with a plea including cases which are so weak its hit or miss if they would have secured a conviction or sometimes cases so weak there was no chance of conviction but scared people accept it. Especially if its a case in which they get no actual time in jail they just agree to pay the government continually for years and go to jail if they ever get in trouble. Hell some people plea because the alternative is spending months in jail although innocent because they cannot afford to pay to get out but they get out immediately with a plea but agree to get robbed by the government for years.
In fact there is a sort of plea you can enter where you don’t admit you did anything wrong but agree to go to jail anyway.
So if you understand just how fucked up our system is imagine if they can just keep going after going all the way to trial and definitively losing.
It’s hilarious that our pres talks about shithole countries whilst presiding over one.
In the US, the prosecution can appeal sentencing and pre-trial, but once you get to ‘not guilty’ or ‘guilty’, all prosecution associated with a crime is no longer constitutional.
However, you can get a civil trial after a not-guilty criminal trial (OJ Simpson was ‘not guilty’ in criminal court and became untouchable, but was found to have killed under civil court and had to pay the victims families).
From a prosecution perspective, the federal charges were a huge mistake. Nothing about the crime qualified it as ‘federal homicide’, so they had to settle for lesser charges. Normally the DOJ would back off and let the state handle it because it firmly falls in their jurisdiction, but of course this DOJ wanted to throw its weight around and it backfired on them.
same in australia.
Can’t be tried for the same crime twice. So if he pleads guilty in federal court then he can’t be tried again in state court.
Didn’t the feds want him so to a death sentence though?
Problem is that the crime didn’t fit any of the criteria for federal homicide, so they had to settle for lesser charges if they wanted to pursue it as a federal case. A more strategic DOJ probably would have let the state handle it, since it was by all measures the core of the incident would have been a state crime rather than federal.
The
crimecharges they had evidence for. The feds fucked up the evidence.Even with evidence, murder is usually a state matter, with very specific circumstances required for it to be federal. It didn’t meet those criteria.
Any death penalty charges were thrown out a while ago iirc. I think life in prison is the max he can get now.
And sentencing guidelines suggest 25-30 years for what he plead guilty too.
So if he gets the guideline amount, good behaviour in prison, and state case dropped, could easily be walking free in his early 50s.
Probably a smart play by him tbh. Plus federal prisons tend to be much less horrible conditions than state prisons.
Bondi tried to encourage it.
Well, this man will never be tried.
Good. He did nothing wrong
But he will also be stuck as prisoner of this farce of a justice system for ever.
