Right now, Palestinians, Israelis and all of us with family on the ground are terrified for loved ones. We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety. Following 16 years of Israeli military blockade, Palestinian fighters from…
I did, they are opposed to zionism, which the ADL says could spread to antisemitism. I don’t see any point where they make an antisemitic argument directly, that comes from people who intrinsically link zionism and Isreal to being Jewish.
In addition to JVP’s promotion of messaging that descends into the antisemitic vilification of “Zionists,” the group has expressed support for violence and, occasionally, classic antisemitic tropes. Some JVP members, leaders and chapters propagate rhetoric or sponsor events where participants express support for violence or terror against Israelis and vilify Zionist Jews. In a few instances, they have espoused blatant antisemitic tropes, including modern manifestations of the blood libel and allegations of Jewish dual loyalty to the countries in which they live
It then lists three examples. One of Israeli soldiers drinking the blood of the dead, one of Netanyahu eating children, and someone saying that a quote is built on the pretense of ethnic cleansing. The first two don’t specifically say anything about the blood libel, and are more provocative imagery that isn’t unusal for representation of oppression. Especially when you’re talking about oppression from a group that routinely kills children. The dual loyalty claim is also spurious. You could say something similar about manifest destiny and American exceptionalism as a criticism to the people who espouse those beliefs without saying those things about Americans broadly.
Those are clearly examples of blood libel — in what sense are they not? Like how much of that is okay before it’s antisemitic hate speech? (answer: zero.)
You could but Americans aren’t Jewish so it isn’t antisemitism. When the context is different the meaning is different. That’s how words work.
But you are also saying here Israelis routinely kills children so I guess you basically just agree with the source. Good to know where you stand I guess.
Okay, this debate is falling apart. You’re not looking past your idea that Isreal=Jewish, nor are you interpreting my arguments correctly.
There’s propaganda from World War 2 of Hitler eating people, but I guess in your interpretation, you’d say it doesn’t matter because he’s not Jewish, when the symbolism is the callous disregard for people in treating them like cattle through oppression. Blood libel doesn’t need to factor into anything here when you say that Isreal is enacting violence against a group of people.
Here is where you misinterpret my argument. I’m not saying criticism of Americans is antisemitism? I’m saying that a group of Jewish people who hold a belief isn’t representative of the whole, and criticism of that group isn’t criticism of Jews. So anyone (or any government) that’s using an argument of being a “light to the world” to spread belief, or “manifest destiny” to take over land, is worth criticizing. It doesn’t matter the race of an authoritarian, authoritarianism is the problem here.
According to B’Tselem, by 2021, 2,171 Palestinian children had been killed by Israeli military action. I’m not sure how you can deny that’s happening. But it’s clear by your response that you’re not interested in actually talking about this, and want to make assertions.
I do, but that is not the same as bllindly following a state sanctioned narrative justifying asymmetrical warfare that is coming from the incredibly unpopular and authoritarian Benjamin Netanyahu.
Yeah, that same guy who recently attempted to OVERTHROW the authority of the Israeli Supreme Court in order to erode legal protections from Palestinians and justify additional land grabs.
Jesus Christ. Netanyahu is not the ADL and does not speak for all Jews. Even though the ADL is part of Israel that doesn’t make it propaganda or trying to overthrow democracy. Many Israelis are opposed to that themselves.
This is why the claims of “being anti-Israel doesn’t mean you’re antisemitic” are actually worthless. Because in the same breath people will paint all Israel and all Jews with the same brush. Yes, that is antisemitism.
Jews saying what is or isn’t antisemitism is propaganda? Nice propaganda yourself.
^ This is literally you conflating the ADL as being the voice for all Jews on what is or isn’t anti-semitic. You are too hyprociritical to even play by your own rules, and want to paint with your own broad brush. You apparently refuse to accept that Israel has a long history of utilizing state sanctioned propaganda to justify its atrocities because you are either uncomfortable with those ethical implications or you believe the ends justify the means.
Secondarily, I never said Benjamin Netanyahu spoke for all “Jews”. I find it to be ironic that you used that label rather than “Israelis” because it implies that Israel is an ethno-religious state by YOUR OWN FREUDIAN ADMISSION. I would never suggest that the leader of a country speaks for all of its citizens. I certainly don’t think Donald Trump speaks for all Americans, nor does Joe Biden for that matter.
HOWEVER, I am certainly able to point out a leaders use of convenient propaganda to justify their continuing and escalating authoritarian actions. Which, is exactly what we have seen Bejnamin Netanyahu do so far in response to this violence. Yep, justify more violence, more asymmetrical responses, and push the envelope even further to eradicating all Palestinians. It’s pretty “on-brand” if I do say so myself…
Lastly, I support the religious freedom of all groups as long as they do not harm or disenfranchise any other group in that process. That is what the free exercise of religion is founded upon, as well as the freedom FROM religion for all of us who do not believe. So you keep lying all you want, and trying to paint me as a bigot. I couldn’t give a fuck less.
Given there are “Jewish voices” who cry antisemitism, not because they’re reacting to prejudice, but because they want to silence dissenting voices, why trust?
Nearly 60% of Jews in the US are opposed to the oppression of Palestinians by the state of Israel. Does their anti-zionist position make them antisemitic? Judaism and the people that follow the religion are fine. The state of Israel is fascist. There is no contradiction in those statements.
Being anti-Isreal isn’t the same as being antisemitic
But they are also antisemitic. Did you read the article the ADL has on them?
I did, they are opposed to zionism, which the ADL says could spread to antisemitism. I don’t see any point where they make an antisemitic argument directly, that comes from people who intrinsically link zionism and Isreal to being Jewish.
From the same page:
I guess you didn’t read it very closely?
It then lists three examples. One of Israeli soldiers drinking the blood of the dead, one of Netanyahu eating children, and someone saying that a quote is built on the pretense of ethnic cleansing. The first two don’t specifically say anything about the blood libel, and are more provocative imagery that isn’t unusal for representation of oppression. Especially when you’re talking about oppression from a group that routinely kills children. The dual loyalty claim is also spurious. You could say something similar about manifest destiny and American exceptionalism as a criticism to the people who espouse those beliefs without saying those things about Americans broadly.
Those are clearly examples of blood libel — in what sense are they not? Like how much of that is okay before it’s antisemitic hate speech? (answer: zero.)
You could but Americans aren’t Jewish so it isn’t antisemitism. When the context is different the meaning is different. That’s how words work.
But you are also saying here Israelis routinely kills children so I guess you basically just agree with the source. Good to know where you stand I guess.
Okay, this debate is falling apart. You’re not looking past your idea that Isreal=Jewish, nor are you interpreting my arguments correctly.
There’s propaganda from World War 2 of Hitler eating people, but I guess in your interpretation, you’d say it doesn’t matter because he’s not Jewish, when the symbolism is the callous disregard for people in treating them like cattle through oppression. Blood libel doesn’t need to factor into anything here when you say that Isreal is enacting violence against a group of people.
Here is where you misinterpret my argument. I’m not saying criticism of Americans is antisemitism? I’m saying that a group of Jewish people who hold a belief isn’t representative of the whole, and criticism of that group isn’t criticism of Jews. So anyone (or any government) that’s using an argument of being a “light to the world” to spread belief, or “manifest destiny” to take over land, is worth criticizing. It doesn’t matter the race of an authoritarian, authoritarianism is the problem here.
According to B’Tselem, by 2021, 2,171 Palestinian children had been killed by Israeli military action. I’m not sure how you can deny that’s happening. But it’s clear by your response that you’re not interested in actually talking about this, and want to make assertions.
This was way too measured a response, and too eloquently put together. You’re going to break their brain, and short circuit their programming.
You know Mr. Suave, I’m really really trying.
The ADL is a propaganda arm for Israel. You can trust their claims.
Jews saying what is or isn’t antisemitism is propaganda? Nice propaganda yourself.
And there is a loop
It’s easy enough to get out of; trust Jewish voices when they talk about their experiences with antisemitism?
I do, but that is not the same as bllindly following a state sanctioned narrative justifying asymmetrical warfare that is coming from the incredibly unpopular and authoritarian Benjamin Netanyahu.
Yeah, that same guy who recently attempted to OVERTHROW the authority of the Israeli Supreme Court in order to erode legal protections from Palestinians and justify additional land grabs.
Jesus Christ. Netanyahu is not the ADL and does not speak for all Jews. Even though the ADL is part of Israel that doesn’t make it propaganda or trying to overthrow democracy. Many Israelis are opposed to that themselves.
This is why the claims of “being anti-Israel doesn’t mean you’re antisemitic” are actually worthless. Because in the same breath people will paint all Israel and all Jews with the same brush. Yes, that is antisemitism.
^ This is literally you conflating the ADL as being the voice for all Jews on what is or isn’t anti-semitic. You are too hyprociritical to even play by your own rules, and want to paint with your own broad brush. You apparently refuse to accept that Israel has a long history of utilizing state sanctioned propaganda to justify its atrocities because you are either uncomfortable with those ethical implications or you believe the ends justify the means.
Secondarily, I never said Benjamin Netanyahu spoke for all “Jews”. I find it to be ironic that you used that label rather than “Israelis” because it implies that Israel is an ethno-religious state by YOUR OWN FREUDIAN ADMISSION. I would never suggest that the leader of a country speaks for all of its citizens. I certainly don’t think Donald Trump speaks for all Americans, nor does Joe Biden for that matter.
HOWEVER, I am certainly able to point out a leaders use of convenient propaganda to justify their continuing and escalating authoritarian actions. Which, is exactly what we have seen Bejnamin Netanyahu do so far in response to this violence. Yep, justify more violence, more asymmetrical responses, and push the envelope even further to eradicating all Palestinians. It’s pretty “on-brand” if I do say so myself…
Lastly, I support the religious freedom of all groups as long as they do not harm or disenfranchise any other group in that process. That is what the free exercise of religion is founded upon, as well as the freedom FROM religion for all of us who do not believe. So you keep lying all you want, and trying to paint me as a bigot. I couldn’t give a fuck less.
Given there are “Jewish voices” who cry antisemitism, not because they’re reacting to prejudice, but because they want to silence dissenting voices, why trust?
Nearly 60% of Jews in the US are opposed to the oppression of Palestinians by the state of Israel. Does their anti-zionist position make them antisemitic? Judaism and the people that follow the religion are fine. The state of Israel is fascist. There is no contradiction in those statements.
That position is not anti-Zionist. It is an antisemitic trope to call the state of Israel fascist however… and untrue besides.
Israel is a white settler colony. The 51st state of the US.