yea, “unpopular” because we’re all indoctrinated from preschool onward that it’s “natural” to be yanked out of sleep by an alarm, bust our asses to show up at work, move on to things at the sound of a bell for all the daylight hours, then get minimal, if any, sleep in order to do it all over again tomorrow. god forbid you get an opportunity for a nap in the middle of the day
thank the industrial revolution: slavery dressed up in “freedom and opportunity” – same as the other familiar phrase “arbeit macht frei”
you exist to generate value for your owners. that’s it.
I worked 55+ hours a week for years. During the pandemic I became a stay at home mom. I suddenly, never sped while driving and any road rage tendencies vanished, nearly overnight.
While I feel quite isolated and lonely sometimes, as everyone I know works and are busy all the time, I can’t stress enough how much of a change my driving habits went through when I was no longer in “workmode”.
I used to break an average of 3 traffic laws every morning getting to my 6am shift. Then, the rush to just.get.home.
To a point now, I don’t like driving during rush hours, or shopping after the work crews get off. 10am on a weekday at the grocery store? Everyone is pleasant and polite.“excuse me” I say, and we have a polite interchange. I’ll give a compliment to a womans dress, and I’ve passed some good on to a fellow human, sometimes I even receive compliments from the little old ladies, I’ve learned from them after all.
If I go to the shop after 4pm or on a weekend? I can feel folks souls have been ripped out and stomped on, knowing what they feel… I say excuse me as i have to scoot pass their cart, and I don’t even get a response just a glare. Then I return home sad.
Work/life balance is crucial. Ideally, everyone should be guaranteed a healthy work/life balance, while still being able to live comfortably. With one job.
It would be healthy for everyone to live comfortably, and then, work how and if they want to
i noticed a similar benefit to my mental state regarding the rat race. i’d been living in city/urban areas pretty much my whole life ~40 years. when i moved to a rural area and could travel 25 miles in 20 minutes instead of 10 miles in 45 minutes, the difference was indescribable. like 3 traffic lights instead of 12, people know what driving etiquette is, no road rage, etc.
now, even when i occasionally approach the nearest “city,” which is tiny by city standards, i feel the stress and irritability level rising right when i start to see more tail lights than road. it’s insane. and people do this all day every day. fuck. all. that.
There is no reason why taxes pooled together from all of our incomes cannot be used to subsidize Healthcare, education and a basic living income for all citizens. But if everone no longer had to worry about survival, no one would put up with corporate abuse from rich cunts and plus if they’d paid their fair share of taxes and couldn’t just steal tax money to gamble with, they’d never be as filthy rich as they are to begin with.
What you describe is more or less the Nordic economic model, except the basic income. Corporate abuse is low, because it is not unthinkable to “not work” in response to such abuse, but also because unions are strong. Nevertheless, a lot of people still work a lot, so it doesn’t completely change the work/life balance oddity op is posting about.
taxes pooled together from all of our incomes cannot be used to subsidize Healthcare, education and a basic living income for all citizens
Well that’s how it’s done in most rich and even some poor countries. So I assume you are talking about the US which is indeed in a terrible situation with human rights for it’s wealth. And sadly voting red/blue won’t ever change it.
Not the basic living income part, at least not anymore.
There is Social Security but it’s generally pretty miserable and nowadays not even enough to pay for rent (thanks to insane housing inflation all over the place) plus most supposedly developed countries haven’t been building much social housing in the last couple of decades (which is partly why the house price inflation is insane - less state built housing means less Supply but the Demand for new living places is still roughly the same).
Neoliberalism has been exported from the US to even the most Developed nations out there and that’s definitelly screwed up the Social Safety net (also Healthcare, even in countries without a national health service, as well as in some cases the quality of Education).
Also even when things were at their best, there was always this coverage gap for the lower end of the working class: the poor were the ones helped by the social safety net and above a certain income point which was in the area of blue collar work, people could live a pretty decent life from working, but there was a segment of the working class with people having to work shit jobs, juggling multiple jobs and so one just to make ends meet and were the help from social security wasn’t enough.
Even in the best countries this gap has been made much worse by decades of Neoliberalism, both by shrinking even further down the social safety net coverage (to just the trully miserable) and because on the upside income growth didn’t keep up with price growth so even parts of the middle class now have to work shit jobs and count their pennies to the end of the month.
Imagine not working and still being able to survive.
Looks like the slaves are getting upitty again
I think about this a lot. We have essentially, purely through accident tbh, created a society that we are evolutionary unprepared to live in. So much of our typical day to day is actually horrible for our bodies and often antithetical to their good function.
In a strange way, it’s almost incredible. We have invented a rock that we cannot lift.
B-b-b-b greed is human nature!
Yeah, go check out how any society outside of Europe worked before colonization. Winner writes the history!
The colonists were able to easily defeat most of the natives by out-arming them. But does anybody ever stop to think about why none of these societies ever invented guns? 🤔
Eh, agreed except it’s no accident. A small group of people have managed to convince everyone else to do all the lifting in exchange for crumbs and little green pieces of paper. We have allowed ourselves to become our own worst enemy rather than unite and explore the stars
That’s because you don’t lift the rock, you grind it. Try waking up earlier!
(jk)
I have a friend who is probably going to become a nun, and the place where she seems likely to join is a convent which has very little contact with the outside world (it’s even on an island). It struck me that the monastic life seems like a pretty good escape from conditions that are objectively antithetical to humanity, especially if you’re someone whose faith is already a huge part of how they cope with the world.
Hell, I’d be tempted by it, if I had a compatible religious belief. Alas, I think that if I had a “vocation”[1], it would probably require me to stick around and work alongside others who are trying to build a more humane world. I can’t do much, but my sense of duty is greater than my desire to escape.
[1]: As I understand it, “vocation” has a particular meaning for Catholics. Here’s a definition I got from Google: “vocation in a religious context is how God calls you to serve Him in the world.”. “Vocation” came up a lot when my friend was discussing her plans. Despite me being hilariously far from being a Catholic, the concept resonated with me — perhaps because I’d loosely describe myself as an agnostic theist. I don’t believe in a God, per se, but the sense of duty I feel to things like Truth, Justice, Beauty etc. (all of which I feel the need to capitalise) — things which a more religious person might just call “God”.
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Competition is good for a lot of things, but it also becomes a day-to-day race to the bottom that rewards whoever is willing to sacrifice more of their life for the sake of their job than others.
The logical consequence is exactly this: we back ourselves into an increasingly uncomfortable corner that leaves less room for living than we could easily enjoy with our current technology.
Competition is essential in almost all (if not just all) human interaction, as its what pushes us to better ourselves and our species. healthy competition has rules in place that all parties know, and if someone is hurt or confused the competition is stopped to assess and adjust if needed, like sports n shit. We forgot to add that to the economy, whoops
No it’s not, people naturally wants to do better each day by themselves, for people they love and care.
Actually capitalist competition hinder progress, by not allowing humanity to have a goal other than profit
So you just didn’t read my comment or what
I think the commenter is focusing on the idea of ‘competition for what?’. ‘Better ourselves’ how, and for what purpose? I struggle with this myself, specifically in terms of motivating myself at work. i.e. What is the goal of all this (our working society, at large, not just my role as a cog).
But they’re better at lefting than you and they really need you to know it!
It’s only unpopular for the 1% extracting wealth from the 99%
Sort of, but there really are huge swaths of Americans that grew up learning about “work ethic,” putting in those extra hours, etc… I still struggle to turn it off sometimes myself. And then have to learn over and over and over again that “put in extra unpaid work and it’ll pay off” is horseshit every single fucking time and I’m a fucking idiot.
I mean, historically, the majority of humans were meant die shortly after being born, with women dying in childbirth, and men dying young in wars. Those that lived those parts may have died from malnutrition or diseases/injuries today that are annoyances instead of being fatal.
With current use of antibiotics in farming; disease and injury will soon be very fatal again. At least we can hope for a reset of the infinite growth issue.
The world did indeed used to be a brutal place. I guess I’m trying to understand what conclusion you’re trying to draw.
The OP picture says “humans were never meant to be” something. That language suggests that either we’re biologically designed to be something else (which I don’t think that person was saying) or that human society was designed to support something better that is less anxious or depressed. I’m pointing out (not too seriously) that that isn’t the case either and that prior human societies were actually “designed” to be far far worse.
Realistically no one designed anything, so I’m having a lighthearted poke at the premise of OP’s picture.
I’ve only gotten one minute into the video and already it’s hit me with truth.
I’m a sahm, used to work in manufacturing. I enjoy keeping house, …mostly. The beginning of the video it’s stated in the stone age, people would usually have one day of heavy work, followed by a day of less work.
When I’m left to my own devices on planning and keeping house, this is exactly how my days go. I clean like hell for one day or do an outdoor project, and the next, I just do the bare minimum, maybe a load of dishes and a meal that requires more effort, but nothing else. I thought it was just part of my neurodivergencies. But I really do enjoy working in this manner. I actually get to enjoy the fruits of my labor for a minute.
Maybe thats what humans are missing, basking in a job well done is important to keep us motivated imo
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There are actual differences in the brain and it’s not about capitalism.
Humans used to have a much more direct connection between what they did and their survival. Gather enough food and you won’t starve. Keep an eye out for other tribes/clans/families competing for the same resources and you don’t get killed. Processing TPS reports all day doesn’t seem like it does much of anything even though it gives you money. We’ve lost the connection and our brains can’t handle it.
So modern life is simulating an impending death scenario for the brain. All the time.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Like the panic that occurs when layoffs happen.
If your work isn’t mentally stimulating, then get another job that is.
If you’re being complacent then that’s up to you.
I flat out tell my employer to automatise the monkey work because I’m not doing it adequately.
If you want me to perform, make the work release dopamine etc when I competitively complete it.
This would be terribly unpopular on LinkedIn.
Gotta keep up that 24-7 365 grindset.
Especially in USA
Humanw weren’t “meant” for anything. Your particular sub-brand of cell clumps just failed to go extinct fast enough, so now here you are.
So true! If you are too depressed to have any offspring you simply quit the game of evolutin and the world goes on. Delicious, delicious nihilism. Keep scrolling ;)
Hey, not thinking you’re railroaded by some higher power into having kids or whatever else is not nihilism. You just do what you wanna do, man, nature and fake deities can’t stop you.
But if that’s nihilism and you’re cool with it, nature can’t stop you from doing that, either.
Accepting that there is no meaning of life or that no one is ment for anything is pretty nihilistic. But that is OK, I have nothing against nihilism.
Back to your point, reproducing should be everyone’s concise choice. Going “quietly into th night”, choosing extinction, being selected out by evolution has always been an option. Just becouse trillions of your ancestors, dating back to single celled organisms reproduced doesn’t mean you have to.
Putting all tomfuckery aside, depression and extreme anxiety is likely lowering human diversity and we don’t even know how dire this will be. Humanity as a whole will probably adapt to this environment, as people too susceptible will have no kids. I did come close to removing my self from the game my self twice. Got lucky; got some good medication; pull my self out of that mass. Though I got old and somewhat infertile, almost missed my window. When you thinkig about stepping in front of a train, you don’t think about having kids. That doesn’t mean you won’t change your mind later.
But you should make your own decisions. You can read the opinions of internet randos like me, but the decision will always be yours.
I never said there is no meaning to life. I said humans aren’t “meant” to do anything.
There’s tons of meaning to life. You just get to choose what it is. There is no single unified thing you’re naturally “designed” to do. If your goal in life is to fold a million paper planes and throw them all off a cliff then go nuts. If it is 2.1 kids then go nuts, too.
Hey, I’m glad you got the help you needed. That’s good. That’s meaningful. That meant something. To you, almost certainly to the people in your life that care about you. Very likely to the people who helped you. Helping others IS a very popular meaning people get from life.
That’s the stuff that’s worth caring about, in my book. Couldn’t be further from nihilism.
Got a bit intense in the “maybe people should take more time off” thread, but hey. It’s true.
Good talk MudMan. Sorry that I dumped this on you! I have these episodes sometimes. You are a wonderful person.
Dedicating your life throwing paper planes down a cliff sounds very nihilistic though… Agree to disagree?
Agreed.
I think you’re agreeing with the premise without realizing it. We weren’t meant to have the norms and expectations that society places on us to just survive. We’re not expected to just retain homeostasis and survival, part of that has been predicated on your “personal productivity” towards the systems that we live under. Access to community and group resources is something we’re made to seek out, but it’s been blocked behind paywalls and monetary requirements effectively.
No, I’m not.
We’re not expected by whom? Weren’t meant by whom?
Who’s doing the meaning and the expecting and the making?
Even beyond the weird metaphysical and iusnaturalist implications, this train of thought is how you end up with people drinking raw water and eating just boiled meat. We weren’t “made” to seek out community any more than we were “made” to not have antibiotics or die from appendicitis. Stop it.
No, I’m not.
👍 my bad sorry
We’re not expected by whom? Weren’t meant by whom?
Not sure what you mean here, to me I’m interpreting this as I was implying some kind of intelligent or intentional design which I think is a misunderstanding of most of the conversations in these comments
I don’t say “meant” as in there was an intent behind the design, neither did the original post. “Meant” as in what something was adapted for, like wild animals being “meant” to live in their habitat and not in a cage. Their biology and psychology was most suitable for their own habitat and moving them out of it is distressing just as the original post was illustrating. Our bodies weren’t optimized for this environment and it causes some distress in some regards. It’s kind of a neutral statement expressing dissatisfaction that our needs aren’t being met by our environment
This isn’t my field, but I remember a lot of these convos during Covid about the parallels of zoochosis and what people were feeling at the time, seems similar to the original discussion
Just thought it was interesting and semi-related
Even beyond the weird metaphysical and iusnaturalist implications, this train of thought is how you end up with people drinking raw water and eating just boiled meat. We weren’t “made” to seek out community any more than we were “made” to not have antibiotics or die from appendicitis.
You lost me here sorry, dunno how we got to raw milk or appendicitis. Obviously these are bad things, but I don’t think we were trying to connect every societal ill to this hot take on twitter.
Stop it.
didn’t know I was doing anything sorry bro 😭
Yeah, sure. It’s not that I care that much about it, it’s just a pet peeve of mine.
There’s this overlap between conservative, traditionalist takes on how things are “meant” to work, as per some intended design and a new-agey, lovey-dovey take on the same thing diguised as progressivism that hides the same restricting, prescriptive attitudes behind a façade of ecologism or pseudoscience.
I find it annoying. Can’t help it. Don’t really want to, either.
Incidentally Dr. Wilkins there is a ringing all the alarms on that front so badly I want to go find a firehose.
Humans weren’t “meant” for anything.
Hi, it’s me, the creator. Your purpose is to create entertaining content, but your output has been slipping lately. You live in a simulation created by my multiversal corporation, which didn’t meet growth expectations this cycle, so we’ll be making some cuts to your simulation’s fidelity — just a few fingers and toes for now. Try refocusing your civilization on pumping out Boss Baby movies (they’re very popular here!) and we can talk again in 172 of your years.
This is how I know you don’t exist.
I’ve been delightful.
I’m depressed if I’m not
Yeah there’s something to that. Like I feel as though we should always be doing stuff but not what it is that we’re currently doing?
Like, we should be waking up and having tea with our neighbors or helping out in our communities and stuff … perhaps just building, planting, fixing things that we’d like? I don’t feel as though we should be fighting deadlines constantly.
I’m so tired of working. I just want to live modestly in a bought off house but the ever inflating cost of living will make it an impossible dream.
Nancy Birtwhistle has some great books that can help a bit with the cost of living. They include recipes for your own cleaning products and toiletries. It’s only a few £s here and there but they start to add up into some real savings, plus you get the benefit of knowing exactly what’s in your products, peace of mind from potential health effects, as it’s all vinegars, citric acids, and alcohols instead of (to the layman) mystery chemicals.
And to save even more money they are available on the high seas, although she’s put considerable care and attention into them so I’ve purchased the real things. But for getting started, they are available is all I’m saying.
Obviously that doesn’t help with buying a house or anything as they’re crazy prices everywhere but it’ll save you on your shopping bills each week at least.
I retired from my software developer job right before COVID hit, bought a very small (and very inexpensive) fixer-upper house for cash, and started driving a school bus. I make like 1/5 as much as I used to and I’m as happy as I’ve ever been in my life. I work less than five hours a day and I have a big break between my morning and afternoon runs so I can ride my bike, have a leisurely lunch and a nice nap in the middle of my day. If the school board would just take my suggestion to send all the middle-schoolers to the Antarctic for three years, my life would be perfect.
I’m in a similar job but I only bought my house about 2 years ago. The mortgage is ridiculously high even for my salary. If things are already tough for me, I’d hate to think how the average person can afford basic necessities. Good on you for being able to buy a cheap house though, I wish that was an option for me.
Look at any other mammals our size.
Specifically other primates and great apes.
They lounge in heards and eat plants.
Some of them fart 100s litres every single day. Fucking legends.
Once saw a gorilla shit a log as big as my head and then fling it ~30ft into a window that a family was viewing it from
Absolute legends
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Is this your first day on the internet?
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I often find this aggravating, but in some cases, I think that stating an opinion as being unpopular is a defence mechanism that may stem from previous responses to said opinion.
On the topic of everyone being busy, for example, a friend once shared a similar opinion at work and their colleagues jumped on that opinion and argued against it in a manner that was effectively dick-measuring about how tired and burnt out they are, but how they’re going to take on more work nonetheless. It was an especially toxic work environment, but it’s not abnormal to find people who seem desperate to sacrifice themselves on the altar of capitalism.
I speculate that some of this bizarre defense of hyper productivity arises from people who are forced to work that way for so long that they start to think of it as a thing they choose to do. My friend was fortunate enough that he was able to quit his job to stay home with his newborn child, but far too many people don’t have that opportunity. I wonder if some of the men who mocked him for quitting the job did so because they wish they had been able to do the same thing, but given that that ship had long since sailed, pretending that they chose to stay at that shitty job helped them to weather the stress.
This is all a long-winded way of saying that I sympathise with people who hedge their beliefs with saying an opinion is “unpopular”. I think that sometimes, it’s a way of saying “this is something I believe, but I’m not actively trying to change your mind about it”. There may also be an element of someone hoping that people will say “idk what you mean, that’s not an unpopular opinion”, in search of validation. That’s annoying, but I’m sympathetic towards someone fishing for validation in this topic, at the very least.
But then how is someone supposed to argue about how how the sky is red sometimes?
Got 'em.
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Those fuckers want an eight day week.
I’m all for it if we get half of them off.
LinkedIn somehow has the world’s worst takes. Actually filled with leaded boomers.
