Disturbing visuals of Hamas parading a naked and battered body of a woman on the streets of Israel have emerged. Another woman confirmed that it was her sister, a German citizen, seen in the video.
As the Israel-Gaza conflict rages, disturbing visuals of fighters of the Palestinian armed group Hamas parading a naked and battered body of a woman through the streets of Israel in the back of a pickup truck have emerged.
According to videos that surfaced on social media, a screaming crowd surrounds the Hamas’ vehicle, echoing their cries and spitting on the woman’s body.
Hamas initially claimed that the body belonged to a female Israeli soldier, according to news.com.au. However, Adi Louk confirmed on X that the woman seen in the video was her sister, Shani Louk, a German citizen and a tattoo artist, reported the New York Post.
Shani Louk’s mother, in a video message posted by Visegrad 24 on X, confirmed her daughter’s identity and appealed to people for more information regarding her whereabouts.
Hamas are barbaric terrorists
And so is Israel. Two terrorist groups throwing bombs to each other, without giving a heck about their own citizens. 🤷🏻♂️
Israel is an apartheid state leveraging state violence. They hold the cards and they shuffled the deck.
Well, Israel is literally surrounded by countries who want to destroy them and wipe them off the face of the earth for religious reasons. I understand their anxiety.
That being said, Israel is not innocent.
Are you seriously comparing a group that openly targets civilians, hiding in civilian infrastructure, with a group that retaliates? Good luck coming up with a response that matches your standards when your country is under a rocket barrage. The double standards people develop when sitting in the safety of their home and regurgitating biased news… It’s thanks to people like you that this conflict thrives, because extremists from both sides use the lies you spread to their advantage.
That’s exactly what they are doing.
They hold Israel to an invented standard that they apply to no other nation.
There was a brief, shining moment after 9/11 when the entire world was united against terrorism. But the critics of Israel were so determined to frame Israel as the bad guys that they invented a meaningless phrase “state terrorism” which just meant “anything that Israel does”. And they pretended that that was the moral equal to the actual terrorism of the Palestinians, deliberately targeting children and other innocents.
Israel builds a fence to keep out suicide bombers. They scream “apartheid!”
Israel bulldozes a vacated house that was used as a terrorist bomb-making factory. They scream “genocide!”
The problem with Israel’s critics is that since they damn Israel for any and every action, they have made their voices utterly useless.
re you seriously comparing a group that openly targets civilians, hiding in civilian infrastructure, with a group that retaliates?
Israel oppresses Palestinians, Hamas retaliates and Israel retaliates against their retaliation, rinse and repeat. The only ones with the power to change this dynamic are Israel and they’re not doing that.
They’ve offered these people peaceful coexistance and self-governance for more than half a century.
Palestinians have walked away from every peace talk and turned to terrorism.
The only ones with power to change the dynamic are the Palestinians.
Palestinians have walked away from every peace talk and turned to terrorism.
Because every peace talk has been “We’re gonna offer you a fraction of your stuff and you should be happy about it”. The Israeli position is that Palestine should be happy with breadcrumbs, and Palestinians are understandably not happy about that. Israel hasn’t changed its position, and has actually gotten worse, hence terrorism.
Not at all. Israel’s offers of peace have been objectively the most generous terms in history.
None of them involved pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank, that’s for sure. When your peace offers practically don’t even include independence, it’s hard to take them seriously. And don’t get me started about East Jerusalem.
They learned from the “best”, irgun, lehi, etc…
They are oppressed people striking back against generations of brutality.
No, they are a proxy war by Iran to push back from normalized relationships between the Saudis and Israel in a time when Iran is starting to feel internal pressure to “catch up” to the rest of the world. I feel for the people there, but this is messier and more disgusting than a simple retaliation.
To be fair, there’s been brutality and retaliation in the region since the Paleolithic, at this point everyone can claim to be “just pushing back” against some era of oppression.
Kind of a fertile ground for proxy wars.
No amount of oppression justifies raping civilians.
If only you cried for the oppressed as much as you cry for the oppressor.
There were two ‘Reigns of Terror,’ if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the ‘horrors’ of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break?
What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror–that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
Mark Twain
How the fuck do you know they don’t?
The sign of a campist, they can’t conceive of the idea that an act itself is what makes the action good or bad, so they assume nobody else can either, and therefore only call out bad actions selectively for debate advantage.
Power dynamics establish only if a motivation for bad actions is built into the systems of local governance. Not if those actions are bad.
I don’t care how oppressed the folks in Gaza are, the rape and murder of civilians is not suddenly ok because some Bougeyevik with a soviet iconography fetishized picrew pfp on twitter says they had it coming for being le evil settlers.
Nevermind how the settler shit hasn’t been a relevant issue for Gaza’s situation since the early 2000s. The half of Palestine that actually has to deal with what all the hammer and sickle profiles justify permitting mass rape and slaughter with is completely separate from where this shitstorm erupted from.
I did look through their Lemmy posts but arguably its not the full story I’ll admit.
The act with no context committed in a void is terrible, but we’re not talkimg about theoretical ethics, everything has context and that context can change everything. You probably wouldn’t be so angry at videos of resistance fighters raping and murdering Nazis and collaborators, why? Because of the context.
Violence against oppression is not something that can or should be condemned by those who have never faced that oppression.
Also hate to break it to you the settlers will be an issue for as long as they are there. Look at Northern Ireland, it’s been 400 years and the settlers there are still an issue. Look at America, it’s been 300 years and the settlers there are still causing issues for the indigenous people.
Imagine comparing civilians and children to fucking Nazis and Nazi collaborators. Particularly Israeli civilians and children given the impetus behind how Israel was ultimately recognized to begin with.
I picked an example that I knew the context would be almost universally thought of as morally good even though the act in it’s self is indefensible.
I’m not comparing those two either, the IDF exists and makes a great comparison against other fascist state’s armies. French resistance fighters also definitely killed innocent civilians and children so still makes a decent comparison since society views violent resistance against certain oppressors even with civilian casualties as okay and some as terrorism.
Also Imagine being so braindead that thinking being against fascist states means you are antisemitic.
I wonder what oppression Afghani men are fighting today.
I see so much support for the Hamas here in Lemmy. And I dont know why. I dont really no much about middle east conflict but everything I’ve ever heard about the Hamas was terrible and crule. Maybe its Propaganda but then things like this happens. Even IF it was a Soldier and not just a civillian this is nothing a Regime which is worth supporting does. This is just wrong.
EDIT: Typo
I haven’t seen anyone supporting Hamas as much as I’ve seen people opposing Israel.
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but no one wants to legitimize violence as a method for achieving political objectives.
Unless they’re going on about riots being the voice of the unheard…
Terrorism is violence towards people, riots are violence towards property, that’s a hell of a leap to try to equivocate the two
One becomes the other pretty frequently and pretty easily.
See May 28, 2020 in Minneapolis where, connected to the ongoing protests Montez Terriel Lee burned down Max It Pawn Shop. There’s literally video footage of him pouring the accelerant, lighting it, and standing outside the burning building saying something to the effect of “Fuck this place. We’re gonna burn this shit down.”. Folks like you basically cheered the footage on social media.
It was almost two months later before we found out the building wasn’t empty when he burned it down, when authorities found a body in the rubble. ME said he died from thermal injury and smoke inhalation, aka he was burned to death. Which is a horrible way to go. So “the voice of the unheard” delivered the message “Were gonna burn this shit down” over a human barbecue.
Weird time to bring up the “BLM burned down whole cities, and antifa killed my dog” boogymam, but…okay?
“When our time comes, we will make no excuses for the terror”
The grievences of the Palestinians are genuine, but no one wants to legitimize violence as a method for achieving political objectives.
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD DO? DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR SHITTY AND USELESS IDEAS?
fuck you, scum of the earth
The big reason is not really justification to support Hamas, but Israel has absolutely not been the good guys in this situation. We all should support Palestine in the face of Israel treating them so badly.
Hamas is a Palestinian group that is fighting them, which is why the anti-Israel folks will often support that. Unfortunately with news like this (and this isn’t the first or the last of it) it’s hard to support either side.
For what it’s worth, I think you can support Palestine without supporting Hamas. But it’s pretty easy for us to make judgment when it’s not our homes and families being harmed.
Hamas is a Palestinian group that is fighting them, which is why the anti-Israel folks will often support that.
Hamas also came into being because of Israel supporting it over secular (communist) resistance groups.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
I see very very little actual support of Hamas so far but a TON of people complaining about seeing support of Hamas. I browse “everything” in Sync for Lemmy on Android if that helps. There more posts complaining about posts than actual problem posts. Hamas is inhumane; Israel is inhumane. Both things can be true at the same time.
I have seen pretty radical stuff from news@hexbear.net. Like, holy moly. I think it was on All, but maybe I accidentally subscribed to it. Saying stuff like “Death to America” and “Death to Israel” seems to get upvotes over there.
I get it, Israel’s illegal settlements and occupation of Gaza make it pretty easy for radical groups to gain followers. But that doesn’t mean that shooting at ordinary people is going to fix anything. Sure, Palestine has a right to defend itself. But shooting up a festival hardly qualifies as this.
Equally relevant, putting aside Israel’s settlements which we know to be illegal, the number of civilians dying in Gaza is totally unacceptable. Air strikes might look less horrific than men with guns, but they are really equally horrific, killing huge numbers of civilians. These lives are not worth less in any way.
I think this order of thoughts is appropriate:
- It is awful that civilians are dying, no matter where they live
- Unjust violence is taking place in Israel and in Gaza
- This doesn’t come out of the blue. Current conditions are a violation of international law by Israel and are a breeding ground for radicalisation. Israel has many more cards in their hands to turn this around than Palestine has.
- Can we please end this endless cycle of violence and suffering?
I think lemmy.world defederated from the instances where you would see those posts. My understanding is that even if you are browsing “everything” you still won’t see those instances. There’s places to check who defederated what n’such.
Nah political memes has a hard on for the terrorists right now
New to this, so since my account was created on lemmy.world I’m not seeing them? I definitely see posts from lemmy.ml that everyone is claiming upset about. I haven’t seen anything from hexbear that I know of though which is the other name being thrown around. But others with accounts created on other instances may see them in their feed, they are not necessarily seeking them out to find reasons to be upset. I think that makes sense.
Still appears disproportionately to be people complaining about support as opposed to support itself.
I’m on lemmy.world and I’ve seen at least one from Hexbear
You’re on lemm.ee, lemmy.world defederated from hexbear a while ago
For me it’s actually the other Way around. I use Jerboa but this should not make difference or does it?. This is quite interesting.
Bro you must not have been reading the political Lemmy’s Havent you? Even political memes has a hard on for the terrorists. What else is new, tomorrow they will reveal themselves to be supporters of antisemitism?
Take one people and take their homes away, take another and call them “the chosen people or Judea” and tell them they can take the homes of the other people.
Now one group has been told by the “world” that this place is theirs because God said so.
The other is literally kicked outta their homes and is told it’s their fault. Also they’re walled in and can’t leave… and then they’re told they’re gonna get fucked unless they leave… but they can’t leave…
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I think it’s a “sides” thing. It’s mentally easy.
I think this story should be engaged with some nuance: I for example think Hamas is evil. But that does not mean I support Israel. Israel denies Palestinians their basic human rights, kills innocent people, and displaces people from their homes. It places palestinians as second class citizens.
They would be doing this whether or not there was a villain to oppose them, and they do it both when Hamas attacks and when they don’t. They have an absurd amount of wealth and power. They have a military that absolutely crushes people when they do their thing, both in “peace” time and at war. The evil that Israel is capable of is simply not accessible to the likes of Hamas.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I don’t see any support for Hamas.
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I dont really no much about middle east conflict but[…]
There it is.
Great, another terrorist supporter
funny that knowing something about this makes you a ‘terrorist supporter’
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Revolutionary groups are almost always operating from a severe disadvantage. They lack the resources of the regime that oppresses them.
You should ask yourself why revolutionaries feel that extremism is the solution. Is it maybe because peaceful protest leads to Zionist forces opening fire on unarmed civilians? Maybe it’s because losses in this drawn out conflict have disproportionately affected Palestinians?
And that’s why the have to humiliate and torture a captured Soldier? Wait it wasn’t even a Soldier! Nothing, I repeat NOTHING(!) can justify such an action.
War is terrible. I don’t support the allied troops in WWII raping and murdering Berlin women en masse or sending queer concentration camp victims straight to prison for being queer. Nothing can justify such actions. Does that mean the Nazis should not have been fought and defeated? Certainly not.
Nothing justifies it, but desperation explains it.
murdering civilians en masse and then desecrating their corpses seems like a strange approach to recruiting people to your cause.
Its almost as though Hamas is a terrorist organisation or something
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Delulu is strong with this one.
Recruiting Middle-Eastern Muslims to your cause, with your cause being Jihadist and genocidal, is something most consistent with this approach.
Have you seen these recent videos with crowds in Gaza cheering over all those bodies and yelling “Allahu akbar”, “Khaybar” and such things?
I mean, the very fact that they are sharing these naturally and openly should inform you about that society (if you knew nothing about it before, that is, cause what I’m trying to communicate is obvious for anybody knowing anything about West Asia).
It is interesting that similar sentiments aren’t leveled against Israeli police & military when they slaughter innocent people.
It would be weird and suspicious if I did that right?
“Well, Israel would probably have more people on their side if they didn’t kill thousands of innocent people” (which they have done)
It’s like you can use this line against whoever you don’t like to justify not liking them.
My sincere question is, what do you actually want the outcome to be? It is my opinion that if Hamas stopped going to war completely, Israel would continue to oppress Palestinians by denying them rights, displacing them from their homes, and keeping them as second class citizens on the basis of race.
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I’m sure Israel made some real changes because of these slaps on the wrist.
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Thank goodness for those resolutions! Amirite or amirite?
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I’m aware plenty of people condemn Israel for good reason, but what I don’t hear is the snide “you’ll never get anyone on your side like that”. It’s a sentiment that black people have been hearing since the 60’s, and is more commonly leveled against “underdogs” that are fighting an establishment.
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Multiple things can be bad at the same time. It is also possible to fight without being barbaric.
It is also possible to fight without being barbaric.
Easy to say when you don’t have white phosphorus raining down on your kids’ school…
You’re woefully ignorant to the world around you if you think they did this for sympathy.
If sympathy hasn’t worked up until now, what do you think would have to change in order to make it work? Lol.
But yeah, keep parroting those upvoted reddit talking points. You fit in!
Ah yes, because peaceful protest worked so well: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition
So, to be clear, you are condoning the murder en masse of unarmed israeli civilians?
It’s possible for logical people to condemn the violence from both the Israeli military and Hamas, you know
But @zerfuffle@lemmy.ml hasn’t condemned them. In fact they seem to be condoning them. If you were reading this thread with a logical mind you would have noticed that
An eye for an eye is a commandment in the Book of Exodus. What do you propose Gazans should do instead?
It was a yes or no question. Please answer
Incredibly disgusting to see.
The comments from all the leftists here explicitly supporting Hamas terrorism against a legitimate state? Or the ones in favor of antisemitism? Or the ones requesting for LITERAL Israel genocide? Because yeah that shit is disgusting
Israel is a fake nazi colonizer state
Israel must be dismantled and the people of Palestine freed
Hamas fighters
They’re terrorists. Hamas is the richest terrorist organization in the world. Their headquarters are in Qatar, which pulls the strings and spreading hate against Jewish people (not just Israel). Don’t believe me? Check it out for yourself. One of Hamas’ goals is to exterminate the Jewish people all over the world!
They don’t give a shit about Palestinian people. It’s not about that at all.
As far as I know their biggest backers are Iran. Is that not still the case? Legitimate question here.
I think “exterminating Jewish people all over the world” is hyperbolic, but their original 1988 charter does specifically call for the complete destruction of the Israeli state and the formation of Palestine via holy war. It’s 100% an anti-semitic document, and debatably genocidal. An attempt to kill an ethnic group doesn’t need to be world-wide to be genocidal.
Their new 2017 charter is fair bit more moderate, and calls for the 1967 borders. Whether the new document is about PR or if they’ve actually become more moderate is a question that is being answered by their treatment of civilians now, imho.
Iran also backs Hamas and other terror organizations in the middle east. But it’s not possible to ignore that Qatar gives them shelter. Everybody knows about the Iranian government, but Qatar is not mentioned enough in these cases. I only saw posts about Qatar’s inner stuff, and it was mostly because they hosted the soccer events recently.
I think “exterminating Jewish people all over the world” is hyperbolic, but their original 1988 charter does specifically call for the complete destruction of the Israeli state and the formation of Palestine via holy war. It’s 100% an anti-semitic document, and debatably genocidal. An attempt to kill an ethnic group doesn’t need to be world-wide to be genocidal.
removed de-colonization is destroying the colonizer state
Human beings creating hell on earth. Still.
Business as usual.
Blinded by our own power, we covet even more power a way or another to compensate for our own perceived vulnerability.
Just as a little reality check for all Hamas “fans” out here which are actually comparing them to Israel. The Hamas is founded on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are a fairytale full of antisemitism and proven, false statements about Jews and how they are responsible for every bad thing that happens during the centuries and their diabolical plot for world domination (of course one of the favorite lecture of the Nazis)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
Those idiots are really believing this fairytale and they use it to justify the murder of innocent people and Jews in general. So the next time you step in in defense of the Hamas or when you compare them to Israel, keep in mind that they are doing this because they believe in some antisemitic fairytale written by a crazy Russian back in the old days…they are basically Scientology only more degenerated and more violent.
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Hey, how come Egypt and Jordan won’t accept Palestinians settlers?
Also cute af that you think Israelis are white nationalists. The actual bigot here might be you homie.
I never said they were ‘white nationalists.’ Zionism, by definition, is religious nationalism though. Jews, on average, are whiter than Arabs. It is another example of whites getting their way while browns get fucked.
Hey, how come Egypt and Jordan won’t accept Palestinians settlers?
You tell me.
The actual bigot here might be you homie.
Might want to leave the personal insults at home. They just make your argument look weak.
Cool story bruh
They claimed it was the body of an IDF soldier!
Look at her. She’s clearly not a soldier. She’s small and slight. Female soldiers are going to have a lot more muscle. She’s also a tattoo artist from fucking Germany she is going to have a different accent, language, reaction, and understanding of the situation. The soldier will know why and how to wait for rescue. This woman is probably completely disoriented and has no idea what her options are.
Israel has a requirement for all citizens to serve a term in the IDF. Are you implying that there are no small slight Israeli citizens? I’ve met some women who served in the IDF, and they aren’t necessarily any larger than usual. The actions aren’t good, but the mistake wouldn’t be that hard to make.
Well when you killed her and she wasn’t in a military uniform, that might clue you in, no?
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Yeah, because military personnel never take off their uniforms…
And when they do and aren’t in active duty, they shouldn’t be shot dead on sight. Much less fleeing at a music festival.
And when they do and aren’t in active duty, they shouldn’t be shot dead on sight.
I would argue no one should ideally. We don’t live in an ideal world. I wish we did. I wish Palestinians weren’t killed for nothing. I wish Israelis weren’t killed for the shit their government does. That’s not our world though.
When Israel bombs hospitals they kill a lot of people who are not wearing military uniforms.
The scale of the violence perpetrated by Israel is not comparable to that committed by Palestine.
But it’s irrelevant. I don’t support either side, both have done absolutely horrendous things.
None of the pieces of shit on the one side of this “war” wear uniforms. A favorite tactic of these kind of scum is to hide amongst and wear the same clothing as civilians so that it isn’t possible to take them out without collateral damage and then that can be used as propaganda.
The term “human shield” comes to mind.
And all of those clearly marked medics and press members getting killed by IDF soldiers?
Do you think those soldiers gave a shit what kind of clothes they were wearing? They’ve been taught that they’re all subhuman. Uniform or not. They murder children for throwing ROCKS AT THEM. CHILDREN.
Also, this is a literal open-air prison. How do you organize a standing army, with uniforms, etc. That’s not how it works. You can’t oppress a population (on their own land) and commit genocide for a century and not expect insurgency. You don’t get armed forces, Israel would never fucking allow that. So yes, they’re in “civilian clothing.”
You can make all of the excuses you want for your support of apartheid.
At the end of the day, it’s not a matter of opinion, but of fact that Israel has spent generations terrorizing Palestine.
Foind Another common terrorism apologist
Foind
most literate liberal
Right. It’s only ok to kill civilians when they’re clearly marked medics and clearly marked press. With goddamn sniper rifles. Like they’re playing a fucking video game.
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Okay well there may well be small and slight female IDF soldiers. I don’t know if they’d find themselves on the front lines as I’m not familiar with IDF deployment. I also don’t know if they’d be indistinguishable from a tattoo artist. Depends on the tattoo artist I guess.
She probably has a German accent and she doesn’t speak Hebrew or Arabic. But I suppose if she were in shock you wouldn’t be able to tell and if she were dead on arrival you wouldn’t be able to tell.
Wait, it’s she alive? The wording in the article makes it sound like she’s dead.
She’s dead.
😟
I don’t know if we know :(
There’s a lot of missing context it would be weird to jump to conclusions. War makes fighters in an instant, she may not have been an idf soldier but if she fought back they might not make that distinction, we simply don’t know.
It’s appalling either way as most acts and atrocities of war tend to be.
She might have fought back but, and this is speculation, she probably didn’t deck herself out in body armor, radio equipment, and an Uzi.
Straight up retarded take.
I’m sure those children who were murdered for throwing rocks at IDF soldiers weren’t decked out either…
But you know who always is? All of the clearly marked medics and press people the IDF murders.
Doesn’t seem to fucking matter, does it?
I just want to make sure I understand your point.
The IDF kills kids with rocks. So therefore Hamas is justified in killing a random German?
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That’s my point, anything at this point is speculation. What isn’t is that Israel is 100% using it for sympathy because declaring war on your open air concentration camp who doesn’t have a standing army looks real fucking bad.
Your logic would allow a rapist to claim self defense because his victim struggled against being pinned to the wall for the act.
Not at all, if you can point to an excuse for the behavior or acceptance of it I’d love to see it.
I only know some basics of the whole situation, but I really don’t get this attack. Israel is a modern Westernized nation and enjoys STRONG support, financial and military, from many/most other Western developed nations. They have modern weapons of just about all types.
Israel is accused of some awful shit and stealing peoples homes. From what I can see they’re probably guilty of this.But I don’t understand how killing a bunch of civilians at a rave is going to overall help the cause. It seems to me like a. it’d give your better-armed adversary an excuse to smack you down once and for all, and b. a good way to make the rest of the world feel like they shouldn’t be stopped in doing so (and if anything, helped in their efforts).
So what is the goal? Is this just an expression of pent up anger? Because it seems a poor strategy to me.
not trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but the main Reason Hamas are in Power is because Israelis and Palestinians hate each other.
If the Israelis stop brutalizing the palestinians, Support for Hamas will dwindle. So it is actually in Hamas’ best Interest to agitate Israel.
Also: yes, a mixture of pent-up anger and religious zeal to “exterminate” a “heretic people”.
Gladly most muslims selectively do not follow the parts of the Quran which advocate violence, but it is definitely in there. Islamic extremists are basically literal interpreters of certain parts of the book, mostly those written by Muhammad himself, who was a warrior/aristocrat LARP’ing as a spiritual guru.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
"Subsequent to obtaining a divine instruction to battle the polytheists, Muhammad dispatched his followers to perform raids on the Quraysh’s trading caravans. Certain Meccan followers of his were reluctant to partake, as it would mean attacking their own tribespeople. This vexed Muhammad, resulting in the revelation of Quran verse 2:216, among others, which asserts that fighting is good and has been made obligatory for them. After several months of failures, Muhammad managed to achieve his first successful raid, at Nakhla, during a month that the pagans forbade themselves from shedding blood. When the bountiful plunder was being brought back to him in Medina, Muhammad was met with censure from the locals. He contended that his followers had misconstrued his command, and he postponed taking his one-fifth portion of the spoil until a verse was ultimately revealed, legitimizing the attack.
In the early stages of his time in Medina, Muhammad was optimistic that the Jewish people would acknowledge him as a Prophet and strove to obtain converts from their community. However, his efforts were unsuccessful and even faced ridicule, as the Jews perceived inconsistencies between the Quran and their own scriptures. Consequently, the Quran accused the Jews of hiding and modifying parts of their holy texts. The Jewish criticism and refusal presented a danger to his prophetic claims, and, as a result, the views of Muhammad and the Quran towards them worsened. This then led to the reorientation of the Muslim prayer direction, the qibla, from Jerusalem to the Kaaba. Following the Battle of Badr, Muhammad revealed his intention to expel the Jews from the land. Once the ransom arrangements for the Meccan captives were finalized, he initiated a siege on the Banu Qaynuqa, regarded as the weakest and wealthiest of Medina’s three main Jewish tribes."
These terrorists wouldn’t hesitate to slit your throat if you didn’t pledge allegiance to Muhammad, and even if you did they’d probably still murder you. And that’s why they all need to be sent promptly back to Allah to check in, permanently. It’s really sad that some of their normal/moderate compatriots will be joining them, but unfortunately, that’s their whole plan. Use the palestinian people as a gigantic group of hostages which they can slowly sacrifice on their altar to Muhammed. And don’t make the mistake of turning this into a class war about “oppressed people”. Muhammed filled palaces with treasure he stole from the people he murdered.
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mod removal of this comment is bullshit censorship. they were pointing out the obvious.
Muhammed and Islam itself was born from literal desert raiders.
Okay that’s an interesting opinion. How so?
Literally the post I responded to above me?
Islam was born in Mecca, though. Desert raiding was one time that came after as an attempt to take back some of the money that was taken from them when going to Medina (most Meccan Muslims, when immigrating to Medina, were stripped off all their money and property).
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And the bible/torah calls for murdering gay people and describes god spefically ordering the Jews to kill other Jews who had built an altar on the wrong side of the Jordan. So are the political views and actions of every Israeli, every Ugandan or every American to be explained by that?
This is a strawman argument. The Jew and Christians aren’t the people in question here. But the people being talked about have been very upfront and very self proclaiming about exactly what their motives are. Their motives come from an age where everyone was using religion as the end all be all of power grabbing. But it does not change that ya this is basically the ideology of Hama’s. Jerusalem has been fought over for thousands of years. But now whether people likenitnor not Israel is a real country with a real albeit troubled government and a very and well organized western backed military. And if the militants of Palestine have to insist on claiming what does not belong to them by force? Then the reality is that they will be neutralized with finality or win the fight. The law of conquest will once again as it always does, determine the owner of Israel. Its sad for all the innocent lives caught in the middle. I think we can all agree on that.
And don’t make the mistake of turning this into a class war about “oppressed people”. Muhammed filled palaces with treasure he stole from the people he murdered.
so, there’s no oppression in Palestine now because Muhammad was rich in the year 632?
Disrespecting the dead is foolish - it does nothing but dehumanise you, and those you fight with.
In a very real way are you cursed, and have cursed those around you, for an enemy whose dead are dishonoured will grant no clemency.
Thw world was a better place during corona shutdowns.
Can we please start eating raw bats again?
I hate to tell you this bud, but this stuff was still happening all the while we were safe in our houses.
Yep, only the westernized countries were shutting down, and even then most people acted like children and didn’t follow it.
China had very strict lockdowns.
Ok? China is still a industrialized nation…that was the point.
I think China counts as westernized
No, Kenya had a strict night curfew, no school for I think 2 years, restrictions on how many people could ride in a car. I believe at one point even mask wearing everywhere in public.
I hate this stance. There’s so much good in people as well. Check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome and realise you are reading about a giant once in a lifetime terrorist attack rather than an everyday occurrence. Too many terminally online people just get a warped perception of what others are like from constant negative news and end up glorifying isolation as a result. More and more people do that while posting about doing so leads other people to do so as well.
hate to break it to you, but the Israel-Palestine thing is happening a whole lot more than once in a lifetime
…that’s not the point I was making. My point is that barbaric events like what happened in Israel on Saturday are rare and letting that colour your entire perspective on the human race is unhealthy. Someone kills 50 people headline news across all forms of media, someone saves the lives of 50 people you will probably never even know their name.
the human race does suck. capitalism is a death machine that has ruined the planet. we’re as good as dead. enjoy climate genocide and digital fascism.
Yes, curse the world because you feel powerless rather than try to do something about it.
The current system sucks, but the average human is pretty chill. Most people just want to feel safe, eat good food, and enjoy time with friends and family.
Some people are in shit situations and are easily manipulated into becoming hateful creatures, and some people in power understand this and abuse it. Systems that create these situations are the issue, and we have continuously improved systems throughout our existence. We usually change systems when they hit a threshold of hurting enough people, which is not the best strategy, but it’s how we’re wired. But it takes enough people getting pissed off and doing something about it rather than bitching and giving up.
So quit bitching and do something. Volunteer for a group that combats climate change. Find a job at a sustainable company. Advocate to friends and family why they should care and what they should do. At the very least, you can be at some peace with yourself for doing your best
Average humans are chill until they touch religions.
Nah, friend. Religion does encourage superstition and such nonsense, but it doesn’t, on average, lead to violence and hate. As mentioned above, it’s usually shit situations that make people susceptible to that stuff.
Imagine you have a family. You used to be able to support your whole family, comfortably, with your job. But over the past twenty years, things have been getting more expensive. You’ve had trouble get raises to catch up. Even worse, the company is laying people off, and you’re worried you might be next. It feels like the world is going to shit. You’re too busy with work and family to keep track of all the politics and economics to know why things are happening. You just know that things suck, and you don’t know why. So you start wondering, “what changed?” Well, there’s a lot more talk of gay people. Or you’ve been seeing women with hijabs, and you never saw that before. Maybe they’re the reason. At church, you complain about your life to your friends. They claim it’s the gays and the Muslims. They tell you there’s another church where the pastor knows what’s going on. You should go there instead. So you do, and now you’ve gone from a pretty chill, “love everyone” kind of Christianity to the “gays should burn in hell” kind of Christianity.
Honestly, beyond the different denominations, I think even within denominations, it can be almost an entirely different religion, based on the congregation and pastor/priest.
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I don’t glorify isolation! Instead I glorify the idea of wiping out all life, forever. It’s not enough to just take out the humans because something else will eventually evolve to be as dumb as we are.
But NOOO poor them, they’re only acting like this because they’re oppressed don’t you understand?
I mean, I get your sarcasm, but they literally are acting like this because of their oppression.
They don’t have a military. They’re blockaded. Their citizens are killed at will by the IDF without any repercussions. Hell, Israel is now killing reporters with impunity who try to make light of it.
Palestinians have been living under an apartheid regime perpetrated by Israel for generations, and yes, that kind of powerlessness will result in expressions of unbridled violence and rage such as this one.
And it’s never going to end.
Still a tragedy, though, no doubt. It’s always been the peasants who suffer so the rich people can have their wars.
make light of it.
Believe you mean “bring it to light” or “shed light on it”
“Make light of it” is when you suggest it is not serious
Misread the post.
Does beating a woman to death and parading her body through the streets qualify as oppressing another person?
If you’re on the side of Hamas regime, you’re on the side of the oppressor, not the oppressed.
You can both be oppressed and opress others.
Hurting people hurt people.
Shit rolls downhill.
All i am trying to say is that, sadly, being the opressed doesn’t mean you cant be an oppressor. The world is complex…
Yet you’re choosing the side of one of the oppressors… why are you choosing the oppressor that does the thing you see in that video? Do you want more of that to happen? Do you think if Hamas desecrates enough corpses the conflict will end? What is your goal?
He’s quite clearly not picking a side, he’s just acknowledging nuance
And this is the problem. You can’t even entertain a good faith discussion about this because as soon as you defend Palestine, you’re an antisemite and have nothing worth saying.
As far as the Israeli/Palestine conflict goes, Hamas are not the oppressors. The numbers of casualties speak for themselves. They can still do terrible things while being oppressed. It’s not an excuse. Fuck the people involved in this horrible crime, but we can’t act like the Israelis are the good guys in the conflict either.
If it’s true, yes.
The difference is the imbalance in power. Israel is a state sponsor of an apartheid. They are oppressing an entire nation of people in ways far more barbaric than this. (Two examples, shelling kids playing soccer on a beach or bombing hospitals, and those are fully documented and indisputable.)
It’s monstrous when a small number of terrorists do something awful, if in fact this woman was attacked in this way, but it’s not comparable to terrorism committed at a state level by a government with a modern military machine.
You should learn the difference between apartheid and an occupation. Using the wrong terms doesn’t make your argument carry more weight, it just makes you sound like an idiot.
The difference between a war and the type of fascist barbarity that Hamas is putting on display is that a war has an objective. When the objective is achieved the violence ends. With fascists like Hamas the barbarity is the objective. The kid you see in the video spitting on the corpse is a future recruit for Hamas. The kid learned this level of depraved violence is normal and right. When that kid is old enough to be a “freedom fighter” who in that Palestinian town will dare oppose Hamas knowing that their members have been indoctrinated from a young age to devalue life to this degree?
Israel’s goal is to be safe from Palestinian rocket attacks. The settlement strategy is literally from the Machiavelli’s writing. I don’t agree with it, it’s very medieval kind of thinking. But there is an ultimate goal of peace, albeit by horrible means.
The depravity you see in the video is the goal of Hamas. Maintain genocidal fervor, maintain power.
I don’t agree with it, it’s very medieval kind of thinking. But there is an ultimate goal of peace, albeit by horrible means.
Clearly, you do.
Secondly, I don’t know how any reasonable person can look at the history of Israel’s apartheid (I’m not going to use the sanitized terms you suggest) and come to the conclusion you’ve reached. The IDF is even shooting news reporters in cold blood to try and hide their actions.
The history simply doesn’t support it.
You can go ahead and use words wrong and continue using words wrong and I’ll continue to think you’re an idiot.
Do you have a special word for brutally murdering an innocent woman, stripping down her corpse, parading her dead body through the streets? What word can you come up with that will make this action acceptable?
Look at the video again. These are the guys you’re carrying water for. Do you want these things to continue? Is that why you support these barbarians? Why can’t you simply condemn Hamas as the evil fascist monsters they are?
Yet IDF murdering children who thrrew rocks at them, regularly, is A-OK. Fuck that.
Calling someone an idiot just because the other doesn’t share the same view is admirable. Keep up the good work mate, keep thinking you are morally and intellectually superior just because you have been brainwashed.
Oh and by the way I think the general community somehow disagrees with your views. And keep in mind that this community is mostly concentrated in the West, making your opinion even less popular.
Maybe a bit of self reflection could do you good!
I appreciate your perspective.
Israel is an apartheid state, and the mental gymnastics people have to do in order to not acknowledge that they’re a piece of shit would be cute if we weren’t talking about genocide.
I’m not convinced this isn’t opposition propaganda.
well i woke to every comment i made yesterday about dead civilians = bad to all being heavily downvoted. if its not brigading thats responsible, lemmy as a whole needs to seriously take a look at it self if they actually think its good that civilians were being murdered on the streets in israel
The problem is the world only now seems to care about civilians being killed. Palestinian civilians are routinely killed. So it rings a bit hollow.
well i can assure you the second i see an article about the latest massacre of palestinians, i will absolutely comment and condemn it. Maybe im a weirdo but I’m simply not cool with civilians being targeted, from anywhere.
Bit different from the sickos commenting on this situation literally cheering this shit on
terrible news. i mean it was last year so i wouldnt have commented on it here
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Just for perspective https://www.ochaopt.org/poc/5-18-september-2023
I don’t think you were brigaded, you were just downvoted. It can happen when you defend genocide.
yeah. cause having an issue with civilians being murdered = defending genocide. keep those cooker opinions coming
brigading is when people disagree with me, didn’t ya know?
It could be.
This is a very new story. I’m only commenting from a historical perspective.
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How so? You can confirm basically everything written here.
So I recently went to the effort to actually read some books on the situation there.
This event, and any like it, are inexcusable war crimes. Atrocious acts that cannot be justified. There have been countless war crimes on both sides of this war, unfortunately for not just the two countries involved but all the other people and countries that have been in the way (Lebanon, for one).
But these actions ARE the direct result of the oppression and genocides the Palestinian people have endured for the last century. Hamas actually had many members who advocated against such methods and well-connected members who made many attempts to negotiate through diplomatic channels, but thanks in large part to concerted propaganda efforts in the US by Israel, the war crimes committed by Israel are rarely reported as war crimes, at least in sources that most Americans would read. The Zionist movement from the start was well-funded and well-connected, and took advantage of that and their US propaganda to shut any Palestinian groups out of democratic/diplomatic channels.
Again, I’m not trying to excuse or be dismissive of the situation at hand - this is a completely inhumane, unforgivable act that makes me sick to my stomach to read about.
But I also KNOW that Israel committed war crimes last night just based on the retaliatory statements they were making - it echoes EERILY statements made by Israeli leaders prior to some of the most horrific war crimes of this war. And I know that many of those war crimes will probably go undocumented/unreported.
And again, not to justify anything, but to bring perspective: nearly 11,000 Palestinians have died in the war since 2000, to about 1,500 Israelis, and that doesn’t consider the Palestinians jailed or the many ways they are oppressed in their own land.
“You can only kick a dog so much before it snaps” - doesn’t mean a dog biting a kid that didn’t kick it is okay, but it biting the kid is still attributable to the abuse it endured which caused it to go feral.
Kino no Tabi (2003 version) episode 12 “A Peaceful Land” shows exactly the cycle of violence that goes from oppression to dragging a (mostly) uninvolved civilian through the streets.
Well put. People have been fighting over this land since 3000bc. The only thing that’s going to stop the violence between all the factions is each stopping the violence themselves. No more settlements. Roll back the illegal settlements. No more bombings, rockets, etc. Stop letting the religious fundamentalists IN BOTH SIDES run the show.
Do I think this is feasible? Historically… no. But I hope.
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Didn’t they end up more or less completely wiped out?
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Killing civilians is terrorism!
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Palestinians really seem to have no real way to win this conflict. I’m not sure why they continue to try fighting. Is what happened to them, just losing their lands like that, unjust? Yes. But that was like 100 years ago. Isrealis are not going to go away, and they are far more powerful and organized. At this point, the Palestinian militants are just making it harder for everyone to move on, causing more pain and suffering in an endless conflict that always costs them more than their enemies.
I’m not sure why they continue to try fighting
Oppression breeds resistance.
More people will die until they stop resisting. More oppression will happen when they do more barbaric things in the name of resistance.
The Palestinians are on the losing end. The Israelis aren’t any closer to defeat.
More people will die until they stop oppressing. More resistance will happen when they do more barbaric things in the name of defense.
The Zionists are on the wrong side of history. The Palestinians aren’t any closer to giving up.
You do know that each time, the Palestinians are the ones with the larger death toll and the disadvantage in technology and equipment, right?
The “Zionists” are on the right side of history in no other means than the fact that they are surely going to outlast whatever the Palestinians has in store.
Yeah congratulations on completely missing the point of my last comment. I was making fun of how absurd and pointless your comment was.
You do know that each time, the Palestinians are the ones with the larger death toll and the disadvantage in technology and equipment, right?
WOW, REAAALLLYYYY? After reading multiple books on the history of the conflict, I HAD NO CLUE! Thank you for enlightening me, oh educated one!
“Why won’t they simply give up and let us oppress them? Strange.”
Hamas literally wants to exterminate all of Israel, so I guess thanks for justifying Israel actions
Israel’s actions are unjustifiable, and for you to say otherwise shows your complete and utter lack of education on the topic at hand.
Don’t comment any more on this thread please, you’re too ignorant and will only be contributing to misinformation.
deconstruction of the state of israel is not mass genocide, it is decolonialism
Population of Gaza is growing 3% a year. If the Israelis are committing genocide they’re not doing a very good job.
Well they fucked around and found out. Start a war and lose and your people get displaced, boo hoo.
Indigenous people cannot start a war defending their homeland from a settler-colonial project that seeks to destroy them as a people.
Try and use that brain of yours for more than being a headass, mkay?
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If the British owned the land in that time how are Palestinians claim to the land valid?
If the British owned the colonies how are American claims to the land valid?
Britain didn’t own it, they “controlled” it as a result of the fallout of WW1 (Palestine was previously part of the Ottoman Empire).
Unironically this. As much as I’ll get downvoted for this: Create an apartheid state, the largest open-air prison on the planet filled with people who did nothing but be born there. Forcibly remove families from where their families had been living for generations. Brainwash your conscripted youth (so, literally all of them) into believing these people are literally less than human.
No shit they’re going to attempt to fight back. Now let’s see the completely proportional response by Israel. Will 10x the bloodshed be enough this time? Probably closer to 100x. How many innocent Palestinian civilians will be brutally murdered as a “response” to this?
When you create and foster an insurgency group within the country you LITERALLY STOLE FROM THEM, don’t be shocked when people get a little fucking upset.
So go ahead and downvote, and then continue jerking off to forcibly kicking innocent Palestinian families onto the streets, so Reuben from Lakewood New Jersey, with his dual citizenship, can “stake his claim” and move his family in.
Fucking trash government making their country illegitimate.
I’m sick and fucking tired of my taxes funding this shit. Pay for your genocide yourself, scum. Not much different than the US having deserved 9/11, people don’t like hearing the truth (and let’s be clear, I’m not justifying 9/11 attacks, just as I’m not justifying these attacks. Explaining not justifying.
The woman was German.
Why would Israel give a shit about these people murdering Germans?
If anyone would be making a measured response it should be Germany.
If it was my daughter being paraded through the streets dead, I wouldn’t be thinking about a very measured response right now. I’d probably be trying to level the entire country.
If it was my daughter being paraded through the streets dead, I wouldn’t be thinking about a very measured response right now.
…and if it weren’t a foreign, civilian woman you probably wouldn’t have heard about it at all, unless it was your child. Even a native, civilian woman or a foreign, civilian man wouldn’t have drawn so much newsworthiness.
Your probably right.
There a completely separate issue though.
If it was my daughter being paraded through the streets dead, I wouldn’t be thinking about a very measured response right now. I’d probably be trying to level the entire country.
oh wow a scenario you made up
I DONT GIVE A SHIT
woah but don’t care about the hundreds of thousands Palestinians murdered. You have shit politics, jump off a cliff.
Very pleasant person.
oh sorry did I not condemn your genocide apologia nicely enough?
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I’m no fan of this guy, to put it mildly, but he was talking about Hamas. I don’t doubt this was a dog whistle, but it shows they (Israel military) know the world is looking, so they are still avoiding full on genocide talk.
unironically yes, fuck ya’ll
everyone who defends the Nazi settler ‘state’ of Israel deserves to be killed
Meanwhile .ml and hexbear have gone full mask off. Holy shit, these people are literally cheering mass rape and torture. They are banning anyone who says these things are not justified. It’s actually terrifying how much of an appetite for cruelty these people are willing to tolerate just to be “right.”
This is seriously making me question whether I’ll stay on the fediverse.
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