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Yeah, our smug cloud has completely dissipated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmG64mVQV3g
I already see Canadian tankies complaining about how right-wing Carney is.
Stephen Harper when he was leader of the Conservative Party offered Mark Carney a position as Finance Minister.
So Conservatives sure thought he was far enough to the right to be a Conservative.
- fuck tankies
- i DO think it is fair to lament that the state of the world has anyone in a place where they must strategically vote for a fucking banker to protect you from something worse
I’m not sure I’m following but I want to, Carney was a banker which is bad but he is considered a necessary evil against Trump? I would totally understand that, as Canada might be really fucked without a good leader right now. I suppose this banker will need to prove himself, but if you an actor has been able to protect Ukraine (most of it) against Russia a banker doesn’t sound like a bad choice.
That aside, do people here think Carney is equally left/right as Trudeau was or do you think the liberals will have very different direction under his leadership?
So yes but actually no.
Carney is the Liberal Party, a centrist party, leader and therefor PM. Polliviere is the Conservative party leader and they have less seats so they don’t get to pick PM. If Polly got in, which is to say if his party had more seats than any other individual party, he would be Pro-Trump and his party in general is very Pro-Trump.
Most people agree that Trudeau was slightly more left than Carney, but many are upset that the New Democratic Party, the left and social democrat party of Canada, lost seats and have never held a PM position but honestly they would be crazy to expect anything else.
The identity crisis many leftist canadians were facing is whether they give up on NDP and vote Liberal or whether they allow a conservative PM. I’m sure they want empathy more than answers, right now.
Well it looks like they’ll need the NDP to form their minority government. The NDP should give their support contingent on changing the voting system to something better than first past the post.
They won’t have this much bargaining power ever again.
They had this much bargaining power with the previous government (also a liberal minority supported by NDP) and they weren’t able to use it to push electoral reform
my point was more that bankers are the embodiment of the banality of evil and pp is the embodiment of true mask off evil
Hmm in that case I wouldn’t know I’d prefer the masked or the unmasked evil, hard to say. Good points can be made for both I guess.
you absolutely want the masked evil. it’s survivable. the mask of evil is putin, trump, and poliviere. it’s hitler, stalin, and mussolini. the result of giving the mask off evil power has always resulted in deaths in the millions. the problem with banality of evil types is less that they are evil and more that they are the “good men” who do nothing, allowing evil to succeed. the point of leftist thought is to cordon mark off evil away from power. you will encounter “leftists” who advocate for the mask off evil types in hopes that this will galvanize the populace into fighting back against dictators, but history doesn’t bear out that that’s what happens. mask off evil types are extremely good at dividing the lower classes and thinning them one group at a time via genocide.
and if you pay attention to accelerationists, no amount of terrible is ever enough to galvanize the people. the point of something is what it does, and accerationists are always in lock step with the right wingers they claim to resist
I think I’ve heard to many people say “well at least he’s honest about it” and got confused. Restrained evil is definitely more preferable than evil on the loose.
You need evil with shame.
Shameless evil is absolutely unstoppable.
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The Canadian Overton Window shifts to the right, regardless.
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
Ah, the enlightened centrist has bestowed the ultimate and correct opinion.
Fuck tankies too. Many Canadians are understandably concerned that a guy slightly to the right of the status quo which gave rise to Poilievre is not going to make anything better for us.
Anything to the left of the Liberals is “tankies” now?
People to the left of Liberals aren’t Tankies, but Tankies whinge that the winner is not left of Liberal. They would probably also whinge about an NDP PM. The only outcome I can see them celebrating is conservative victory. Tankies are scum of the earth.
The discourse on Lemmy however is a tendency to use “tankie” as some kind of othering identity marker. If I, an NDP and QS supporter, raise my hand and say “excuse me but Carney is a right wing Liberal, and I’m not comfortable with how the Overton Window has shifted to the right in Canada”, there is a clear narrative that will lump me in with the Others, right? Who by virtue of being tankies are therefore traitorous to Canada and therefore, hello, here’s the old red scare trope of “fellow travellers”, “pinkos” and “useful idiots”. Let’s not pretend that’s not the case.
You’re right, demanding we expand NDP while throwing the election to conservatives does make you a traitor accomplice. And regardless of figure of speech, there is no virtue among tankies. If you want to move the overton window left then remove as many conservatives from office as possible, that is the only path forward.
Nice imagination you got there. Do you have more things to imagine about what my political positions are, while calling me a fucking traitor?
Some people man.
Consequences matter. Maybe you are full of leftwing virtue but no one sane or intelligent cares.
Valuing your virtue over consequences makes you a threat to everyone, including yourself. You’ll sink the ship for your principles and drag everyone down with you. So yes, if it minimizes you or your group’s political influence it makes sense to call you a traitor.
Its what got my country Trump. I now feel a visceral internal rage when anyone tells me “Democrats and Republicans are the same.” Regardless of what their actual politics are. Because I know they did not vote, they let this shit happen so they wouldn’t “dirty their hands”. I hate them. I despise them.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
Supporting lesser of two evils just gets you more and more evil, and eventually you get to Trump.
That phrase is aggressively fucking stupid.
Nothing is pure and virtue doesn’t matter. And even if virtue did matter, when you decide not to choose you are just as culpable with the result when it is the worse evil.
You can’t wash your hands if you had the power to act.
Where did I say that you shouldn’t vote? Of course you should vote. That’s a civic responsibility. I’m just rejecting the “lesser evil” argument. It’s used to support and justify bad candidates, and it helps to move the Overton Window in a more evil direction. All of those “lesser evil” candidates helped pave the way for Trump.
People not voting to prevent him from winning got us Trump.
In a rigged game, the illusion of choice is just a clever disguise for us to walk down the only path available.
I think this is more like multiple paths that are all in the same narrow valley, if pollievre had won that would have led to a different path for sure
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
The subtlety seems to have been lost over time.
Someone read that quote from The Witcher, not recognizing it was planted right at the beginning of a character arc of growth.
IMO anybody who promotes competition and antimonopoly is a working class hero.
“Competition” is not a working class interest. Solidarity is.
Yeah well Monopoly isn’t solidarity, it’s oppression, so fighting that is good in my book.
A liberal fights a monopoly by competition, so that no single capitalist gains more profits over the other capitalists.
A socialist fights a monopoly by socializing it and making it a utility that works to meet the needs of the population, eliminating the profit motive.
And the true enemy endorses monopoly, so I’m happy to call liberals my friends.
Sure, no problem with that, but they’re not “working class heroes”, which is what I reacted to in the first place.
Lack of alternatives is always bad, the needs of the population are rarely homogeneous.
Lesser of two evils, lesser of two intellects, lesser of two personalities, lesser of two qualifications, lesser of two accomplishments, we did all of that and then some. I’m happy for you all. I just wish we could have also rejected fascism.
you don’t have to be an authcom to see that carney is to the right of trudeau; he canceled the carbon tax, the capital gains tax hike, and is in favor of building more oil pipelines
no matter who won, canada would shift to the right. all we could do is decide by how much.
(and either way, all 3 of them - trudeau, carney and poilievre - are neolibs who support the genocide in palestine)
He cancelled the carbon tax because the name had been beaten up by the Conservatives. He promised to replace it with something similar but more palatable to the general public. I loved the carbon tax but agree that half the population was against it because pretty much they hated the name.
He explained in depth his reasoning for both of those decisions and if you listen to him its because the carbon tax failed to accomplish its goal and he is going to tackle the problem another way.He still supports the issue he is just trying a different solution.
For the cgt its because Canada has entered a trade war with its closest trading partner and he is planning to do massive investment in Canada and doesnt want a cgt hike disincentivizing investment.
Do you disagree with this reasoning?
Right wing does not mean unreasonable. It means right wing.
But he still has a left wing stance on those issues.
Lowering taxes on capital is not a left wing stance. It just isn’t.
He didnt lower taxes on capital gains though. He chose not to raise the tax on capital gains. A Right wing stance would be to lower or remove.
He did say he wikl lower two taxes. He said he would lower the income tax rate for the bottom tax bracket by 1% and remove the carbon tax and replaced it with a carbon rebate programming for Canadians. He also said he would work with a bunch of other countries to tarrifs goods that were not up to carbon emission standards. So that together is a much stronger climate change impact than the carbon tax.
Yes, he’s a centrist and he’s to the right of Trudeau. These are fiscally conservative centrist policies. He’s at the right wing of the Liberal party. He’s not Trump, he’s not a Conservative, nobody says he is.
But for the love of Tommy Douglas’ ghost, don’t try to sell me any of this as …left wing. Carney is no social-democrat or democratic socialist.
If you think that pointing that out is somehow deriding Carney, that’s a “you” problem. There is nothing wrong with being a centrist, I don’t understand why you need to convince that the man is something he just isn’t.
Just for clarification, he cancelled the consumer carbon tax. It was pretty much just a move to screw over PP (and I’m all for that honestly)
You don’t have to be a tankie to see that Carney is a red tory.
To be fair, we basically just elected a Biden-style neoliberal who is slightly to the right of Trudeau. As affordability continues to gradually decline, our Trump (Poilievre) or a similar guy will be even more empowered. We’re basically a few years behind the USA right now and your right are actively trying to speed it up.
We’re basically a few years behind the USA right now
People said that when Trump was elected the first time.
Bold of you to assume OP doesn’t live in Turkey or Israel.
That’s why the 2-party system is so flawed. I used to be so gullible to think that if everyone keeps voting for the left party then the parties overall would sway more left in their future policies, but that is impossible in the capitalistic hellhole we live in.
Good thing there were 5 parties in this election. We got another minority prime minister, which will need to work on the left of what they would.
I’m still a bit baffled it doesn’t work.
Like, the Left not doing enough SHOULD lead the right to decide “Dang, we need a message that appeals. Let’s blame the rich, and champion power over corporations!” But…instead they blame nonsensical things, promise nothing, and appeal to hatred, and get more than one vote.
That should just…never happen. That faction should be gonezo, making plenty of room for an independent party.
It’s because of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schismogenesis
It’s like being on a see saw, trying to get higher, with both sides doing extreme polar opposite actions eventually. Momentum is part of it. The idea is complex and the wiki doesn’t do it justice, but it’s fine.
The effect causes two well-meaning individuals having a conversation to ramp up different styles, resulting in a disagreement that does not stem from actual difference of opinion.
This video explains it quite well:
Minority Rule: First Past the Post Voting by CP Grey.
The system isn’t designed to be a two-party system, but no matter how many parties there actually are are (in the US, there are actually more than a dozen active parties), FPTP voting inevitably results in only 2 being viable.
This will not change unless a different voting method is implemented.
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The right just blaims the problems created by the rich on minorities like migrants, trans and homosexuals. That makes them look like they actually care about the people being hurt by the system, however also allows them to gain support from the rich. The rich do onw a lot of the media, which has massive influence on the vote.
The left party also knows this, so they usually do some minor things, which do not change the system too much in the hopes on not being hurt by the rich.
Oh and both parties are deeply corrupt.
The liberal party should pass the electoral reform they promised so more political parties can compete on who can beat conservatives the best.
Stopping the conservatives is the priority… right?
The liberal party honors their promises… right?
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
did you forget the voting reform referendum the liberals already gave us?
We also destroyed the other smaller parties. I feel like we’re basically a two party system at this point.
Isn’t he a banker too? I mean, it IS a normal leader now that I think of it.
I’m on record as saying even if the US had elected Harris, we’d be right back on the precipice four years after. Maybe Trump, maybe someone else, but it would still be awful.
As badly as the world needs Luigi right now, he’s not the long term solution.
The world doesn’t need one Luigi, it needs many Luigis. And a complete societal overturn.
Sure, sure, but, if politics were sane, Carney would have been the conservative nominee and there would have been no fear of fascism.
The really irritating thing to me is seeing the Trumpanzees mock Canada, talking like this is the end of Canada as a country.
No self-awareness, no realization that Trump’s policies are the direct cause of this. They can’t conceive of any way to advance their interests beyond people just abasing themselves before Trump.
Trumpanzee - I’m nicking that!
But it’s offensive to apes.
True. Apes would never let a trump-analogous-ape rule over them. That kind of ape would get the shit beat out of him and he’d cower in a corner thumb in mouth.
Humans are apes
Canada has had 0.7% per capita GDP growth since 2015. Which puts us 2nd last only to Luxembourg in all 38 countries of the OECD.
We elected a person who said oil needs to stay in the ground in their book, who wants to grow population at more than 450k a year (1% cap, plus births) to prop up GDP despite the current high unemployment and the severe housing shortage, and who wants to join Germany and the UK in spinning up solar and wind which clearly did not go well for either of them.
https://newsletter.doomberg.com/p/let-ed-run-it
Through that lens I could see how they could be fearful of Canada’s demise, especially if we have another 10 years like the last. Gross government debt also somehow doubled since 2015 as well to achieve this lethargic growth, before subtracting pensions to create the net debt figure the government generally uses.
Percap is probably not the best metric here, firstly, you’ve had massive immigration, your growth rate is around 3x that of the US.
Secondly, that windoe is also centered around covid.
Well we have a negative productivity growth as well at the moment. Hence the BoC ringing the alarm bells. That makes it harder to pay our growing debt load even with spreading it out to more people.
wants to join Germany and the UK in spinning up solar and wind which clearly did not go well for either of them
German here, works pretty well actually.
You’re also burning lignite coal now, which you take from Africa who is now having blackouts. But it went pretty poorly overall phasing out nuclear for renewables.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany
Key to Germany’s energy policies and politics is the Energiewende, meaning “energy turnaround” or “energy transformation”. The policy includes nuclear phaseout (completed in 2023) and progressive replacement of fossil fuels by renewables. However, contrary to plan, the nuclear electricity production lost in Germany’s phase-out was primarily replaced with coal electricity production and electricity importing. One study found that the nuclear phase-out caused $12 billion in social costs per year, primarily due to increases in mortality due to exposure to pollution from fossil fuels.
The propaganda train remains strong up here regardless. Half of the west is losing their mind every day pretending that Carney is some kind of secret nightmare that is going to soon be revealed, thus we’ve all shit the bed and will rue the day.
Canadian conservatives are 40% of the voters. That’s already way to much. And they using the trump book more and more: lie, lie and blame the left for fucking anything, some things will sticks. Even if I’m glad he was elected to deal the american shit show, the guy is still a fucking banker who’s first action was to remove the carbon taxe. While we have to deal with the toddler from south who wants to annex us, the climate crisis wont fix itself magically.
I’m ashamed of some of the regions of Québec that voted Conservative. Being from rural Montérégie but now living in Montréal is like two different worlds when it comes to politics. The riding where most of my family lives was won by the Bloc Québecois but followed by the Conservatives. The riding next to it was won by the Conservatives.
I hate to admit it, but if it were not for the Bloc Québecois, there would probably be even more people here voting for the Conservatives.
I voted for him. But he is still a Lib and we still need something better.
This is the way. Put out the fire before you worry about the leaky faucet.
yeah yeah well our broken country will still infect them like a mold so nanny nanny boo boo.
Also, Mexico
It’s the peak of privilege to celebrate “normalcy”.
It’s such a depressingly low bar to elect a gilded to the tits finance guy and pretend that’s normal.
Carney bounced from Bank of Canada to Bank of England to UN Special Envoy focused on glad-handing petro-states in the fumbled effort to address climate change. He’s a career bag man for big business. In the vast majority of other countries would be - at best - center right.
But in Canada, this is what passes for a normal liberal.
That tracks, because the Liberals are centre right
Peak privilege is to demand things to be absolutely perfect and refuse to except gradual improvements.
I’m not gonna congratulate Canada on not completely shitting the bed. The Canadians were going to vote in a Trump-like conservative until Trump started banging on about Canada being the 51st state. If Trump kept his mouth shut, it would have been curtains for the Liberal party.
Canadians did not vote for the Liberals based on their record or policies, they voted to tell Trump to fuck off. The moment Trump is no longer a threat, the unity dies and everything swings back to the Conservatives, which isn’t a good thing.
With any luck the Conservatives will split back into two parties. It’s unlikely, but the splitting of the Conservatives would be a welcome surprise.
There the People Party of Canada that has been a home to those who think the Conservatives aren’t racists, transphobes and conspiracy nut jobs enough
Yeah it was a close election. We absolutely did not reject Trump with any consensus. There’s not as much to celebrate people think.
What people don’t know is the Conservatives here have had a revolving door of leaders in search of a Trump-like candidate. The past several election cycles have been this way. The party has sold their soul to MAGA style politics a long time ago.
They just had the best showing ever in this election even though it was a loss. And this is with the best Trump wannabe candidate they’ve managed to field thus far. A belligerent authoritarian-like tyrant with zero shame. They are not going to stop this any more than the Republicans would to turn back from Trump. They may even keep the current guy even though he lost his own seat.
Canada will inevitably elect a conservative government. It’s a defacto two party system. It will all go to hell. Especially if MAGA is still ruling America at the same time.
they voted to tell Trump to fuck off.
God, if only our voters did the same.
But no, let’s talk about principles and genocide Joe, I’m sure that will help Gaza, that will really show them all!!!
Yeah, those guys are still pretty butthurt when you call them out. they just can’t get over their righteous stupidity backfiring.
They thought they were smarter and more moral than everyone else.
Their arrogant ignorance led to them falling for a trick only slightly less old than “Hey, look over there!”.
I’m glad we can drop the fucking bravado and acknowledge this now. We need to in order to survive.
Better than starting a war to manufacture unity.
Yeah, as someone from the shit hole to the south, I was very relieved Canada didn’t go in the populist, right wing, direction it was looking like. I am hoping the failure of the trump administration instigates a push back to the general trend right that has been going on in the west. My bigger, less likely hope, is that we can reflect on what happened and actually address the popularity of fascism.
Friggin love this meme template. Why was that little boy so mad? What did he want to do that day instead of getting his pictures taken? I relate, little dude.
I think they are headshots for an acting resume. So he is upset about being a child celebrity
It is still a do-nothing liberal who pushes their overton window right of even Trudeau setting the stage for the same shit in Canada as the US just a few years delayed
