This article has done a tremendous job of making the Zionists here expose themselves. They take issue with this, but can’t form an argument against the points being raised as is typical with Zionists.

If you have no problem saying that Boers are complicit in Apartheid or that Southerners are complicit in slavery, then you should have no problem with saying that Jews are complicit in Zionism. If any of the other groups mentioned here was doing the same as Israelis are doing currently, no one here would have a problem with saying “Yes, All Boers/Southerners” nor would anyone call that “hate speech” other than right-wingers themselves. Jews aren’t exceptional, and the standards you apply to Boers and Southerners should apply just as much to them.

Yeah, I agree. Revolution is not happening in the US or Europe, there are no viable formations there today and the people there refuse to build one. The best thing someone could do would be to learn a useful skill and move to the global south to help counteract the brain drain.

They have choice, the choice to not hitch themselves with NATO.

Having had the displeasure of speaking to some Ukrainians before, I can tell you they share the same views on race and ethnicity as some 19th century racialists. One straight up told me that people of different cultures have inherent racial “essences” and that ethnic Russians are just inherently bad because of that. 0 material analysis or understanding of how they ended up where they are today, just falling completely back on Nazi/Zionist-esque race science.

On top of that, Zelenskyy is a Zionist that would like Ukraine to be a “Big Israel”. The man is also a comprador. I knew from day one when I heard the West praising a guy I had never before heard of in my entire life that it was all bullshit without even looking into it further. Plus, the fact that the local right-wing pro-Israel parties were ride or die for Ukraine was also an early sign for me that I was right to be skeptical.

Yeah, my view exactly. It’s closer in reach than ever before, but will nonetheless take time and work.

Me too, I think it’s likely that the US Empire is in for a bad time in the coming years. Still a major obstacle no doubt, but definitely not as much 10 years ago.

The US is definitely losing in Iran. That said, I don’t think we’ll be seeing a noticeable increase in people seizing the moment to overthrow imperialism, even in much of the global south. The West’s (albeit weakened) hold on the world’s political economy and various collaborator and comprador elements are still going to be obstacles. Not to mention colour revolutions.

I don’t believe many of the people who are now denouncing Trump over fuel prices are going to evolve much politically. They will, much like liberals, “anarchists” and socdems/demsocs, fall for it again.

Given who Parenti was, I’d assume at least some of it is fair. There’s a difference between a lib regurgitating common right-wing talking points and slander against AES vs a Communist who acknowledges that nothing that exists is untainted by reality but nonetheless still understands that scientific socialism remains correct.

I’m under no delusions that something like all these guys being tried and sentenced for what they’ve done will ever happen in my lifetime. I’m simply not interested in having sympathy for them or being scolded for not liking them for things they did.

I don’t believe all bastards are beyond redemption. No one is going to be anywhere close to perfect 100% of the time and will have done or said something reactionary in the past. I simply don’t see the point in giving the benefit of the doubt when it comes to something like this, neither to vets or people who are trying to finger wag us for being disinterested in playing along with the absurd notion that we should ignore their victims. I could get the demonisation point if it was about something like someone having worked in HR or whatever in the past, but we’re talking about guys who unjustly killed people.

Personally, I don’t believe any of these examples are comparable to Israel and America. I don’t doubt that in many parts of the world, including in western countries like Brazil, there are members of the armed forces who are sympathetic to communism. However, not all military orgs are identical or a regular instrument of imperialism. Being a Russian conscript in WWI is obviously not the same as being an American drone pilot who enlisted of their own volition.

So what exactly are you trying to promote as point of view here? In contrast to what? As a contrast to “individuals aren’t responsible for anything”?

Not saying that you’re guilty of this, but I’ve often gotten the impression that people who talk about stuff like the “poverty draft” or whatever genuinely think these people had zero responsibility in what they ended up doing. Same goes for stuff like “the government, not the people” which is …uhhhh.

it is important to acknowledge the heavy ways in what material conditions influence people.

Obviously this goes without saying. Personally though, I believe that it’s quite possible to acknowledge that these people aren’t ontologically immoral but ended up there because of real material reasons while also believing that they should be held accountable for their actions.

I mentioned troops because the topic is a lightning rod for moral supremacists. (and it worked!)

Sounds more like you got no real argument and are now trying to pretend it was some clever plan to get the “woke moralists” to reveal themselves or whatever.

the ex-soldier who teaches commies to shoot guns build tunnels and avoid being seen by drones did bad things. so even though all I do is read theory and post on the internet, I’m a better communist.

Actually, it’s really strange to make up this guy and pretend everyone else is wrong for reading what you wrote lucidly. Most of these guys aren’t going to do that, they’re going to end up some Graham Platner type who only supports the “good wars” while wanting a bigger slice of the pie. Really bizarre choice of hill to die on.

It’s not fanfiction, I am simply saying that we should judge that other group by the same standards that OP wishes to apply to troops in order to show how pointless and counterintuitive it is to do so for either troops or cops.

the question is why are these leftists disproportionately talking about troops?

Because no one else is willing to talk about the harm these people do in nearly the same volume as the mainstream does about domestic problems like police brutality or ICE. The real victims in all this are forgotten about and everyone is expected to shed tears over guy having PTSD for killing people in the name of imperialism.

Personally, I think it’s incredibly inconsistent to say “ACAB” while not applying the same standards to troops, we too can make similar appeals to “material conditions” to justify or excuse the things cops do. In theory, everyone is a potential “comrade” but in practice there are also certain groups who will fight and die for capital. Troopers did so once, and likely will a million times before they have a sincere change of heart. I’m tired of having to explain this to people who would rather dive into stale Liberal talking points instead of just accepting pretty obvious objective truths.

It’d be like if I said “Next time there’s a big blowup about ICE or police brutality, I will concern troll about “alienating potential comrades” by being too critical about ICE.” With Communists like these, there is just no way I would ever want this movement to succeed. Lol. Seriously though, the rest of the world shows solidarity with the ineffectual American left, while that same left refuses to reciprocate and goes to bat for the troops that are currently doing something a million times worse than anything the cops have ever done domestically. Amazing how rhetoric like this doesn’t fall under the “No bigotry, anti-communism, pro-imperialism” rule.

I’m personally not at all interested in the success of a movement that is willing to go against everything it’s supposed to be about just to extend the olive branch to some Graham Platner type. If you’re willing to throw the world’s poorest under the bus just so that first worlders can have free healthcare and feel nice-fuzzy about having “rehabilitated” a child killer, then what’s even the point of calling yourself an anti-imperialist or Communist? At that point, just call yourself a liberal or a socdem.

Also, institutions are made up of people. They can’t exist without personnel that enable them to be, they have to be upheld by someone. You can’t have settler colonialism without settlers choosing to participate, you can’t have imperialism without people choosing to uphold it. Criticism of institutions is also criticism of people, they don’t pop out of nowhere and aren’t allowed to continue existing because of some invisible hand.

Okay, then lets extend this line of thinking to cops. After all, law enforcement are humans capable of change too and if you really believe what you’re saying, you should have no problem being friends with the local PD. ICE, welcome to the Resistance^TM!

The truth is that you brought up troops specifically for a reason. I’ve seen way more “demonisation” of local law enforcement than I have of the military, even among supposed “leftists”, but you are specifically offended about troops. Why? Because your local cops police you while the troops police the vassals and colonies on your behalf. The way you feel about being harassed by cops, is a mere fraction of what the people of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan have had to endure. While the armed forces are human, their victims are also humans.

This extends to demonization of the troops

This is where you lost me. I only ever seen this get brought up when it comes to defending the “troops”. Funny how it’s always like this. If someone complained about Communists “demonising cops/ICE” they’d rightly get made fun of as a lib who is indifferent to the nature of these positions. But it’s specifically a sticking point for you that Communists aren’t saying “thank for your service” to a glorified contract killer.

Also no, American troops aren’t responding to their material conditions. The vast majority come from fairly well-off backgrounds and enlist with the view that it’s a chance to have an “adventure” or to “serve their country” (a country founded on slavery and colonialism). If I had to guess, the truth that you’re indifferent to what the soldiers did abroad because it didn’t happen to you is a fact that is deeply uncomfortable to you.

I’d say it would be quite difficult to foment anti-war sentiment in the same way as the Vietnam War era. The West capitalised on 9/11 and was able to very effectively sell the Iraq War (and subsequent wars) to the public because of this. I don’t think there was anything quite like that even in red scare terms for Vietnam.

Plus, another crucial difference is that Vietnam War-era America had conscription with roughly one-third of America’s military personnel being conscripts who were drafted, it’s generally a lot easier to get people to be against something when it obviously infringes on an individual’s ability to choose to not participate without consequence. Nowadays though, it’s an all-volunteer force that is very unlikely to be receptive to the same messaging.

I personally don’t believe that conceding on basic principles to gain ground with people who are fundamentally opposed to anti-imperialism will have a positive effect. At that point, you’re essentially just preaching labour zionism.