Everyone should just give up on america at this point. Its a rotten place that wont reform for the good. Its people are so docile that they wont do anything unless you turn off their porn. Ameircans found out about epstein class and did nothing about it. Their protests are just peaceful parades that dont do anything. Theyre general strikes are just 1 hour long. Its a horrible country which daily terrorizes other countries for fun and its population is so depressed that they dont give a shit about any of that and they dont even care whats happening to each other and they dont care if pedophiles are ruling over them, they dont care about being lied to since they where born, theyd rather go to brunch or just watch some netflix garbage. Maybe im being pessimistic, but idk i think im being realistic and i feel justifies having this kind of attitude towards the empire and the people who live in it.
Death to all countries who harbor billionaires.
All of this simply shows that conditions have not yet deteriorated to a sufficient point where people in the imperial core are forced to develop class consciousness en masse. There is still too much comfort, it is still possible to go on as if nothing is happening because it’s not yet a life or death situation for most people. The good news is that this will change. As the empire loses more and more battles and begins to recede and turn inward, and as the global south rises alongside China, the possibility for extraction of super profits with which to bribe imperial core populations will dwindle. At that point the labor aristocracy of the imperial core will slide into true proletarianization and existential precariousness which will force an awakening.
TL;DR: you have to look at things dialectically. Everything is in a state of flow and change. What is true today will not necessarily be true tomorrow.
Revolution is coming to the US soon. The question is what kind revolution it will be. History seems to indicate that if we don’t have alternative systems ready when it comes the violent chauvinists will. Those alternative systems are being prepared as I type this. For decades only weeks of progress have been made, but it seems likely that the imperial pedophile cannibals are no longer capable or willing to keep their subversive counter measures in place. They seem to be relying more and more on overt violence. We must have alternative systems for resource distribution, education, health care and physical infrastructure reading. Marches are the first step, networking is extremely important for building new systems.
This is some ultraleft thinking. People here are trying their best and the Communism is growing especially groups like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) which is gaining more support their its protests.
You could replace USA with many third world countries and the facts would still match. Exceptionalism also applies in the negative.
As usual, please base your thinking in Marxist Dialectical materialism and not emotions and vibes.
At the very least try to explain things materially. Yes, all these bad things have happened and the US populace hasn’t rebelled. At the very least do some analysis instead of giving up. The fact that this has occurred is an indictment of liberalism and all its failures, the fact people haven’t rebelled is an ultimate prover of Marxist theory over all others. It is backwards to say otherwise.
I love it when people have no hope for me, it really makes me feel motivated. (I don’t identify with the US as an entity at all, but I do live here and don’t have somewhere else to go.)
I know this isn’t about me personally, but it’s demoralizing to read stuff like this. I could easily guess where some of it’s coming from. The US is in the middle of another baby-killing operation. So I try to just not say anything on the subject in general. Time and place, you know. But I don’t come on lemmygrad to read about how one region or another is doomed. If you can’t have hope for US citizens, then at least muster some hope for the indigenous nations who still have to contend with its occupation in the region.
I wouldn’t blame you if you feel no sympathy for me, but don’t tell me to give up. That’s a step too far.
Americans genuinely can’t fathom people hating them
Your thesis was already proven wrong on October 7, 1949 when the German Democratic Republic was born out of the ashes of the Greater German Reich. From the very microsecond the fascist dog reared its ugly face in Central Europe our German comrades resisted; before the Nazis came to power, during the height of their power, and long after the Nazis were ultimately destroyed. Even as Red Army tanks bulldozed their way through Berlin there were ordinary Germans resisting and the fruits of their labor were one of the most successful socialist projects in Europe. While they didn’t do it alone without them it wouldn’t have happened at all; or at least it wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did. Even in the Western Nazi Empire the sons and daughters of Nazi Party officials found their way into the ranks of the Red Army Faction, staring down the Gestapo successors that would ultimately destroy them with defiance. Even in Latin America the children of the Nazi refugees were capable of rebelling against the evil of their parents and fighting for a better world. Even now, after the neo-Nazis have emerged victorious and are spreading their vile ideals once more there are still comrades in Germany resisting. They aren’t special or unique in any way; they are regular people capable of learning everything you and I have learned. The literal forbears of our movement were two German men.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
Doomer logic is not Marxist. The fascist is the one who surrenders to the mentality of the immutable nature of a people; that some people are just inherently irredeemable. This is the path to dehumanization and that path only leads to death camps and genocide. An individual may be hopeless but an entire nation of people cannot be. That is simply not possible and there is no evidence to the contrary. Your comrades are here in the USA fighting for the same thing you’re fighting for and even if you can’t see it we are making progress despite the multi-billion dollar propaganda machine doing everything it can to silence and discredit us. The victories of our comrades abroad is emboldening us here to fight harder and we are doing that. You can argue that we’re not fighting hard enough, or that we’re not making enough progress, or that we’re not pushing people fast enough, but you can’t say we’re doing nothing because that just is not true and is a deep insult to everything we’ve accomplished so far.
Weeks and decades, comrade, weeks and decades.
It happened in Germany and it can happen in Germany again. It can happen here in the USA, too. Hell, if conditions permit, it might even happen in Occupied Palestine one day as far fetched as that may seem to those of us living through current events. Where there are human beings subjected to the contradictions of capitalism there is the opportunity to build socialism. The minute we start believing otherwise we may as well just surrender and start digging our own mass graves.
First test at contained globalization; it’s a shitshow. Watch itself turn on itself repeatedly. Watch the hubris spill over. Watch it struggle to balance the power of its majority versus the theory even the smallest majority is as equal. Watch it rip itself apart over race, and even after that’s settled keep trying to make new rules. Watch its women fight for equality, its queers fight for equality. Watch them win and then face a new wave of persecution, then fight again. Call for others to give up on it after all that blood, all those lives given. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you, you self-righteous fucking internet coward. Fuck you for everyone who has ever and continues to fight. Fuck you.
None of those gains have been appreciable for like 35 years this sounds like Obama talk to me. Gains achieved via concessions from the forces securing more extraction are FDR-slop & easily rolled back
Harder to roll things back when the people who would seek to roll them back no longer exist. The fight against tyranny, bigotry, and fascism isn’t about eliminating the tyrants, bigots, and fascists in power, it’s about eliminating what empowers them.
That would be the economic system that allows western workers to live entirely off an elevated position in the global economy that doesn’t line up with the minimal production they physically control, it’s all financialized and the workers arw as much cushioning as the asset market itself, lending their consumer demand to the pressure on global south countries, it’s like a magnet that keeps them in the dollar system.
This means that demands for healthcare, welfare, better working conditions, minimum wage etc. it all stabilizes the system of extraction US workers are a part of. Pointing the finger at their leaders’ corruption helps them ignore what a “successful + smooth” administration actually means & why Bernie SSandlers etcetera fundamentally have the same economic plan as Trump/Bush/Reagan etc
Note that this isn’t a moral framing saying that American workers don’t deserve this stuff, I’m not even getting into that. What I’m saying is that if Americans think that they can keep asking for it from their leadership, they’re ignoring that what they have to offer is not even something with the great deal of longevity in this world. It’s not just that the USSR scared them enough to start applying welfare policies and stuff like that. It’s that the elevated cost of living literally makes competitive industry in the United States and the rest of the first world impossible without the assistance of these private banks who manage the global trade system (quite violently)
Leadership is empowered by the people. Eliminate the people that support such leadership and support such industry from the bottom up, erode their support base. We’ve already seen with Brian and Charlie that attacking power and influence does nothing, it just plugs a new seat-warmer into the system or uses martyrdom to catapult its agenda to the next level. You can gather as many people together as you like to “demand” whatever it is that you want, but without the resolve to force the issue should the demand be ignored, demands mean nothing. You’re not just up against the wealth class, you’re up against an entitled middle class that has “enough” and will empower a wealth class to do the dirty work of suppressing upward mobility for anyone else. There’s people who would be unable to survive without our meager social supports that will empower people who promise to rip away social supports. Whether they think they’ll be the exception to that rule or are willing to ruin themselves just to ruin someone else… who knows.
The working class does not unite because it there is a culture of bigotry deeply embedded in the social culture. Some of it is manipulated by leaders to secure their ascension, sometimes they play toss the scraps and let us squabble while they play the party power trade game while having no intention of bringing any real change to the system. No amount of talk, no amount of economic or political change is going to amount to anything if the people seeking change don’t address the root of the problem- the fascist loving bigots in their neighborhood. Allow that to continue and America’s culture of hate might get defeated short term, but just like Reconciliation, it’ll fester, plot, scheme, strategize, divert, create loopholes, exploit, and even if it takes 150yrs, it’ll resurface as the same old hate in a new hat.
Brian and Charlie?? Explain and I’ll get thru rest
Brian Thompson, healthcare CEO shot and killed 12/24, replaced by another of the same cloth a month later. Charlie Kirk, conservative Internet personality shot and killed 09/25, had a WWE pay-per-view grade memorial service the same month and is now the next generation Confederate war memorial with statues, roads, and textbooks rewriting his myth. Plus he got replaced by what is arguably a more intelligent and dangerous demagogue than he himself ever was.
Okay, well to go back over this, I think you have something backwards about how to attack reactionary thought. Imperial financial system’s not simply an ideological project that people uphold due to bigotry. It’s more like short-sighted gambling addiction + self-interest. Attacking the ideology by showing people the harm they cause won’t cure them. White supremacy is malleable, it comes in many forms, & similar structures are created wherever capital needs to make minor concessions to minority groups to keep Eurocentrism intact as a mosaic, e.g. Ukrainian supremacy, Jewish supremacy, Japanese + Taiwanese + R.o.K. nationalism, Indonesia’s Islamic conservatives, ISIS + Gulf state monarchies’ fundamentalism fused with libertarianism.
This is why I see generalizations made to western workers about how “communism can improve living conditions [for them]” as potentially harmful. They read this backwards to mean “communism = welfare policies for me before global economic restructuring”—the climate is collapsing bruh. Don’t lie to these people, their lifestyle, chiefly its attachment to a parasitic economic system (not just their behaviors & consumption habits, the waste underlying it) needs to change before they can get the goods.
Vaxxed?
I’m an American, I don’t have health insurance to cover that 😜
You’re wrong because most of the left-adjacent efforts in the U.S are actually counter-productive, not useless.
As others in this thread have mentioned, conditions need to deteriorate in the U.S for class consciousness to proliferate. Yet the two largest left-adjacent orgs in the U.S (DSA / PSL) are putting in immense effort to elect soc dems and self proclaimed socialists who will attempt to save capitalism from itself FDR style. Of course no effort in re-distributing the spoils of imperialism is possible without the imperialism part, so none of these figures can really do anything to put an end to global exploitation- just make U.S citizens more comfortable with it happening. And that’s also where the supposed rise in class consciousness meets its ceiling, imperialism. What incentive do U.S citizens have to end their source of luxury? Having to see the suffering on their tiktok feed? Well that problem’s just been solved.
It’s doomer to think that their’s zero hope for the U.S. It’s reality to mention that despite decades of genocidal war right wingers and cult members (think Waco) are out flanking leftsists in domestic armed struggle.
But really how funny is it that there’s now a perfect excuse (that I agree with) for the left adjacent in the U.S to sit around? We’ve now been given the Materialist conclusion that the perfect time to strike will be some sort of depression in the U.S.
As if there wasn’t already one in the past, ha. I suppose we’ll just have to wait around and see if it’s different this time, or if the actually armed, actually trained fascists take the advantage first.
Death to America means replacing the empire with an anti-imperialist state.
Yeah, I agree. Revolution is not happening in the US or Europe, there are no viable formations there today and the people there refuse to build one. The best thing someone could do would be to learn a useful skill and move to the global south to help counteract the brain drain.
Everyone should just give up on america at this point. Its a rotten place that wont reform for the good.
That’s the difference between reform and revolution. There are no big reforms coming. The country has been glazing itself for too long. Only when shit gets bad enough, then a revolution can occur.
If there is a socialist movement that can take advantage of the conditions, it can progress towards socialism.
they wont do anything unless you turn off their porn
what if…someone makes some fake news about trump taking off their stash because israel needs it?, that would be a specific praxis for the american case
