cross-posted from: https://europe.pub/post/372863
cross-posted from: https://metawire.eu/post/61363
The right-wing billionaire’s platform has recently lost about 10 percent of its European user base.
The right-wing billionaire’s platform has recently lost about 10 percent of its European user base.
It’s a good start but we gotta pump those numbers up.
remember 80% of instagram is bots according to a study reported by german media.
so X id even say it could be more giving the vast hatred increase and content change over the last years. so basically they lost 90%
The rest are bots and Russian troll farms.
Europe doesnt want federated services, they want censorship.
Saying that oil production lowers emissions by displacing coal will be called climate misinformation, saying immigration needs to be lower due to a housing crisis will be called hate speech, using Bitcoin instead of the digital euro will be called terrorist financing. They’re already arresting people who do something as benign as retweet things, its a slippery slope.
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As a Dutchman, I agree we have great infrastructure and “walking” cities. But you’ve only seen Amsterdam. Outside of the cities, The Netherlands is more dependent on cars than you might think. I live on the border of the country and public transport is basically non existent and cycling is not viable due to travel distances, every adult has a car in my area. A family of 4 adults (children over 18 living at home) have 4 cars parked in front of their house here. We’re not as car dependent as the US, but we don’t live in a fairytale either.
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Spain is part of the EU and nobody is “violently beat up”, arrested or having a visit from the cops for going to an anti-genocide protest.
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I know the problem with foam bullets.
Still not happened to me yet, and that is in the UK which has the far more authoritarian Policing Bill looming over us. That doesn’t make as interesting a soundbite though.
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Yeah, Israel is shit, but unless you have a video for each of these protests being shut down in this way, that just isn’t the norm. Plenty of pro-Palestine protests and meetings here; outside Barclays, protesting specific businesses, sharing information in our most popular streets for tourism and shopping, musical protests at art galleries. Plenty going on, never even seen a police presence at these.
Not to say it isn’t happening, but trying to paint Europe as some pro-Zionist totality is weird.
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Not sure how talking about local and country-wide support for Palestine, and against the zionist genocide enacted by Israel, makes me supportive of Israel but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Too true. EC’s constant attacks on encryption is worrying to say the least. I hope nothing goes thru.
Christ, this is such a stupid take. You’d think that someone who was around on the fediverse would have an inkling about just how many instances are based in the EU and Germany in particular.
Just because a country or userbase wants a degree of moderation and accountability, and doesn’t tolerate hate speech, doesn’t mean that views are censored. Basic Popperism stuff right there.
Arresting people for retweeting? Really? Can you provide a source?
The article cites a case of online harassment from right wingers towards an immigration friendly politician that was ultimately shot. Are you seriously using this in defense of “but muh free speech?!”
“No, you have free speech as well, but it is also has its limits.”
Which is true. A lot of Europe learnt from World War II that certain types of speech should not be tolerated. In the rest of the article there are examples given - neo-Nazis for one. I am not particularly keen on tolerating the freedom of speech of Nazis or others that call for genocide and killing.
Oh boy…
Meanwhile, in reality, the EU funds lemmy’s development.
saying immigration needs to be lower due to a housing crisis will be called hate speech
Yeah, that’s kinda hateful. True, it really would make things easier for EU citizens if less people were using the limited housing. But it would make things harder for the immigrants. Putting citizens over immigrants is… xenophobia.
Why waste the government’s time solving the problem at poor people’s expense, when the government could instead tax rich people more to pay for housing?
If you had a zoo would you continue bringing in animals if they had no space left to live comfortably?
Likely you would call that inhumane, you wouldnt say they were being intolerant of the new animals if they did not.
People aren’t zoo animals.
So cram them into substandard housing because they deserve less rights than animals?
You’re not offering a tangible answer here.
And you think telling immigrants they’re not allowed to enter the country gives them more rights?
Putting citizens over non-citizens is called being a government.
Xenophobia is the irrational fear of foreign. And fear in this context usually shows up in the form of hate.
Putting citizens first does not mean hating the rest. Being a citizen of a country means that your government should represent you and your interests. It’s only natural that it develops into benefits for citizens.
Xenophobia on a person level is when you see a person that you think is not part of your same origin, do you cross the street, or attack him or whatever. Of course this is not even close to being an exhaustive list.
Xenophobia on a country level is when you punish foreigners irrationally. Not letting foreigners into your country because you have a housing crisis is not irrational, it is a valid reason.
I find it hard to find examples of country-level xenophobia. Even if the act itself may seem xenophobic, the government may want to gain popular support of their xenophobic population, which would be a reason and thus non-xenophonic.
Of course, not being xenophobic does not mean it is good. For example Israel genociding Palestinians is horrible. But their reason is that having a neighbor that claims the same land as you do is problematic, and they figured if they just kill everyone the world will forget in 100-200 years (or less) while the land will be theirs for longer than that with no revels, since they genocided them. Of course, having a reason does not mean that it’s not many other bad things (in this case, genocidal, which is worse than xenophobic).
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No I wouldn’t. Just like arguing a murder is not illegal grafitti, doesn’t make you pro-murder. Arguing that a specific genocide is not xenophobia does not make me pro-genocide. I absolutely hate what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and I believe that someone should assassinate Netanyahu and all of his pro-genocide people on power of the Israeli government. Or imprison them for life.
But you can miss my point all you want.
The housing crisis is not because there are immigrants. It’s because the vulture funds are buying everything they can to profit from it.
Being a citizen of a country means that your government should represent you and your interests.
I’m interested in everyone’s wellbeing. Also, the government should represent its citizens’ moral interests. It should teach them kindness by being an example.
Not letting foreigners into your country because you have a housing crisis is not irrational, it is a valid reason.
Not valid. It’s discrimination.
The results of an action being done for a reason being discriminatory does not make the reason invalid.
Almost any policy is discriminatory.
Taxing the rich more is discriminatory against the rich. Helping women out is discriminatory against the men. Ending segregation is discriminatory against people that don’t want be near people different to them. The list is endless.
I assume you agree with all 3 of those policies. Yet they are discriminatory. Those 3 policies are done because of very valid reasons.
There are very few policies that I’d say are not desceiminatory. Like universal basic income or universal healthcare. And even then, by your definition of discriminatory, those would be discriminatory. Since they would still discriminate against non-citizens.
There is no world where a person born in X country that has never left X country to receive income from a UBI policy of Y country. Unless X and Y countries have some sort of deal where that happens.
I don’t think that’s why we’re having this conversation. Seems like you’re talking about technicalities and I’m talking about values. I don’t think we can have a conversation like this.
This specific technicality is important for your point though.
I’m gonna explain my reasoning so you can choose whatever you want have a conversation about.
Your claim was that putting citizens above non-citizens is xenophobic.
My point is that putting citizens above non-citizens is a natural consequence of a state. And furthermore, that it is a good thing.
Xenophobia is widely regarded to be a bad thing and that we should avoid it.
If both of our statements are true. The natural conclusion is that we should have a stateless society. I don’t think that a stateless society is a good thing. Therefore I’m trying to find a flaw in the argument. I think that the flaw is that you are wrong. So I have to have a conversation with you about why I think you are wrong.
If you are wrong, it must mean one of these statements are wrong:
- Putting citizens above non-citizens is xenophobic.
- Putting citizens above non-citizens is a natural consequence of the state.
- Xenophobia is widely regarded to be a bad thing and we should avoid it.
Since 2/3 statements are made by me, of course I think they are true. So I’m going to argue about why the first one is wrong.
The only way to proof your statement to be wrong is by first defining what xenophobia is. Which you might call a technicality, but I don’t think it’s possible to have a conversation if we don’t first agree what the meaning of the words we use is.
After defining what xenophobia is, we have to figure out if the “equation” is true: “putting citizens above non-citizens” = “xenophobia”.
I’m a communist and I think we should have a stateless society.
As an American I think I have a good way for the fediverse to gain momentum as people flee fascist US tech companies.
achem….
“Europe! Canada! Fucking HELP! We broke everything again!”
Seriously though, while government-run and “official” instances may not be a fit for many of us here, it could make huge strides with mainstream users. Maybe getting a large percentage of people invite onboard in a small country or two could be the seed that gets it to spread.
Might have to also let people know the Fediverse exists?
Small chances for now, but let’s keep growing small communities here. People need to get tired of Instagram and centralized algorithms to switch to fediverse
I’d love it if the fediverse could have its own algoithms as long as theyre open sourced and made ethically, like they shouldn’t mess with peoples mental health or cause social media addictions
Yes. People don’t realize algorithms are one of the main reasons decentralized sited haven’t taken off. Most people don’t want to spend time looking for their content, they just want to log in, laugh at funny memes and look at pretty art
You are the algorithm. It’s like going out decades ago. You didn’t have an app to tell you which restaurant, bar or pub was good. You had to go and see it for yourself. Here is the same. You see people and you decide if it’s good enough to follow them. The same with communities.
I try to convince people to do “+1”. Like, keep X/insta/reddit or whatever, but every time you feel you have something to post, do the same at mastodon/pixelfed/lemmy. Those platforms are nothing without the network effects, and the network effects will diminish the more people do this.
Just a reminder that politico is owned by the Axel Springer group which is a real force of bad for Germany and Europe. Their media campaigns often try to push the public opinion in a right wing conservative direction.
Their biggest shareholder (35%) is KKR (an American global private-equity and investment company) that use the might of the media group to sway the public opinion against climate friendly actions/policies.
Thanks for that, I will be making sure to avoid them.
Biggest problem with twitter/X is so many companies mess you around until you call them out on it, then things tend to get resolved how they should have been.
I truthfully have always seen that as Twitter/X’s only use
It’s not just X; American social media has been gradually turning into such a shit show for the last 10 years: censorship, misinformation, consensus manufacture and creeping enshitification. I jumped ship to the fediverse and never looked back!
Those are rookie numbers, euros, get on that shit.
Read an interview with a youth researcher that said, he does not see a problem with the content moderation (regarding extremism) because young people are anyway not interested in the disussions on there because its only for porn…
twitter was used for Porn for most users, after the tumblr purge they all moved to twitter, or peopel curious about porn actors.
Let me guess, they’re moving to Bluesky?
That’s were the marketing dollars are
Ayyy, gotta have that monaaaay!
Or meta because its better? Like getting run over by a small car instead of a bus.
Threads sucks compared to bsky don’t know what you’re talking about there. Bluesky has way more features and posting quality.
Ewww people actually use Threads? Last time I saw it, it was like LinkedIn 2.0 filled with sigma grindset “chase that bag” crap.
I’m.on Lemmy and mastodon. Anything else is pure sarcasm. I sarcastically browse for TV’s on Amazon. But will I buy? No. All have spyware on them, so no. I wouldn’t touch meta with a 300ft pole.
This is not a particularly relevant comment, but you reminded me of when I was a kid and a friend had a TV on a stand opposite her bunk-bed. She didn’t have a remote control, but she did have a long stick, and she was amazing at pressing the buttons from like 2m away. Proper life skill.
In my day you had to turn the knob. I made a geared motor adapter to change the channel remotely. DIY when I was 10.
I tried moving to Mastadon first a few years ago and it was a pretty shit experience, Bluesky however has stuck in my app rotation pretty well.
Because Bluesky is centralised. You went from one serial killer’s house to another. You don’t know which serial killer owns your new house, but you’re hoping they’ll be nicer than the previous one. But at least their house is nearly as nice as the old serial killer’s house.
Dunno why you’re being down voted so hard. Didn’t Bluesky literally cede to Turkish demands of censorship or some shit?
Because Bluesky is centralised.
You say that like that isn’t exactly what the majority of people want. When I first left Reddit, I was trying to explain Lemmy and federated services to some friends and one of them immediately replied with “why would you want that?” And this was from a guy who owned and operated his own TeamSpeak server just for his friends to use.
The average person wants a service that’s easy to use first and foremost, and that is always going to be easier to do with a big centralized one owned and operated by a large company. They just want to be able to make an account and connect with friends and content. They don’t care about things like privacy until it actively harms them.
General advice regarding open source: even if you tried something out years ago and didn’t like it, it may be well worth giving it another shot. Open source projects often need some time to mature and take their time to improve, but only get better over time.
Which is incidentally the opposite of proprietary products, where if you give it another go in a few years it either doesn’t exist or is enshittified.
Unfortunately until they implement a For you algorithm across all instances and abandoned their archaic hashtag following system I will not be re-attempting
Do you need someone holding your hand while you cross the street too?
Abandon anything this Nazi touches.
I forgot that people are still using Twitter. WTF!?
What about his children that hate him but are still his children?
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Remove the word “out” and that’s how I initially read this and went D:
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Can you imagine getting pumped by musk? 🤮
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I hate X but I also dislike echo chambers
I also hate when people think an echo chamber is something inherently bad. Everything is an echo chamber. Your family, your friends, your local gaming community, your workplace. An echo chamber only becomes a problem when bad actors take control.
Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, or even Google. They give a shit about your wellbeing, as long as they profit.
Echo chambers are okay, no even necessary to stay mentally sane, as long as people share their honest takes without large scale agendas and manipulation.
Echo chambers are okay, no even necessary to stay mentally sane, as long as people share their honest takes without large scale agendas and manipulation.
You’re using a different definition of “echo chamber” than I’ve ever heard of. What you’re describing is groups of people sharing opinions that can differ with one another in good faith discussion. If differing views are being introduced its, by definition, not an echo chamber.
An echo chamber is when only one set of opinions are voiced, and all responses are in support of that opinion, hence the “echo” portion of the term.
If we are throwing around big words, we have to be precise though.
Echo chambers always existed and we are in them all the time. A few hundreds or thousands years ago, we lived in small groups. Those definitely had different opinions, but overall had the same values. Those were echo chambers. Now, where those bad? No, you want people to be in line on foundational topics.
But if you start to manipulate these opinions on the ground level, you’re going to divide people.
Global warming? Is it really that bad? Migrants? Aren’t the stealing our jobs? LGBTQ+? Aren’t they just harassing our kids and women? Hitler? Was he really that bad???
Do you get what I mean? Echo chambers aren’t the problem. They always existed. It’s bad influence that turns everything to shit.
What you’re describing is groups of people sharing opinions that can differ with one another in good faith discussion.
The problem is, this is what fashies consider an “echo chamber”. The definition itself is not applied in good faith by certain cohorts. For example, people having good-faith debates are “liberal” echo chambers, because not toeing the alt-right fascist line is never considered to be good faith.
The problem is, this is what fashies consider an “echo chamber”. The definition itself is not applied in good faith by certain cohorts.
Fashies also have vastly different perverted definitions for all kinds of things like “freedom” and “peace”, but I’m not adopting their definitions of those either. I’m not sure where you’re going with this unless you’re saying @tfm@europe.pub is a fascist, but I don’t think you are saying that.
Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, or even Google. They give a shit about your wellbeing, as long as they profit.
That’s delusional. The try to cater to what will keep you engaged, so that as much of the data you can generate can be milked. That’s like saying that agrobusiness cares about livestock’s wellbeing.
I mean, Mastodon is German, so they’re probably moving here. The federated fork of Dorsey’s Twitter is second.
“federated”
There is always that one comment saying “b-but its technically kinda federated”. It doesnt fucking matter if its federated if 99.999% if all users are on one instance. The entire concept of a long lived, enshittification resistant fediverse relies entirely on being decentralized with a reasonably evenly distributed userbase. You fucking bet lemmy would already be completely worthless right now if people hadnt stopped lemmy.world from grabbing more communities and users.
I agree with your overall sentiment but also literally 100% of BlueSky users are on one instance.
BlueSky is not federated. Also German users have outsized representation on Mastodon but most of the network is outside Germany.
