Ditched Google for DuckDuckGo in like 2019 and used that for a long time until Kagi came out and now I use that and I’m quite happy with it.
Everybody is using ai of course.
Who knew if your product was mostly shit people would stop using it?
77% still using it though
Sure, but this is a process that takes time; that said, he trend is downward and that will likely continue unless things improve.
And if tech people are no longer recommending it, or actively recommending against it, it is possible to get people to start switching. This is largely how chrome became so popular in the first place, and that required getting people to change from the default option.
The recent duckduckgo ad campaign will surely help rescue googlers and so does my mission to ensure everyone I know doesn’t use google search.
Fair point, but I refer you to my previous comment with the addendum that, unless things improve, Google results are increasingly likely to be removed from other services/features as time progresses.
This might be very non-linear, like ice breaking under your feet.
I went long enough without using Google (probably a year-ish) that, when I accidentally made a Google search a few days ago, it was a jarring experience.
It felt wrong the same way other search engines did when I first deGoogled. It was kind of nice actually.
The irony is Gemini is really good (like significantly better than ChatGPT), and cheap for them (no GPUs needed), yet somehow they made it utterly unbearable in search.
Gemini is really good at confidently talking nonsense but other than that I don’t really see where you get the idea that it is good. Mind you, that isn’t much better with the other LLMs.
So it’s really good at the thing LLMs are good at. Don’t judge a fish by it’s ability to climb a tree etc…
No, it is mediocre at best compared to other models but LLMs in general have a very minimal usefulness.
I get the desire to say this, but I find them extremely helpful in my line of work. Literally everything they say needs to be validated, but so does Wikipedia and we all know that Wikipedia is extremely useful. It’s just another tool. But its a very useful tool if you know how to apply it.
But Wikipedia is basically correct 99% of the time on basic facts if you look at non-controversial topics where nobody has an incentive to manipulate it. LLMs meanwhile are lucky if 20% of what they see even has any relationship to reality. Not just complex facts either, if an LLM got wrong how many hands a human being has I wouldn’t be surprised.
LLMs with access to the internet are usually about as factually correct as their search results. If it searches someone’s blog, you’re right, the results will suck. But if you tell it to use higher quality resources, it returns better information. They’re good if you know how to use them. And they aren’t good enough to be replacing as many jobs as all these companies are hoping. LLMs are just going to speed up productivity. They need babysitting and validating. But they’re still an extremely useful tool that’s only going to get better and LLMs are here to stay.
It can be grounded in facts. It’s great at RAG. But even alone, Gemini 2.5 is kinda shockingly smart.
…But the bigger point is how Google presents it. It shouldn’t be the top result of every search just thrown into your face, it should be a opt-in, transparent, conditional feature with clear warnings, and only if it can source a set of whitelisted, reliable websites.
After just trying it again a few times today for a few practical problems that it not only misunderstood at first completely and then gave me a completely hallucinated answer to every single one I am sorry, but the only thing shocking about it is how stupid it is despite Google’s vast resources. Not that stupid/smart really apply to statistical analysis of language.
Gemini 2.5? Low temperature, like 0.2?
The one they use in search is awful, and not the same thing. Also, it’s not all knowing, you gotta treat it like it has no internet access (because generally it doesn’t).
The one they use on gemini.google.com (which is 2.5 right now but was awful in earlier versions too).
Try it here instead, set the temperature to like 0.1 or 0.2, and be sure to set 2.5 Pro:
It is indeed still awful for many things. It’s a text prediction tool, not a magic box, even though everyone advertises it kinda like the later.
“Significantly better than ChatGPT” and “Good” aren’t the same. Like ipecac is significantly better to drink than sewage water.
I had that happen too. Couldn’t find something with DDG. Hopped over to Google and was shocked at how completely unusable it was.
Didn’t read the article but use Qwant since Trump.
Or Ecosia
Google’s been garbage for years now, I kind of miss Coppernic Pro which is what I used before Google it searched all the search engines available and combined and resorted all the results.
If you’re tech savvy, look into selfhosting SearXNG.
I think there are public instances as well.
Would it run on a Raspberry pi 5?
Yeah it doesn’t use many resources.
I’m running one on pi5 with no issue. It takes less than 5 minutes to install one under docker.
No effing way! I got a 16gb model, doing this right………now.
Been using Ecosia for up to a year now probably. I like it and I don’t need anything else.
Is Ecosia any good for the privacy-minded folks among us?
It’s more privacy focussed than Google, but less than others. Personally I use Ecosia at work and Qwant at home.
For a growing number of users, we can provide search results and ads from Google. For the eligible users, we will provide Google results by default. When your search results and ads are provided by Google, Google will use essential cookies and local storage to help defend against fraudulent traffic. Beyond this, the cookies Google uses will depend on where you are searching from: If you search from the EU, UK or certain US states (for example California), Google will not set additional cookies without your consent. If you search from elsewhere, Google may place additional cookies and the functionality of these cookies will depend on whether you have a Google account
Seems like using Ecosia is about as private as using Google directly.
Consider Kagi far superior.
I ditched Google and Gmail.
Best AI models from OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Google - included in one $25/mo subscription with our Ultimate plan.
Same trash.
Privacy company offers privacy focused LLMs for users that would’ve otherwise paid for ChatGPT. Unbelievable
Did you actually ever try Kagi or do you just want to spit uninformed delusions?
Those LLMs can never be privacy focused when they are still trained in stolen data, stolen art, stolen research and stolen models.
Every. Single. One.
You are confusing morality and copyright with user privacy.
You also failed to access if you’ve actually tried the search engine that you are no quick to spit nonsense about.
Some people want those features. You don’t have to use them.
The last lingering service I use is gcal. It’s so hard to ditch because so many other people use it that I share calendars with.
I ended up having to install a CalDAV client on my other people’s Android phone.
I ditched it around 2014 when I noticed it had effectively become the yellow pages. Its pretending to be one thing to the ‘user’ when its actually serving someone else. This is transparent of course but the balance/compromise or tradeoff of it still providing some utility to the user despite this is what may vary for different people. My threshold was low. That and the privacy violations. Unfortunately its a corporation.
interesting. looks like yandex and yahoo are the ones who took it.
Makes sense when you consider that Yandex is owned by a Russian oligarch, and Google has been fined more money than exists in Russia.
I’ve fully switched to ecosia. I much prefer their efforts, and they seem to fund decent projects unlike a lot of other carbon offset companies.
I still include Google results in my Searx.
Definitely miss the good ol’ days where it was optimized to give the best results. Same goes for Netflix recommendations back in the the DVD mailer days…
I almost never use them now.
You’re even a verified user. So you must be right. 😝
Didn’t think Lemmy had such a concept.
It was just a joke, because of his avatar.
Its been degrading as time has gone on. The other search engines (like all of them) are getting or surpassing google in certain subjects. AI has really made them look like fools in all of this. Their AI sucks for results and (while I dont like it) others are using chatgpt for search results.
I would say it is just the opposite. Google used to be good before they tried to post-process results in this extreme way and AI is just an even more extreme way to do that. ChatGPT and all the other LLMs just increase the noise to signal ratio (noise coming first because there is so much more of it than signal these days).
I actually agree. Others use chatgpt for just about everything. I dont like it for many…many reasons.
Google was much better pre-2020.
Google was best in the 2000s, but things were different back then. They were still a young company trying to improve the world, SEO spam wasn’t really a thing yet, there were far fewer websites, and most online discussions were archived and searchable (compared to today where there’s platforms like Discord that aren’t indexable in search engines at all).
People use chat gpt to tell them what to buy. We are doomed. Our brains are about to shrink to the size of a pea in 10 years. All is going to plan for the elite.
Its funny because you can totally run good LLMs on local systems but people are just going to chat because its what they know and its easy to work with. Like I get it, but they are starting to put ads in the prompts now.
I stopped using Google at the same time I closed my accounts with Facebook, instagram, Reddit and Amazon. Currently I’m using Ecosia which I think is German. I’m dumping all the US companies I can based on all the Trump crap. It is taking time and effort but I should be able to actually close the Google account soon and I replaced windows with Linux on all but one of my PCs.
Same here! Loved the switch to Linux.
I cannot get a handle on Ecosia my results are dog shit. Do you have any tips?
I wouldn’t say dogshit, I would say the results are good enough for most purposes, not great, my priority just as the moment is dumping USA based companies and I thought Ecosia planting trees was a nice touch. Although as someone else pointed out it is still possibly using crawlers from google and bing in the background. I’m still keen to try out other search engines.
I said my results are dogshit lol
Ecosia still uses American services though - they use Google, Bing, Yahoo and Wikipedia for search results.
ecosia is developing their own engine apparently
I hope that goes well for them. It’s hard and extremely expensive, which is why there’s so few good search engines and half of them just use Bing’s API.
Yeah but don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Among other things, they just recently announced that they’re starting to build an alternative index with Qwant.
I’ve never heard of Ecosia, but I don’t understand your logic on this.
Problem: Google bad!
Solution: Don’t use google, use Ecosia instead.
Error: Ecosia also uses google.
How is this a good move? If anything it’s just a lateral move with the same problem.
Eventually they’ll stop using G and MAYBE they have better impact in the climate. Why be a fucking prick about it?
Same logic for using Brave or some other chromium browser instead of Chrome proper. It is better than using Chrome proper, even if it has cons.
I’m using Qwant, used Ecosia before. Really OK for most stuff. I still revert to googling occasionally - mainly for local businesses on maps and sometimes shopping results. But I agree, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good, well said.
Google maps is still the best for looking up local businesses and reviews. I wish people would go back to using a modern version of yellow pages.
In Ecosia’s settings you can set it to primarily use Google results instead of Bing. Makes it a lot more enjoyable to use.
Definitely true. I’ll have to try it out. Is Ecosia better than DuckDuckGo or Kagi?
You’re right but it’s still important to point out in this case since an American index would be subject to any American censorship law. It’s better to use Ecosia than Google for sure but we still gotta be aware of the type of bias we’re working with.
95+% of all websites you visit are hosted on AWS or use Cloudflare.
But that’s their decision, not yours.Do you have a source for that? I think it’s nowhere near 95% of sites given there’s several major providers that aren’t AWS or Cloudflare (eg Hetzner, Google Cloud, DigitalOcean, Wordpress.com, and a bunch more)
What about DuckDuckGo?
Everyone whines because it’s built on bing but it’s fine and respects privacy better than most
At this point Bing is better than Google, so using a privacy based skin of Bing seems like a good idea.
