CNN reporting on some interesting survey results from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah. Seven hundred and fifty adults were interviewed face to face in the West Bank, and 481 were interviewed in Gaza, also in person. The Gaza data collection was done during the recent truce, when it was safer for researchers to move about.
Of course they’re going to support fighting back against a nation murdering their children in broad daylight while the world watches, who could blame them? Many probably didn’t hold those sentiments before this “reprisal” but now…
Eh, that’s not quite what the survey respondents are saying. It’s not as simple as “support war, yes or no?”:
The survey, which has a four-point margin of error (rather than the usual three-point), found that almost three-quarters (72%) of all respondents believe Hamas’s decision to launch its attack on Israel on October 7 was “correct.” Less than a quarter (22%) said it was “incorrect.”
They’re very clearly in favor of the initial attack, not just the response. And it goes further:
In Gaza, support for armed struggle has risen only slightly from 50% in September 2022 (a year before the current war) to 56% in December 2023. In the West Bank, however, support has been rising dramatically from 35% in September 2022 to 54% in September 2023 (a month before the war). This month, polled support for armed struggle reached 68% in the West Bank.
And:
But Shikaki cautions that higher support for Hamas should not be over-stated, at least not yet. As more Palestinians come to terms with the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7, so attitudes could change — though that is unlikely to be the case so long as Gaza remains under massive attack.
Important again is how many people have watched videos from October 7 and the differences between the territories. In Gaza, 25% of those asked said they had viewed such videos; and 16% of all respondents told researchers Hamas had committed war crimes. In the West Bank, the corresponding numbers were just 7% and 1%.
Gaza is moving out of denial more quickly than the West Bank, Shikaki says, and that means a reckoning for Hamas. Already, only 38% of Gazans want to see the militant group return to governance after the war.
This is the part that’s Western media doesn’t show: Hamas support and animosity towards Israel predates the October attacks, it’s a big part of why the Israeli government is responding this way.
I think most Palestinians have some sort of animosity towards Israel for a long time due to apartheid.
Holy shit, could we be on the cusp of a unified Hamas government in Gaza and the West Bank?
Probably not. Hamas has been more popular in the west bank for decades. The Palestinian authority is a repressive government. It will continue imposing itself on the people and serving Israel regardless of that. The only way the will of the populace could be instated in the west bank at this time is if the PA’s own security forces rebel. That’s not likely to happen because they go through severe brainwashing and personal humiliation in order to become part of the forces through a program devised by the US and overseen by general Dayton.
Yep.
It’s just they (rightfully) feel like diplomacy won’t work because there’s an obvious mismatch in strength, and the international community has shown not to give a fuck for decades.
It’s a slow genocide, or a fighting chance.
They literally have no other option than sitting there waiting to be killed. Who wouldn’t want to fight back? Even if they know they can’t win.
“we’re outsized in military strength so we should pursue war over diplomacy” what?
Israel is never going to respond to Diplomacy. That’s not how genocidal states operate.
What does that have to do with the clarification I inquired about?
You’re acting as if Diplomacy is an option. It’s not. Genocidal states do not respond to Diplomacy. They only respond to bloodshed and slaughter. Did the Nazis come to the table in good faith while they were genociding? No? Then why do you think Israel is any different?
That’s twice you didn’t actually respond to my comment. Now you’re going down a rabbit hole extrapolating what my beliefs are. Do you do this offline? Walk down the street and shout at strangers about tangential topics to things you seem them observing or working on? Ffs I dont even feel that differently than you.
I definitely responded to what you meant originally, even if you think it doesn’t make sense as a reply. Why are they pursuing war when they’re outmatched? Because it’s literally the only option when dealing with genocidal states. What other clarification could you need? Apologies if I gave you too much credit towards having opinions that make sense though.
How long do you think they should try diplomacy for before they realize that it’s not working?
What? My comment is that the above doesn’t make logical sense. What are you talking about?
How long do you think they have tried it?
30 years or so.
The person I’m replying to seems to be missing a lot of historical context, which is why I’m asking the question and why I’m not going to answer yours without a bit of quid pro quo.
No, I don’t.
I’m trying to interpret this as a response to my post, but it doesn’t make sense. I don’t want to assume incorrectly or misinterpret your response so I need you to clarify what you mean.
This is literally the opposite of the truth, look at how Israel has made peace with every other Arab nation in the area after they came to the table for peace, fighting will just end in more subjugation and loss of territory, that is the story of Israel and Palestine
Israel tries to make peace, Palestinians refuse and fight then lose more land, ad infinitum
Not surprising at all. When you see people around you dying, you either flee or fight… rest is all BS orchestrated by Zionist run media. The core is simple enough.
The poll is about the Oct 7th attack.
Zionist run media. You’re saying Israel owns CNN?
Cooperate media has shareholders. Those are pro Israel. So is the US government that imposes its influence as well.
So the US government tells cable news how to report? So is there a memo to staff?
And the tens of thousands of working class people in these conspiracies. None of them has accidentally shared proof of the secret?
You’re an antisemite. Jewish controlled media is a tent poll of it. You don’t have to like it or accept it, but by definition, it’s what you are. And I didn’t say a word about Israel or Zionism so don’t deflect.
You can call me an antisemite all you want. At the end of the day, I’m not the one who’s supporting a fascist genocidal regime that executes children and even its own people while they’re waving white flags.
Any government tells cable news how to report. That’s the case literally everywhere in the world. What planet do you live on?
BS like the 1200 civilians slaughtered?
I can’t imagine why, considering how marvellously calm, restrained, and mature Israel has been. I mean it’s not like Israel has been indiscriminately bombing children or something…?
No! That’s just what they want! No good will come of it and more people will die! Stay strong, Palestine! The world is with you!
Hamas is was and is a popular government. Sad given they haven’t exactly steered Gaza to a good place.
I’m aware Israel is responsible for leveling Gaza but coming after the hostages was obviously going to happen - what’s Hamas’s end goal here?
what’s Hamas’s end goal here?
Rebellion.
Have you read their charter principles?
I don’t think they have
No it really isn’t that popular, based on polling done just before the Hamas attack.
Like it is among the most supported among Palestinians, but that leaves out the little matter of majority of Palestinians support no one, trust no one. They support no one, see no hope of better future with any path and pretty much are living due to day trying to manage the practical matters of their lives.
Only one side will win.
I find it challenging to navigate comment sections on this topic.
Firstly, Israel has the right to exist and defend itself against terrorism.
Secondly, Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. There is no justification for supporting such a group, just as you wouldn’t sympathize with ISIS or the Taliban.
What we can agree on is that Israel’s current right-wing government, spanning the past 20 years, has implemented policies criticized for creating an apartheid-like situation for Palestinians. The support for radical settlers and resulting violence against Palestinians is a legitimate concern.
It’s crucial to separate criticism of the Israeli government’s actions from questioning the right of Israel to exist. Criticize the policies, be concerned about the treatment of Palestinians, and advocate for a two-state solution that respects the rights and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians. Removing religion and right-wing politics from the equation could pave the way for a more equitable and peaceful coexistence.
Israel has the right to exist
Did they have a right to exist when they stole land and only got control over it after multiple wars?
Feels like zionists are working overtime to craft any argument that diverts attention away from their colonization.
Zionism is religious nationalism. It is the belief that Jews are entitled to the land of Israel.
Seems like you have no problem with the dozens of Muslim countries who have expelled every single Jew out of them, but have a problem with Jews claiming a right to live safely in the land they’re indigenous to.
Defensive wars. You just don’t want any Jews there big dog.
Acknowledging Israel’s right to exist doesn’t negate Palestinian rights.
While the establishment of Israel was rooted in the need for a Jewish homeland after WWII, it’s crucial to distinguish between historical necessity and subsequent political actions. The shift toward right-wing Zionism has influenced policies, but blaming the entire state of Israel and Jewish people in general oversimplifies a complex history.
Don’t get me wrong: religion should be out of politics, and this unnecessary war should get to a full stop. Attacking the right of people to form states (that applies for Palestinians and Jews) is not a solution to this conflict. It only ends in more death and more wars.
Acknowledging Israel’s right to exist doesn’t negate Palestinian rights.
Americans said the same shit about squatter’s rights and manifest destiny.
but blaming the entire state of Israel and Jewish people in general oversimplifies a complex history.
There you go trying to conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Nothing is wrong with “Jewish people in general.” Zionists, however, are on par with Nazis because they believe Jews are entitled to the land of Israel just like Nazis thought the Aryans were entitled to Eastern Europe.
Zionists are trying to solve their Palestinan Question with genocide just like Nazis tried to solve their Jewish Question (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_question) with genocide.
You, presumably a Zionist, get mad whenever these facts are presented because you do not like your religious nationalism to be exposed for what it is.
Zionism is the new Nazism. Treat Zionists as you would treat Nazis.
Israel has killed more civilians in 2 months than Russia has killed in 2 years, to put things into perspective.
Once again, my entire post opposes religious fanaticism, such as Zionism. And as well of atrocities of this conflict and an apartheid state created by Israel right wing politicians
Observe how many individuals, both here and across the internet, misunderstand the entire conflict, erroneously attributing atrocities committed by both sides to Jews in general. This is antisemitic and has no place in this context.
Both Palestinians and Jews have the right to peacefully share their country. Therefore, support the PLO instead of a terrorist organization like Hamas, which receives funding from Iran - another fanatic religious state.
Israeli jews are indigenous to the Middle East, many expelled from their homelands in places like Iraq, Egypt, and Yemen. Your claim of “colonialism” (the word you’re looking for here) may be a common view in the West, but it’s an outright misconception.
The wars you’re talking about: the big ones in 1948 and 1967 were started by groups of Arab states attacking Israel for declaring their independence. Israel defended itself.
Most importantly, October 7 of this year was an absolutely brutal bloodbath perpetrated against women, children, elderly people – civilians. Twenty-year-olds dancing for peace. Residents of left-leaning Kibbutzes, many of whom were outspoken supporters of Palestinian rights. Members of Hamas and other Palestinians streamed across the border and shot civilians, beheaded them, lit their houses on fire, killed their children with grenades, tied women and girls to trees and raped them.
The next day, before a single Israeli bomb had fallen in Gaza, there were demonstrations in the West against Israel.
Rights are for people, not countries. Israel is a European neo colony. Its existence stands on the same moral ground as French rule in Algeria.
Jews are indigenous to Judea which is in the current west bank, what are you talking about.
Let’s give southern Greece back to Sparta cause it belonged to them thousands of years ago. Same logic as Israel’s founding. It’s a genocidal European settler colony in the Middle East, no different than any other.
