Im fairly certain that what I’m about to say will be disliked by ketamine users and abstainers.
Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it’s many uses because it makes the user stupid. It’s often given to suicidal people, not because it’s a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
That said, it’s great at making people too stupid to be able to hurt themselves, most of the time. It’s great at numbing psychological pain because the user will be too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically.
It’s also hard on the urinary system and has a fleeting high.
If you like ketamine then by all means, you do you. If you may be interested in trying ketamine, become a zombie safely, just don’t expect it to cure your depression, woes, or any of your other problems.
Yeah, I’m gonna take the peer reviewed studies results that show that ketamine is quite effective with relieving drug resistant depression over this post of yours…
Yeah but I don’t like when peoole see one study and then claim that it’s conclusive. The consensus is that there may there might be something to it being useful for depression, and it should be studied further. No high confidence.
It is useful in creating a sense of disassociation of self - the same thing that meditation does. It even affects the same regions of the brain as meditation. When used carefully, with therapeutic intent, it can be an effective treatment for depression.
Recreational use is sketchy, definitely. But the science is there for using it therapeutically.
I have no dog in this fight, but any studies done on brain chemistry and psychological effects need to be taken with a grain of salt. We know so little about the brain and consciousness that most of the stuff we’re trying and doing are educated guesses.
Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it’s many uses because it makes the user stupid. It’s often given to suicidal people, not because it’s a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
This quote from you contradicts what you’ve just said.
It doesn’t. I can speak to it’s mode of action without speaking to it’s reason of use or efficacy. It’s highly effective. It’s great at what it’s used for. It also temporarily makes the user stupid and incapacitates them.
You didn’t though. You used a blanket statement. As evidenced by your use of the word “everything”. Your entire initial comment reads as if it was written in the grip of anti drugs hysteria in the 1950s and shows none of the nuance you’re now trying to claim it does.
You’re also wrong on its mode of action, so you’re not even speaking to that. It doesn’t work by making the user “too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically”.
I would add to this that anyone doing ketamine should not do it in the bath, which seems to be what happened here. The same happened to someone I knew, she drowned in the tub.
Yeah, “don’t k-hole in the bathtub” seems like pretty good (and hopefully obvious) advice. This seems more like user error than the acute effects of the drug itself.
He didn’t die from overdosing on ketamine, because that’s nearly impossible.
I judge my desire to try drugs by how people act when they’re on them. Do they look like they’re having fun at least? Two drugs I’ve never had an interest in:
That’s unfortunate. The effects of many drugs can be entirely mental rather than visual, leaving the person looking like they’re just laying down with their eyes closed, or staring into space.
Particularly, ketamine, as a dissociative, at higher doses, is entirely in your mind. What a person in that state looks like from the outside is zero indication of what they are experiencing.
It’s not unfortunate. To me drugs are entirely unnecessary to begin with. And if I choose to use them it’s to enhance an activity, not to replace an activity or be an activity on its own. I’ll be fine.
Well that’s not what we were talking about though, was it? We were talking about you judging people based on how they may look while under the influence. That’s ignorant.
Also, I find this to be amusing:
To me drugs are entirely unnecessary
Uh huh, so I guess antibiotics are off the table? I sure hope you don’t die from a minor infection. Hope you never get diabetes or high blood pressure. No cough medicine or allergy medicine either, that’s annoying. I hope you don’t have any serious allergies, because EpiPens sure as shit count as “drugs”.
To expand on the urinary issues ketamine causes, the problem is that ketamine will recrystallize inside your blatter and ketamine crystals can be pretty sharp.
MDMA not worth it? It’s euphoria and love in a pill, not addictive, and quite safe when you do not abuse it. Millions of people use it and have been using it for about half a century and the vast majority of it restricts it to when they’re partying with few side effects. I think you misjudge its use a bit.
Yes it can be acutely abused because you’re chasing the dragon on nights that you do use it, but that is also a result of its illegal nature and a lack of education.
Of the chemical variants of drugs, I’d say it’s probably one of the few that is actually worth it, besides LSD.
You’d be shocked by how many very successful and incredibly intelligent people have used drugs (including MDMA). Many still use them regularly. MDMA, in the right setting and in moderation, can (will) be a life-affirming and beautiful experience.
This honestly sounds like something a child would say after having D.A.R.E. in elementary school.
I know people like this. Though I should probably define regularly as once every few weeks for k. Probably closer to like 2 to 4 times a year for MDMA.
Obviously if you’re doing stuff every day then you won’t be productive in a job
And yes, I know plenty of people like that. And chances are, so do you. You just don’t know it.
Edit; in case you’re young, I don’t want anyone to take this as evidence that “drugs are ok”, or “they lied to us about cannabis/MDMA, so that means they lied about heroin too.” No. This is why we’d be much better off if they were just honest from the beginning. Not all drugs are created equal, but also the classification system in the US (and most modern nations) is not necessarily based on potential harm.
So to be clear, my comment is not necessarily true for all drugs, I am specifically referring to MDMA right now (which, before becoming illegal, was used by doctors to great effect as an aid in couples’ therapy).
Hmmm, I don’t know the second one but mdma is great fun. Of course you have to be in a good state of mind before trying, but it’s a potent empathogen that has its uses.
One of the most fun nights of my life is when I went to visit a friend at his university, we took some and he immediately ended up with some girl and disappeared on me.
So I decided that I would just wander his campus looking for parties. I took shots with frat boys, danced with some gays guy out dressed in drag, played chess with some guy on the quad (he would have destroyed me even if I was sober), found another friend and went and partied with her and her lesbian friends (“wait you’re a lesbian now?” “Maybe not sure”) and then made the biggest mistake of my life when I turned down joining them when I was making a hasty exit after I noticed one of the girls was eating the other out right next to me on the couch.
My experience is very vanilla coming after yours, but we had some of that and spent the entire night in my last floor apartment just chatting and drinking looking at the sea. It was full moon too. At one point I must have thought it was around midnight, I peeked at the east-facing window in my room and a big ball of fire was burning on the horizon. Time really flew this night…
Im fairly certain that what I’m about to say will be disliked by ketamine users and abstainers.
Ketamine is garbage at everything besides temporarily lobotomizing people. It works for it’s many uses because it makes the user stupid. It’s often given to suicidal people, not because it’s a miracle drug, but because it incapacitates them in a safe manner.
That said, it’s great at making people too stupid to be able to hurt themselves, most of the time. It’s great at numbing psychological pain because the user will be too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically.
It’s also hard on the urinary system and has a fleeting high.
If you like ketamine then by all means, you do you. If you may be interested in trying ketamine, become a zombie safely, just don’t expect it to cure your depression, woes, or any of your other problems.
Yeah, I’m gonna take the peer reviewed studies results that show that ketamine is quite effective with relieving drug resistant depression over this post of yours…
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/10/ketamine.html
Yeah but I don’t like when peoole see one study and then claim that it’s conclusive. The consensus is that there may there might be something to it being useful for depression, and it should be studied further. No high confidence.
It is useful in creating a sense of disassociation of self - the same thing that meditation does. It even affects the same regions of the brain as meditation. When used carefully, with therapeutic intent, it can be an effective treatment for depression.
Recreational use is sketchy, definitely. But the science is there for using it therapeutically.
But your assessment of its efficacy is not contradictory to DontHavePants observation. They didn’t say it wasn’t effective.
I have no dog in this fight, but any studies done on brain chemistry and psychological effects need to be taken with a grain of salt. We know so little about the brain and consciousness that most of the stuff we’re trying and doing are educated guesses.
And random social media text posts need to be taken with a cargo ship’s load worth of salt.
Nothing I said is in any contention with ketamine/depression studies.
This quote from you contradicts what you’ve just said.
It doesn’t. I can speak to it’s mode of action without speaking to it’s reason of use or efficacy. It’s highly effective. It’s great at what it’s used for. It also temporarily makes the user stupid and incapacitates them.
You didn’t though. You used a blanket statement. As evidenced by your use of the word “everything”. Your entire initial comment reads as if it was written in the grip of anti drugs hysteria in the 1950s and shows none of the nuance you’re now trying to claim it does.
You’re also wrong on its mode of action, so you’re not even speaking to that. It doesn’t work by making the user “too stupid to conceptualize their own thoughts or realize where they are physically”.
He said everything except “temporarily lobotomizing people” which was clearly hyperbole.
He then gave examples where the sedation provided by ketamine can be beneficial.
This guy gets it.
There are so many overly pedantic haters that recently joined Lemmy. Every post now is controversial as fuck judging by the downvoting going on.
Or, get this, everyone experiences drugs differently and your bad anecdote is irrelevant next to the mountains of evidence and peer reviewed studies.
Once again, I haven’t disputed or attempted to refute any of these “mountains of evidence.”
I would add to this that anyone doing ketamine should not do it in the bath, which seems to be what happened here. The same happened to someone I knew, she drowned in the tub.
Yeah, “don’t k-hole in the bathtub” seems like pretty good (and hopefully obvious) advice. This seems more like user error than the acute effects of the drug itself.
He didn’t die from overdosing on ketamine, because that’s nearly impossible.
He drowned.
Any drug close water where you can drown is a recipe for disaster. Someone I knew pop and acid tab at the beach and drown itself.
Agreed. Don’t get lobotomized in any body of water.
I judge my desire to try drugs by how people act when they’re on them. Do they look like they’re having fun at least? Two drugs I’ve never had an interest in:
Ketamine
Nitrous
That’s unfortunate. The effects of many drugs can be entirely mental rather than visual, leaving the person looking like they’re just laying down with their eyes closed, or staring into space.
Particularly, ketamine, as a dissociative, at higher doses, is entirely in your mind. What a person in that state looks like from the outside is zero indication of what they are experiencing.
It’s not unfortunate. To me drugs are entirely unnecessary to begin with. And if I choose to use them it’s to enhance an activity, not to replace an activity or be an activity on its own. I’ll be fine.
Well that’s not what we were talking about though, was it? We were talking about you judging people based on how they may look while under the influence. That’s ignorant.
Also, I find this to be amusing:
Uh huh, so I guess antibiotics are off the table? I sure hope you don’t die from a minor infection. Hope you never get diabetes or high blood pressure. No cough medicine or allergy medicine either, that’s annoying. I hope you don’t have any serious allergies, because EpiPens sure as shit count as “drugs”.
Nitrous is great
Alcohol.
To expand on the urinary issues ketamine causes, the problem is that ketamine will recrystallize inside your blatter and ketamine crystals can be pretty sharp.
Ketamine is definitely up there with ‘hip’ drugs not worth trying.
Along with MDMA and Xanax.
I don’t really respect anyone who does these because they’re usually living a lifestyle that leads to nowhere.
MDMA not worth it? It’s euphoria and love in a pill, not addictive, and quite safe when you do not abuse it. Millions of people use it and have been using it for about half a century and the vast majority of it restricts it to when they’re partying with few side effects. I think you misjudge its use a bit.
Yes it can be acutely abused because you’re chasing the dragon on nights that you do use it, but that is also a result of its illegal nature and a lack of education.
Of the chemical variants of drugs, I’d say it’s probably one of the few that is actually worth it, besides LSD.
You’d be shocked by how many very successful and incredibly intelligent people have used drugs (including MDMA). Many still use them regularly. MDMA, in the right setting and in moderation, can (will) be a life-affirming and beautiful experience.
This honestly sounds like something a child would say after having D.A.R.E. in elementary school.
Do you know any of them personally?
I know people like this. Though I should probably define regularly as once every few weeks for k. Probably closer to like 2 to 4 times a year for MDMA. Obviously if you’re doing stuff every day then you won’t be productive in a job
You literally just replied to one, my guy.
And yes, I know plenty of people like that. And chances are, so do you. You just don’t know it.
Edit; in case you’re young, I don’t want anyone to take this as evidence that “drugs are ok”, or “they lied to us about cannabis/MDMA, so that means they lied about heroin too.” No. This is why we’d be much better off if they were just honest from the beginning. Not all drugs are created equal, but also the classification system in the US (and most modern nations) is not necessarily based on potential harm.
So to be clear, my comment is not necessarily true for all drugs, I am specifically referring to MDMA right now (which, before becoming illegal, was used by doctors to great effect as an aid in couples’ therapy).
Hmmm, I don’t know the second one but mdma is great fun. Of course you have to be in a good state of mind before trying, but it’s a potent empathogen that has its uses.
One of the most fun nights of my life is when I went to visit a friend at his university, we took some and he immediately ended up with some girl and disappeared on me.
So I decided that I would just wander his campus looking for parties. I took shots with frat boys, danced with some gays guy out dressed in drag, played chess with some guy on the quad (he would have destroyed me even if I was sober), found another friend and went and partied with her and her lesbian friends (“wait you’re a lesbian now?” “Maybe not sure”) and then made the biggest mistake of my life when I turned down joining them when I was making a hasty exit after I noticed one of the girls was eating the other out right next to me on the couch.
wild 😁 Yea I get how you’d want a do over heheh
My experience is very vanilla coming after yours, but we had some of that and spent the entire night in my last floor apartment just chatting and drinking looking at the sea. It was full moon too. At one point I must have thought it was around midnight, I peeked at the east-facing window in my room and a big ball of fire was burning on the horizon. Time really flew this night…