- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
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One unstated thing that helps create conditions for the above:
The people above pictured don’t have robust unions and labor laws that save you from being annihilated for being
latenot early enough one time.💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚 💚
Hopefully, we’ll see more and more street reclamation, with cars pushed to parking lots and downtown streets reserved for walking, bicycling, and the occasional small electric vehicle for those who need them. Local laws need to change, so we all need to vote in local elections. Voter turnout for local elections is abysmal in most cities and towns.
We used to have places like Der Wienerschnitzel and Taco Bell with tables outside, but you still had to drive there and park. I don’t know if new places are built like this anymore, probably not many. The last gasp of this sort of thing in America.
That wienerschnitzel looks so similar to a hamburger stand/wienerschnitzel down the street from me. I’m honestly convinced it’s an old photo of it
Does Europe have the bikini barista stands like we have out here? Those are Starbucks biggest competition.
Well, that and unions.
In all fairness, Starbucks in Europe even in more car centric countries are a lot more like the bottom one.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a drive-in to get coffee around these parts, and I’ve lived in several European countries.
You have to go,… I mean drive, to some car centric wastelands for that, next to highway interchanges and big car centric shopping malls maybe.
Surely the bottom picture should be an Italian piazza. French coffee culture is not much to write home about (they lean towards robusta rather than arabica, as that’s what their colonies grew) and the coffee you get in a pretty café in the touristy parts of Paris is going to be mediocre at best.
Yeah I for sure have time to sit down and drink a coffee at a cafe before work…
sure you do. in the car. on the freeway. it is your ‘cafe’. breakfast and coffee in your mobile ‘cafe’ as you move your vehicle forward two car lengths every five minutes for an hour.
You are making a point, just not the one you intended to make. The first coffee shop is selling to people who want a nice place to slowly enjoy their cup of coffee. The second coffee shop is targeting commuters who want to grab a coffee to drink while they are driving into work.
USA vs the world.
?
As soon as you land… leaving the imperial core… it is ssoooooo much better.
Not fair. 'Murrican Super Size Drive-in versus European Coffee House. The first can never win this game.
My main takeaway here is that people drinking Starbucks are not enjoying their coffee
Mine is that drive-through is a huge mistake and should not be allowed anywhere.
My main takeaway is that the people in the top image are overworked and rushed and the people in the second image are more relaxed and less stressed.
That’s more like 10 people on the first image
And it’s 15 in the second
I counted 18, but that’s only outside
I thought about that but then one could argue that maybe the Starbucks is full of pedestrians, too
I was gonna say, these people moat likely dirve by themselves. And probably live less than a km away
The nearest Starbucks to me is a little over ~3km and I live in a major metropolitan area in the US.
My work is ~6.4km away and the Starbucks would be roughly on the way. It takes ~15 minutes for me to get to work by car. It would take ~2 hours to walk there, ~35 minutes to bike (weather permitting) and ~1 hour by bus.
Stopping at the drive thru on my way would still take less time overall and I’d have coffee. I don’t do it because Starbucks’s coffee is trash.
I’d love to not have to drive so much but infrastructure changes take a long time to happen so until alternative transportation is competitive I’ll be driving.
Biking for half an hour sounds fine to me if infrastructure is ok.
Eh, don’t be too sure about only living a km away. I know growing up the nearest grocery store was about 12 km away. The nearest place to get coffee was further away.
Fast forward to today the nearest grocery store is only 1.5 km away, but there’s no sidewalk and the road is so narrow that you can’t walk on the shoulder. You could ride a bike, but there’s no bike lane so you’ll be hoping the whole way that no one runs you over.
The car issue is a lot more complex than “American Lazy LOL” it’s an infrastructure issue that was set in to effect almost 50 years before I was born. Designed to serve the car manufacturers and to sell cars.
And to keep out icky poor people and brown people from suburban neighborhoods. Don’t forget that part. In fact that was a large part of why the car manufacturers were able to have infrastructure built this way.
Don’t forget forcing sprawl by blocking apartments and denser urban cores through local building codes. Decentralization/sprawl was forced for any new housing to be built
One is a city (Paris) as a tourist hotspot, the other is a rural area. One seems to be people getting coffee to and from work (the shadows make it look early morning, so more likely to), the other requires they have time to enjoy. I don’t really see it as a very effective argument.
Tourist spot will always beat urban spot in terms of pure aesthetics - that’s why it’s a tourist spot. The streets around Cafe Palais Royal aren’t even that pedestrian-centric, they are just small Paris streets with small sidewalks whose streets have yet to be really pedestrianized.
since there are café, like this one in every other corner of Paris… and it is not a Paris things, all city/village in Europe have a decent number of café even in the less tourist area ever. A 2k habitant village, will have its central café. The moment the café goes away, is usually a sign, the village is dead
Rural areas have more space and can more easily accommodate external seating.
The cafe in Paris indeed extremely central and I would assume akso pretty touristy. Ironically enough it is on a fairly car centric road.
All of that does not change the fact that modern transit/bike/pedestrian neighbourhoods, built for locaks, not tourists are much more like the Parisian cafe than the drive through hell above, that includes bakeries for you to-go demands.
The US drive-thru urban sprawl hellscape is pretty unique to North America. The bottom picture didn’t have to be central Paris, you could find a similar motif in countless places.
You present it as if the bottom picture is the unusual one, when in reality it is the top one for almost all the world.
when in reality it is the top one for almost all the world.
I didn’t know Cafe Palais Royal were so prolific! I mean, if you want to use bad examples because they are more photogenic, it’s up to you. Plenty of less iconic shops with pedestrianized streets that image could have come from, sure. I think you have more of a point with the “
urbanrural sprawl hellscape” in US rural planning, but a place with more people density is going to have more of a soul regardless.Every cafe in Australia has this same arrangement. Tables spreading outside, crammed inside, fucken amazing coffee and often tons of people.
Ditto in most of Europe, both in cities and small towns.
Pretty much the only requirement is that the weather outside is good enough for at least part of the year and there’s enough room on the sidewalk.
You don’t need that many people to have cafés with outside seating. Basically speaking, if your town is big enough to have a pedestrian zone it’s big enough to have those. Heck, my hometown lacks a café or a pedestrian zone but does have a bakery with outside seating and it’s rural enough that you can smell the pig stables from any point in town.
It’s more a question of whether you’re willing to dedicate space for people to be outside (rather than just traveling from A to B) and whether people actually want to be outside. Culture matters a lot here. Where I’m from people will happily use outside seating right next to a busy arterial road because sitting outside when the weather is nice is seen as desirable.
As for urban vs. rural, a six-lane road practically screams “urban sprawl”; that’s the kind of road generally associated with major population centers in Europe. I know that many municipalities in the States like to overbuild their car infrastructure to the point where you can walk nowhere and then wonder why there’s so much traffic. But from a European perspective that very much looks like a commercial zone on the outskirts of a big city.
A local cafe near Me has a seating area inside to enjoy a coffee with friends, and a window facing outside to get a coffee on the go. There’s no car access, you have to walk there. There are always customers, many of them very busy, and it’s a much nicer place to be than this picture of a Starbucks.
Also I don’t think this is rural. There’s a six lane stroad visible on the right. This is a city. It just looks rural, because the Americans spread everything out so much. I don’t think all these shiny SUVs are on their way to a goat farm. I think the Americans are sprawling everything out with hectares upon hectares of concrete and asphalt and then claiming to be rural.
I don’t think all these shiny SUVs are on their way to a goat farm.
I don’t think you realize what the US urban environment is, if goat farms are your criteria. Plenty of rural towns with roads like that in the US. I mean, if you want to redefine rural to goat farms and can’t have too much concrete and asphalt so you don’t have to recognize the image with the “JUSTURBAN” watermark, you do you. That’s rural to me. There are actually better examples in cities, but it’s actually more likely to spot lines like this in rural environments because the workers can’t usually walk out of their work and go to the nearest place for a sip.
A local cafe near Me has a seating area inside to enjoy a coffee with friends,
But was it photogenic enough to make a quick pretty meme that doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny about it?
I live in a country where drive through isn’t that common. But when a huge local e-shop introduced pickup by drive through, I decided to try it out. I tried it twice. First time it was relatively empty so I though “Hah, that’s actually pretty convinient and fast”. Second time it was pretty packed and I thought “Omg this must be the stupidest idea ever. What am I doing here? I’m sitting in an artificial traffic jam which I literally can’t leave while employees handle a fraction of customers at once. And why exactly? So I don’t leave my car?”
