Anyone who thinks he is defending himself is a fucking moron proof is in the pudding
She tries to stop him grabbing his drink, must’ve known something was coming. He kicks he when she’s down.
What else do you idiots need? Humans are worthless
Nathan Seale has been charged with 4th degree assault.
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Yeah delete your comment idiot.
They both suck. She initiated the physical confrontation. He went too far. She went back for more grabbing a weapon (the bottle) when it was clear she was out matched. A night in the drunk tank would be good for both of them.
You’re outside your mind thinking she initiated anything. At no moment was he unable to leave. Every action he took was aggressive every action she took was preventative.
If I see someone reach for a drink and then instantly it is thrown in their face, it’s clear what they expected and why they went for the drink.
He’s insane for escalating so extremely, but that drink went towards his mouth before she grabbed.
You’re on crack… In no world is her repeatedly invading his space, even with a dangerous weapon in hand, “preventative”. She kept moving forward, he kept backing up.
Honestly, people unable to see her aggression because she’s a woman are fucking misogynists.
You’re a fucking moron lmfao
Sigh… k
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we need context. blend the gender stuff out.
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Throws drink in face, shoves, kicks, shoves.
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Reaches for bottle before drink thrown in face, reaches for bottle a second time but does nothing with it.
Those are the actions both parties took. You’re out of your mind to think context is even needed. At no moment was she stopping him from leaving he initiated and continued. Are you brain dead?
Of course you can’t judge without context: we can’t understand. We don’t know their relationship, their history, nor what they say to each other.
Context may make thing even worse for the guy? Or maybe his reaction is, still not pardonable, but more understandable with the context?
Getting the context doesn’t mean your favorit side will loose anything. But judging without context is accepting to deliver unfair judgements.
Or maybe his reaction is, still not pardonable, but more understandable with the context?
There isn’t acceptable context for how he kicked her while she was on the ground nor for hitting her at the end.
According to her friend, it was their second date and she told him she didn’t want to se him anymore. Someone else posted the article with her friend’s version of the story, yesterday with two links. Here is the one without a paywall :
I fail to see how he supposedly attacked her first…
This blog is not a news source.
Look how non aggressive he is. He definitely didn’t stand up and b-line to kick her while she’s down
What a dip shit you are
Ok but like maybe she literally killed his dog.
That’s why context is important.
He’s probably a shithead though.
And there is not a fair judgement without understanding of the context.
I may illustrate with two different possible contexts, most likely none apply here, the point is to show you that your judgement may not be the exact same:
A: They are from the same family and she comes-out to him as a lesbian, and that her actual partner she plans to marry has an other ethnical origine. The anger and violence of the guy is their based on homophobia and racism which adds to the physical aspect.
B: He was a soldier in some military conflict and has traumas. Some flashbacks make him violent. He would need meds but can’t afford them anymore due to life cost rising. In this scenario, the violence is not even related to his victime.
You don’t need to invent scenarios to justify his actions here. There is plenty of evidence on the video to know that he is in the wrong.
If you take the scenario A as a justification, we clearly don’t have the same idea of justice.
Not siding with him, it seems likely he was in the wrong. But regarding your comment. Hypothetically, let’s say he is the recipient of constant abuse. Both verbal and physical, and this was him finally snapping and giving it back. Let’s say he has been on the receiving end of his fair share of kicks whilst down. Let’s say he previously never wanted to fight back because he isn’t violent.
I am not saying that is what happened. But i am saying you cant say “there isn’t acceptable context” when it took me 5 seconds to think of some.
He is still responsible for his actions. Previous abuse does not excuse assaulting this woman multiple times in this scenario.
Why are you playing devil’s advocate for this man?
Sorry, i wasn’t clear enough.
As far as we can tell this man is at fault. He has assaulted this woman.
I was only pointing out that your blanket statement that there is no context in which this is justified is incorrect. And frankly the attitude is dangerous. Is there any context where the woman can pick up a glass bottle to use as a weapon? Considering the level of harm a glass bottle would cause? Perhaps the justification is she is being attacked by a man that is apparently much stronger than she is? Does that justify it? Or does it only work one way?
Again. I agree. Given all available evidence, it seems this man has unjustly assaulted this woman. But your attitude towards this is just basic.
Why is it my favorite side? I don’t know these people don’t put anything on me.
Context will only clear up one thing, why did she put her hand on the glass and if you could argue it was simple battery. Which would be unlikely because most judges find frivolous charges like that unnecessary without some kind of history of actions or whatever. Putting your hand on someone’s glass in an isolated situation is not simple battery.
On the flip side responding with violence because a hand was put on your glass is likely assault. Escalation, specific intent to harm and multiple violent interactions require zero context. We don’t need to know anything for that.
If he was afraid for his life his body language and the rest of his actions didn’t support that. She never prevented him from leaving.
If you think in any situation his reaction is understandable you’re being completely stupid, there’s no reason to put your hands on someone like this in this situation.
So I am being completly stupid, I am fine with it.
But while I do not understand what happend, I don’t pretend I do.
What is she telling him? I have no idea, and that could (or not) be part of the explaination.
His reaction looks like anger. It may not be. But it looks like it. Yet what causes this anger? Is it understandable to be angry in such cases?
Anger should not allow us to be violent, and he is wrong to beat her. One this I totally agree. But no, I can’t judge the cases.
Yes you absolutely can. He assaulted her. Anyone in this thread leaning away from that is defending this situation and looking for justification for his actions.
It’s assault. It’s fucking gross.
Once more, the context, the full story, may not make things better for him.
He may deserve a stricter punishment than you would be willing to give him without the context.
Understanding is not defending him. It is defending the research of a fair judgement.
I especially invite you to think about the fact he could be reacting judgementaly to that she says, without taking the time to understand fully. As you are reacting now. And that it would be very wrong of him.
Thank you. I get tired of people being white knights and such. It might be the way it looks, it might not be. Without context anyone is just guessing.
Without context anyone is just guessing.
There is no justification here for how he assaulted her. It’s not white knighting to know that he is in the wrong.
The only action that needs context is touching the bottle. None of his actions could be justified no matter what.
Context is she was breaking up with him. Add or remove that, the situation is outlandishly disgusting behavior and you’re literally trying to justify it. Doing anything but calling it what it is, misogynistic and assault is justifying it.
Notice the whole crowd defending his actions are also trying to claim it isn’t misogynistic? Interesting.
It certainly is, and this is why I’ve been volcel for four years.
You’re a misogynist, woman are capable of aggression.
She invades his space, trying to grab his drink. That’s primary aggression. She approaches him (!) with a bottle in hand, that’s a threat with a dangerous weapon.
Meanwhile he:
Throws drink in face (unnecessary but not dangerous) Repeatedly tries to back up while she appraoches. Pushes her to regain personal space (most non-violent possible reaction)
Instigates the aggression, continues aggression. Escalates the aggression. Defending himself. Sure.
Absolute scumbag shut up
Are you blind or just a misogynist who cant accept that women are human beings capable of aggression?
Are you fucking retarded like actually?
She touches his drink, he throws it in her face. She stands up and reaches for him. He throws her down, THEN HE STANDS UP AND KICKS HER.
She stands up again unsure what aggression will continue because this cunt has instigated violence and then escalated violence. He shoves her to the ground.
He could’ve left, left again, left a third time. He didn’t. You’re a fucking moron if you think anything else, so I guess you’re a fucking moron.
Fucking thank you for speaking up in here.
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I hope she’s okay and I hope that piece of shit gets some time behind bars.
Did I forget to take my meds?
How are most people here defending the person repeatedly initiating unwanted contact and not the person defending themselves?? He used the minimum amount of force necessary to maintain his personal space while she threatened him with a bottle(!), do you have any idea how dangerous a bottle can be as a weapon?
P.S. You people are so second-wave, probably millennials
He used the minimum amount of force necessary to maintain his personal space
Yeah delivering a kick to her while she’s on the ground after he shoved her is the minimum amount of force necessary, I’m sure.
She was well within her rights to protect herself after that.
dISgUStiNg beHaVioR!!
“Behaving himself”
You better take some meds and wear some glasses, maybe go to school because you’re clearly wasting oxygen with the way you think. Holy fuck some people are worthless
These are both trashy people, but you have the mindset of an abuser if you call that “minimum.”
Also you use millennial as an insult because you’re feelings got hurt? Sounds like snowflake behavior to me.
Be better.
what did the lady do?
we see nothing to make her trashy in this video
She started the aggressive behavior, though she didn’t succeed. Either way, she didn’t deserve what that walking pile of garbage did to her.
lol that is stretching way too far
i’m not of the opinion that a man should never hit a woman given where i grew the women can be bigger and hit harder but there was nothing there justifying anything physical
you cannot tell me you think that man was defending himself
I’m not.
I literally said she didn’t deserve this.
You are an incel, in case you didn’t realize that already. My goodness, man. This is the behavior of a future murderer of women. You need to interact with more live humans if you think this is acceptable in any way.
Anyone being harassed by deft here, just know that this great defender of women likes to blame them for things men do:
Accusing random woman of being a bad mother is apparently OK now.
Hey now don’t neglect to add that YOU initiated talking to me by replying to my comment accusing me of being some other (female I’m assuming) poster because apparently she hurt your feelings in a past post? Definitely not weird of you at all.
Also what’d you mean by this?
Oh, so it’s just a coping mechanism. I mean… whatever helps you. Peace ✌️✌️
How about you just show your mom this post? You can tell her you stood up to the nasty name calling man and bravely told him maybe if he spoke nicely he could change those innocent, helpless misogynists’ minds but because he’s so big bad and mean, he failed to do so. What a meanie!
Just tell her some dick is running around calling everyone a moron, an idiot and even worse things because he’s apparently coping(?) over the abuse of a random woman. It couldn’t be that he’s just choosing not to tolerate people defending the man who did this.
Wonder what’d she say 🤔
Wonder what’d she say 🤔
She will not say anything because she doesn’t care about me, don’t you remember?
Hey, maybe the guy in the video was also raised by a neglectful mother? Why not try blaming her for what he did?
But seriously, you can stop now. The mask came off. Your instinctive reaction to put a blame on woman tells us everything. You’re just as misogynistic as anyone here.
Weak bait. Go sit in your corner stupid boy.
Awful
Dude needs to be locked up before he kills someone. Disgusting behavior
This facebook post is the only source of the context here. No news stories or anything so far.
This still just quotes facebook.
That’s a blog, not a news outlet
To justify a kick while on the ground she must have said something the equivalent of “I am going to murder your cat while you sleep” and I doubt that is what happened. What likely happened is she said something that hurt his ego and instead of expressing his reaction verbally, he acted like the man child he is and started flailing his arms and legs. If this is the case he should be banned from every bar with a ten km radius of where he lives and from all the dating apps too.
To justify a kick while on the ground she must have said something the equivalent of “I am going to murder your cat while you sleep” and I doubt that is what happened.
To justify the kick, he merely needs a reasonable belief that she was getting up to continue striking him, and that his use of force was intended to stop this continued threat.
She had just regained her balance and she was getting up. The kick knocked her back over, putting her back on the ground.
The kick pissed me off, but it is not unreasonable to believe she was rising to continue her initial attack. Some level of force against her is justifiable under that condition.
Which initial attack? She was getting up and probably using arms as balance. Why would you extend out your arms in a wide angle if you are trying to attack? There are myriad ways to attack from that position including a punch or going for the throat or taking something from the table and throwing it, none of which she seems to do. You can at this point only speculate that she was trying to attack not really prove it.
On a second look it is also not super clear if she was using arms as balance as she was moving towards him at the same time. It is still not clear what was her physical intensions though. Maybe she would just push him because she got angry? I think nevertheless kicking someone without the clear intention of equivalent physical harm can not be justified.
Which initial attack?
The grabbing of the glass was unjustified, but not an attack. The throwing of the liquid at her was unjustified (but provoked), and also not an attack. The initial “attack” was when she stood up and began striking him in the face.
She was getting up
The rest of your comment on this point is irrelevant. She was knocked done because she had attacked him, and she was getting up before he had a chance to back away. If he reasonably believed she was getting up to continue striking him, he was justified in putting her back on the ground.
You can at this point only speculate that she was trying to attack not really prove it.
Correct. Absolutely correct. I can’t prove it; he can’t prove it. But, if you look at the laws governing use of force, he doesn’t have to conclusively proven her intention to continue the attack. All that has to be shown is that a reasonable person in his position would believe she continued to pose a threat, and he is justified in using a level of force a reasonable person would deem necessary to stop that threat.
With him on trial, I don’t have to prove she intended to continue her attack. With him on trial, you have to prove his belief that she would attack is unreasonable, and/or that the kick was more force than was necessary to stop that attack. Unless he confesses that his intent here was to cause harm rather than to stop her from causing harm, I don’t think that burden can be met.
I think nevertheless kicking someone without the clear intention of equivalent physical harm can not be justified.
That is incorrect. The standard is not “clear intention”. The standard is “reasonable belief”. As soon as she began striking him, she opened the door to a reasonable use of force to stop the threat she posed.
she stood up and began striking him in the face.
From what I see, she never striked him. The point where you claim she is striking him on the face is only her getting up and extending her arms. It might be anything from trying to strike him on the face to an angry push. Pushing someone that you think is trying to push you? Yes reasonable. But for anything more than that, It does not seem to even provide enough evidence for a reasonable belief of anything more than a shove.
It might be anything from trying to strike him on the face to an angry push. Pushing someone that you think is trying to push you? Yes reasonable.
You have conceded that she used force, and that he was justified in using some degree of force to stop her. We don’t have to answer the question of whether it was a strike or an angry push. All we need to know is that he was, at least at this specific moment, justified in using some level of force to stop her. You’ve indicated that a “push” was a reasonable level of force.
You are justified in using any level of force you reasonably believe necessary to stop a threat of harm. She attacked him in some way, he pushed her to the ground. She immediately rose to her feet: can you conclusively demonstrate that, at this specific moment in time, it was wholly unreasonable to believe she was rising to continue her attack?
If you can’t conclusively prove she was harmless at this point, then, under use-of-force laws, the kick could (potentially) be justified as an attempt to stop her continued attack.
We don’t have to answer the question of whether it was a strike
This was a direct claim from you. You did not even present it as a possible scenerio, you said she striked him in the face, multiple times. Is this something that you think is visible from the video? If not why did you make this claim?
You have conceded that she used force,
Nope, all I have said is that she did not strike him in the face and that her movement towards him could be anything including a shove. I wouldn’t even consider it a lunge, so as it stands, it is a very hard sell for reasonable grounds for suspecting harm. Nevermind proportionality aspect of kicking the woman who may or may not have tries to push you. And this is something you have been glossing over.
If you can’t conclusively prove she was harmless
At this point we are acting only on suspicion. I don’t think one can conclusively prove that she was initially trying to be harmful either. But lets assume that he really suspected that she meant physical harm and pushed her. At that point, until she gets up and tries to attack (assuming that was her intention to start with), the threat is assumed to be paused. Otherwise what is the difference between one kick and ten kicks? What you defend suggests he should be able to kick her as long as she tries to get up which is open to abuse. So kicking at that point is considered retaliation and it is your duty to retreat if you are in a public space and not your home.
But lets assume that he really suspected that she meant physical harm and pushed her. At that point, until she gets up and tries to attack (assuming that was her intention to start with), the threat is assumed to be paused.
Correct, except for
and tries to attack
She doesn’t need to try to attack. He merely needs to reasonably believe she is continuing her attack.
the threat is assumed to be paused.
While she is on the ground and unable to attack, that is true. If she stayed on the ground, he would have no justification to continue. But, she didn’t stay on the ground. She was back on her feet and beginning to stand when she was kicked.
Otherwise what is the difference between one kick and ten kicks?
Kicking the attacker before they attempt to continue their attack would not be justified.
If an attacker keeps trying to get up and fight 9 times, the 10th kick would be justified.
This was a direct claim from you. You did not even present it as a possible scenerio, you said she striked him in the face, multiple times. Is this something that you think is visible from the video? If not why did you make this claim?
It is clearly visible in the video. When you conceded that it could be an “angry push” rather than a “strike”, I didn’t need to belabor the point. An “angry push” is sufficient to justify a forceful response.
Nope, all I have said is that she did not strike him in the face and that her movement towards him could be anything including a shove.
You say “Nope” and then describe only circumstances where she used force: a “shove” (previously “angry push”) is a use of force.
Nevermind proportionality aspect
“Proportionality” is not a factor in the use of defensive force. The relevant consideration is “reasonably believed necessary to stop the threat”.
Where defensive force is justified, substantially greater force can be justified. If a relatively lesser threat cannot be reasonably stopped except with a substantially greater defensive force, the substantially greater defensive force is justified.
“Reasonably believed to be necessary to stop the threat”.
The threat in this case is the use of her arms to [strike|angry push|shove] him, which is the forceful behavior she was engaging in when she initially stood.
You have to show that it was unreasonable to believe she was attempting to continue this behavior if you want to demonstrate that his use of force was unjustified.
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Guys a piece of shit for sure but if you are in a self defense scenario please do not react the same way this lady did, it will be hard for the courts to see her as a victim after she grabs a weapon to confront the aggressor as he is trying to leave. If you do want to fuck someone up for slighting you/splashing beer in your face, consider learning some sort of self defense/martial art. Untrained men vastly overestimate how well they would perform in a fight and a smaller, weaker person would be able to overcome them with a few years practice
It’s better to just not get into a bar fight at all. That woman could have easily hit her head and got brain damage. Not worth it to tell off some asshole.
Missing a lot of context and no idea whose drink was at the beginning (was he grabbing her drink? was she trying to grab his?), but I’d say he was wrong for kicking her (not self defense) and wrong for using potentially deadly force when he pushed her violently to the ground at the end (not an appropriate response to her threatening him with the beer bottle). Pushing somebody like that in self defense and then retreating, is fine in an open field. In a cluttered area like this, high risk of concussion (which looks to have happened here).
Watching throughout the video, there are two glasses on the table, and he grabs the one closer to him. Hers appears to be empty at this time.
not an appropriate response to her threatening him with the beer bottle
In a physical altercation, a beer bottle is considered a deadly weapon. We’ve seen too many Hollywood-style, sugar-glass bottles being broken over people’s heads to really think of them that way, but the reality is that the shattering of a glass bottle in a fight can easily cause severe lacerations to the face, eyes, neck, etc. He had already shown that he was retreating from the altercation when she picked up the bottle and confronted him. That final shove was the most defensible act of the entire altercation.
The kick will be the hardest act for his lawyer to explain.
The kick will be the hardest act for his lawyer to explain.
The kick is assault.
The kick is assault.
Battery, but that’s a fairly minor distinction. I will admit that the kick really pissed me off.
But, the kick came as she was getting back up from being justifiably shoved away after having lunged over the table and striking him unjustifiably. He could argue he believed she was getting up to continue striking him, and that the kick was only to keep her from further attacking him while he retreated. If he shuts up and lets his lawyer explain that, it probably won’t be considered unjustifiable. It would probably be considered reasonable doubt. The kick will be hardest to explain, but it is certainly possible.
The kick did not piss you off. You spent the last two hours doing laps in this comment section blaming her.
The kick did not piss you off.
It certainly did. That’s what “questionable” means here. It means that before applying the legal precedent of “innocence until proven guilty” and “benefit of a reasonable doubt”, my immediate, snap judgment was to be pissed off at the kick. Only after closely considering the circumstances of the kick did I arrive at the conclusion of “questionable”. I, personally, don’t think the kick was necessary at that moment. But, in this context, I can’t definitively conclude that. I provided a hypothetical mindset where his actions would be reasonable. If those circumstances were present in his trial, I would have to afford him reasonable doubt and acquit.
On the other hand, if she’s the one on trial, I would have to afford her reasonable doubt, and conclude that the kick was unjustified. I don’t think that kick would significantly affect the outcome of her trial, but I would consider it in her favor regardless.
Lmfao trying to change the definition of a word so you can backtrack, nah man. Fuck off. You were practically spitting on this woman’s actions with your words in this thread and acted like her touching a bottle twice was ASSAULT!!! You wrote page after page of text to justify his actions.
You’re disgusting and now you’re pathetic too. Shut the fuck up.
I am, indeed, “spitting on this woman’s actions”, regardless of my anger toward him. I found one minor and one potential fault in his actions. I found several serious faults in hers. I have carefully, and dispassionately evaluated the scenario, and I have found considerable fault on her part.
I am continuing to discuss it only to ensure that I have thoroughly explored all reasonable possibilities.
For context:
This is what you said.
She grabbed his drink. Assault.
She tried to stand back up; he kicked her back to the ground. Questionable
You’re a fucking moron.
Questionable here means you’re mad? You fucking absolutely disgusting shit. Shut the absolute fuck up
Here, questionable does, indeed, mean that I’m pissed off about the kick. As I said, my initial knee-jerk reaction was to condemn him for the kick. “Questionable” arises from one hypothetical possibility that would make my anger inappropriate. Legal doctrine requires the assumption of that hypothetical possibility until conclusively proven otherwise.
Are you a moron?
Velma, is that you?
I ignored this comment because I didn’t know what the hell you were talking about but now I realize you’re just a fuckin idiot.
Of course I am. You’re the only smart person here. We’re so lucky to be blessed by your high IQ comments like “Are you a moron?”, “you’re just a fuckin idiot” or “Moron shit to say”. You’re truly the ray of wisdom in this land of intellectual darkness. In the name of the whole lemmy community: thank you for being here.
Everyone I am replying to is being absolutely silly in the head. They’re trying to argue was or was not this woman a victim of assault.
She was. There’s no argument. Are you really spending more energy policing my tone instead of the absolute lying falsehoods these people wanna peddle? Whatever bub.
Your tone is just a reflection of your intelligence. Calling everyone idiots and morons is the dumbest thing you can do here. It’s not going to change anyone’s mind. It will just make everyone stop listening and radicalize their views.
Also, not everyone you’re attacking or calling an idiot claims she’s not a victim. You’re misreading comments and lashing out. Bub.
There’s an old aphorism among trial lawyers:
When the law is on your side, pound the law.
When the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
When neither the law nor the facts are on your side, pound the table.
It’s pretty clear who in this thread is pounding the law and the facts, and who is pounding the table.
First of all, as I said above. Anyone who enters this post and isn’t immediately seeing the woman has done nothing wrong is an idiot.
Secondly, the problem with misogynistic boneheads isn’t my tone being impolite. If my being rude is going to make someone “radicalize” their views further being nice wasn’t the thing holding them from changing their views.
This woman is a victim of assault. Period. Any argument otherwise is stupid and deserves to be treated as such. I do not understand people like you who think tone policing and trying to pull some “well if you were nicer I wouldn’t be a misogynist!” Is a valid argument. That is the dumbest shit to say like ever.
I haven’t misread shit. Mr. wannabe lawyer man and dummy who thinks kicking someone is “qUeStiOnAbLe” while touching a drink is assault is fucking goofy. Calling me a misogynist because they’re convinced I’m trying to white knight or something is stupid as fucking hell. Those people can go shower with an appliance.
Also if you think I’m “lashing out” because I’m angry this woman got fucking kicked and shoved, yeah you’re fucking right. That’s disgusting behavior. You want me to act like some preschool teacher and hold people’s hands? Fuck out of here.
Funny seeing you in here pointing fingers at others. There are more people out there that recognize misogyny than myself.
Are you defending the guy in the video as well?
Love that I live rent free in your head <3
Oh, hi. Last time I’ve seen your comments you got banned so I thought that maybe you changed accounts. This person just gives off the same vibe (attacking blindly everyone expressing opinion that deviates from theirs).
If you care about my opinion on the video (haha, I’m sure you don’t) I see a drunk, disgusting man and a lady that vastly overestimates her fighting abilities. His behavior is inexcusable but what the fuck is she doing? If this was a bear she would be dead.
Flight, fight, freeze, or fawn are all involuntary reactions to being in danger.
They’re not attacking people blindly. They’re reacting to the blatant misogyny on display here from people defending this man’s actions.
Flight, fight, freeze, or fawn are all involuntary reactions to being in danger.
Yes and no. There are involuntary reactions in the face of danger (like increased blood flow, muscle tension, dilated pupils etc.) but people don’t start fighting involuntarily. Maybe you’re confusing it with startle response which is involuntary? In fight-or-flight response there’s a moment of assessment (hence dilated pupils, to let you see better) and the response is a conscious one. People don’t involuntarily get up, grab a beer bottle and advance threateningly towards danger as part of fight-or-flight.
Now you can call me a misogynist for thinking that people remain conscious in dangerous situations.
I don’t need to say anything when you’re inventing my arguments against you and erroneously accusing others of being me.
I hope you think of me every time you see a criticism of a sexist comment on the internet just as you did here.
Fuck that guy.
Don’t.
I wouldn’t.
Lemmy is never ever beating the misogynist allegations what the fuck is this dumpsterfire of a thread, she rejected him and the dude is just looking for excuses to take his anger out on her. That woman is a badass, all you people wanting her to just be still, demure and silent until the attacker leaves are the problem.
Don’t assume a noisy few are the majority.
That guy is a peice of shit.
There’s always some garbage in any community. It looks like, overall, people are alright. Most of Lemmy I’ve interacted with are great people, but there obviously are horrible people here too. There’s no way to avoid it really. You can block/ban them, but they can always make new accounts somewhere.
Yeah it wasn’t like this when I made my comment glad to be shown somewhat wrong, there is some hope lemmitors might be able to beat the allegations eventually
100% agree.
I see two triggers that might have caused this either he was rejected like you said or he reached a boiling point from her provoking him.
Either way it doesn’t excuse his behavior in any way. He attacked her. I hope he is arrested and prosecuted.
The picture in the post clarifies that she rejected him
she rejected him
Where do you get this from?
The guy is clearly a dangerous asshole with anger issues and his violent actions are completely reprehensible. He should be doing community service and taking therapy at a minimum, prison if she’s seriously injured (she appears to have hit her head on that bench at the end there - scary shit).
Everything below with a pinch of salt since we lack a lot of context - we don’t know what was said and what their relationship is (I’m not taking the social media post by the woman’s alleged friend at face value for now).
The man is definitely the one who deserves most of the blame in this interaction, but the woman is not innocent and I’m confused with people in this thread seemingly implying that she is.
She initiated the physical confrontation and never seems to try to deescalate. She may be a badass, but she also has bad judgement. I don’t want her to be still and demure, but I also don’t want people to think it’s a good idea to pick fights and prolong them.She grabs his drink while he’s trying to bring it to his mouth - this starts the physical altercation and could be interpreted as an act of aggression (realistically the guy just had his anger flare up and decided to splash it in her face - this is not self defense and I’m not defending it; but is it an escalation? Hardly, I think).
She then escalates by trying to slap him (inadvisable) and he pushes her back (this legitimately looks like self defense and is the only action in this entire incident that seems somewhat justifiable).
He kicks her after she falls down - escalation, malicious, indefensible.
As he appears to attempt to disengage (grabbing his stuff and turning to leave) she gets up, grabs an empty bottle and confronts him, holding it like a weapon. I doubt he was actually fearing for his safety but what was she thinking? Here it would have been quite useful to have audio for context. That said, she doesn’t raise the bottle for an attack nor step closer to him, so he could still (and should have!) disengage from the encounter.
(One could argue she picked up the bottle to defend herself but I’m skeptical - why did she walk all the way over to him instead of waiting for him to leave, as he appears to be trying to do?)Instead he goes ballistic and pushes her by the neck hard enough that she’s thrown backwards to the ground, hitting her head on the way down. This is a major unnecessary and indefensible escalation of violence and should really make him liable in court. He could have killed her for Christ’s sake!
Again, we don’t know what was said but my guess is she said something that angered him which triggered him into pushing her - absolutely reprehensible on his part if this is the case.Lessons for everyone:
- don’t be a raging asshole
- don’t push people in urban settings - it’s much more dangerous than you think
- don’t start fights with people, especially if there are no witnesses that could intervene when things get ugly
- if someone is trying to leave a fight, let them
lemmy.world is the biggest cesspool here, lemmy.ml and hexbear are much better on the whole “women are human beings” front
I’m not convinced hexbear is good on any front.
Hexbear is the most trans-inclusive and minority respectful internet community I’ve ever been to. I keep seeing people talking about it like it’s the gateway to hell but it’s usually a pretty friendly place when I’ve gone there, they just have… unorthodox politics and don’t back down when pressed. First time I went there I was a little disappointed to find it wasn’t full of demons gnawing on the bones of the innocent but was actually just a pretty chill place. And their news megathread has a lot people from 3rd world countries posting world news I don’t see other places which is mainly why I keep checking in there.
Yeah I go there regularly, I mostly like it. I’m just slightly miffed that I got banned from some comms here due to (I assume) some extremely mild comment (IIRC it was a single mod going over all the communities they managed banning me for “being a lib”). I couldn’t even find the “offending” comment, which was not a big surprise because I fucking despise neo liberalism and aren’t a fan of liberalism either.
I did comment in support of Ukraine once or twice in the timeframe of the bans, so… (and these were comments outside of .ml/hexbear) I’m not entirely sold on them. They have good shitposts and world news thread though, especially if you’re trying to get some informations from outside the Western sphere of influence
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🤷♀️ if you hate women you’d probably say that, they probably have the highest numbers of women as a percentage of active users
That matches what I’m seeing to mostly
Women are human beings and therefore capable of aggression. I see a man defending her invasions of his space in close to the most non-violent way possible.
I see a man defending her invasions of his space in close to the most non-violent way possible.
I would love to enact his form of nonviolence on you
And now he’s in jail, right?
Close - running for public office, I’d imagine.
Potato, tomato
In Kentucky?? They just put guys like him on the ballot.
i hope not, I’m from Kentucky, are you being hyperbolic or serious?
I hope those siblings are alright
Seems like two lovely people…
Two?
She never did anything in that whole video shut up
