They can and should, but Casemiro isn’t a great option behind them to play that system and without Martinez and Shaw we struggle to progress the ball up to them

Mount and Bruno did play as double 8s against Spurs and got exposed. Neither is very disciplined position wise.

IMO Ten Hag is not adapting to the box midfield that has taken over top level teams the past 2 years and no matter what he tries he ends up getting overrun in the midfield. So now he’s resorted to counter attack play.

I think teams can be limited in doing this based on their defensive mid(s). That was one of the things that made N’Golo Kante such a valuable player, he covered so much ground with such a high level of success that it gave his managers a lot of flexibility in terms of how they set up their other midfielders.

Well, I think it depends on the personnel in the team.

For example, KDB and Foden are playing as 10s/8s because they have a solid defensive structure in place in the form of Rodri and their situational back three.

However, certain teams that can be vulnerable in transition would not be able to do that. I think a good example is United as you’ve pointed out. At least, they aren’t in a good position right now until Varane, Martinez, and Amrabat return to full fitness.

But I am still open to the possibility that certain managers just decide not to or they think that a player cannot play that position.

Its not really much different from how some wide attackers can very effectively play as strikers, while others can’t. Or how some CBs can easily flex out to a wingback role and do well, while others simply can’t do that. Or how some players adapt between leagues very well after a transfer, while others adapt slowly or never do adapt to the tactical and physical demands of a new league.

Its usually a combination of that individual players skillset (including deficiencies / weaknesses) and the tactical approach as a whole. What a particular manager wants out of those roles, and what there is around them to support those players, will have a significant impact on the individual players effectiveness. Pep won’t be asking an 8 to do the exact same things as Ten Haag will, and that’s true of almost every manager in the league.

Mac Allister isn’t good in the 6 position he looks okay at it but it isn’t his natural position he’s just a temporary solution until we get a new one or until Endo gets more settled in which is very close in my opinion

But to your point it’s not about those players in those roles it’s about tactics and the players around them if you have Rodri or Walker for example on your side it works very as you your only job is to make them go in a different way that someone like Rodri is covering it already

Well I think the term ‘8’ and ‘10’ are far too rigid for what players might be doing. For example: Enzo is not an 8 in the same way De Bruyne is an 8 and De Bruyne isn’t an 8 in the same way Mount is an 8. Some of the CMs might do a lot of work tracking back while others might not do as much, some have more creative responsibilities than others and so on and so on. It heavily depends on the system they’re playing in.

Maddison I think

Peps system is so unique often times gundo who played the 8 went way ahead of de bruyne who played the 10. It’s more fluid in peps system, he puts players on the pitch and they naturally form triangles not based on position but based on who’s closest.

I think the main difference with Bruno is he doesn’t have wingers that are knowledgeable or skilled enough to play in triangles which prevents Bruno from being able to comfortably drop into the wider areas and play one twos

Unpopular Opinion: talking about positions using numbers is a bit wanky

Bruno, and to a lesser extent, Mount, are not positionally disciplined enough to play the 8 role.

There’s a huge difference in playing the 10 versus playing the 8, which is usually the 10 are given a free role to roam in many teams (offensively). This suits players like Bruno who is excellent in the free role but is unreliable in the modern positional game that require many 8 to occupy exact spaces in out of position phase.

All the players you list who can play 8 is positionally and defensively solid. With sufficient coaching, Bruno and Mount can succeed in the 8 role but they are not quite there yet.

There are basically no pure 10s or 8s or 6s or anything really, they are the standard molds to describe a player with certain qualities. No player really fits in them perfectly and we shouldn’t try to. Hell, there’s not even a clear definition of what an 8 or a 10 is. Some expect a 10 to be a pure playmaker and others expect them to be a shadow striker. An 8 is just a “box to box” but what does that even mean? Some may expect an 8 to be a ball carrying dribbler, others may see an 8 more as “can put in a tackle and can shoot from a pullback”, with not much care for their ball carrying.

Why can’t Mount and Bruno do it when Havertz and Ødegaard can? Because Bruno neither are good pressers/tacklers. Ødegaard is a pretty smart presser and has gotten better at tackling and Havertz’s defensive numbers are actually on par with Xhaka, partly thanks to his build: he’s tall enough to fight headers and despite being lanky as fuck, actually possess some strength.

brother, we are fucking useless whenever we don’t have a cdm. it has nothing to do with a forward playing mids. mctominay is, and always has been, a band aid to our cdm problem. if casemiro is on, and in form, we cannot do anything .

our last actual cdm before cas, was matic… think about it