A few more days. Please, just gotta hold off a week and a half. After that, I can shift gears from “Fuck’s sake please just support the non-fascist candidate against the literal fascist” to “These are the problems in this fucking country and they need to be addressed, and fuck Harris if she doesn’t”
Just spare us an immediate future of fascism. Buy yourselves, and ourselves, more time to work. Even if you think this is ONLY buying time, buy it. Because things are NOT going to be easier to organize under a fascist regime - and the idea that the more people suffer, the more they’re inclined towards your, specific, political views, is just not borne out by reality.
Third parties have some valid ideas and I don’t oppose voting them in down ballot to create an alternative to the two main parties.
But voting for them as presidential candidates right now means that I’m effectively voting against my ideals.
Until third parties have a presence at the national level it’s stupid to vote for one for president.
If you think Democratic presidents don’t get anything done with a Republican Congress just wait until both sides of both houses refuse to work with a third party president.
This is what I’ve been saying. Even if a third party somehow managed to win the Presidency, they still can’t do anything if Congress doesn’t play ball. And knowing Congress, they’re not going to. There’s zero base for a third party President to stand on because none have made the effort to win seats in the House and Senate.
And that’s not even taking into account the judges who get to rule on things, who have all been appointed by one of the two parties. Even if Congress works with them a judge can just throw it out.
I do think it depends on where you live. In about half of states, your vote for president is meaningless. Mississippi isn’t going blue and Massachusetts isn’t going red. In those cases, voting third party has the chance to effect future federal election funding.
But yeah, if you’re in a state with literally any chance at all of being a toss up, don’t vote 3rd party.
Voting dems down ballot is just as important. Don’t be a fool.
I’ve said my piece, you don’t have to agree.
If your ideals are support for genocide of the Palestinian people, letting states decide the rights of trans people, and fracking, you’re in luck, 2 excellent choices right at the top of your ballot
Way to miss the fucking point entirely there, champ.
No need to let pesky reality intrude on your idealistic utopian daydream I guess.
Let’s see what you do and say after the election. Bet it’s crickets.
Da. Is correct to show support for transphobia with voting of Harris. Also glorious third-party voting will ensure only the strongest leader will survive, much like the great leader Putin.
America has been supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people since before my parents were born. This election isn’t gonna change that.
If you have empathy get used to being disappointed by the US government and, well, everything else.
I can’t wait to talk about this country’s shit healthcare again from November 6, 2024 thru April, 2028.
Amuuurikah! Fuck yeah!
Edit: I have no idea what this is from, but somehow a ginormous flag-painted truck pooping out another, still giant flag-painted SUV that then proceeds to make a mess and what looks like endangering a child in a desert town, possibly of middle eastern origin, seems VERY American to me. Though I apologize for the appalling lack of bacon and guns, which I will henceforth rectify with this actually real picture:
It’s selection bias on their part, they’ll point to the fall of the Tsar and say “see, see, revolution comes from oppression!”, and ignore what happened to the communists in Germany, lol.
They really have a hard-on for violent revolution, when peaceful revolution may still be an option…
For anyone who honestly believes in third party stuff: try supporting ranked voting at the local and state level. Once we have more ranked voting at local and state levels, it will be easier to push that at the federal level, which is the best way to solve strategic voting problems in presidential elections.
Nobody would support ranked voting for presidential elections if that’s the first time they hear about it. But if people use it already in local elections, and see that it works better, then extending it to presidential elections is a logic choice.
Ranked choice baybeeee!
Ranked is better than our current system, but it still has a lot of flaws. Approval and STAR are better systems.
I’m not AmericanI’ve seen this meme shared going back to “3 months before the election”. When people have been protesting for way longer than that, and not only have they been ignored, but silenced, I’m not surprised when they turn to more drastic measures to be heard.
EDIT: well, this makes sense, it was you who posted the previous memes lol
They haven’t built any third party to anything meaningful yet.
I don’t think people are bringing up third parties because they will get elected, I think they’re bringing up third parties to show that these are not guaranteed, but still potentially obtainable votes, that if you take their demands into account, you will get their votes.
EDIT: again, not American
Nooo they just dum dummies!
Surely they don’t live in completely uncontested districts/states like fucking 84% of Americans.
No talk, no talk!
They just refuse to put the work in and parachute into the race in the last couple months and siphon a bunch of gullible votes off the people with a chance.
I’m curious under what definition you think Dr. Cornel West has refused to put the work in?
How many people is he running down ballot?
It’s literally a completely new party that just secured ballot access this year.
They haven’t built any third party to anything meaningful yet.
Sure “they” have! The Russians have built a third party that manufactures fake outrage and sows chaos that attempts to drive a wedge between left and far left opinions.
The fun won’t end after the election, and (won’t be) until Putin and his FSB are buried under the Kremlin.
Lemmy.ml is all about this right now. The idiots… They claim to want things to lean more left, then they help the right with their narrative.
Ever since coming here (Lemmy) I’ve started to develop a solid bias against the far left. They are defeating their own goals when they do this shit.
For the record, I’m independent but I vote blue because the GOP is insane.
I wouldn’t call ml far left.
if marxist-leninists aren’t far left who is?
Anarchists and similar are actually left.
MLs ar largely authoritarian cultists who self-identify as followers of dead white bros from hundreds of years ago. They’re not leftists. Many are right-wing “red fash”.
They’re all “tankies” to this crowd sadly.
/clears throat
Anarchists are the Ancaps of Leftism.
That’s auth left.
ngl, feels like holding in the worst fart. Can’t wait to start complaining again!
Bruh. Jill Stein isn’t even on the ballot in my state. She’s got no chance.
Despite my earlier organizing, there are no independents on anything down ballot.
I live in a swing state so, sorry De la Cruz, I can’t vote for ya.
Funny you should choose this meme picture of a Pakistani cricket fan when their third party actually succeeded because people didn’t fall for the usual two party propaganda of “they’ll never succeed until we first fix X problem”
Were they polling at 3% a week before election day? In a FPTP system? Without ballot access in enough areas to actually win the election they claimed to be running in?
Beautifully informative, thank you!
Removed by mod
Hi, I’m bloodfart. You may remember me from such posts as:
“I voted for party for socialism and liberation and you can too!”
And:
“They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel”.
But today I’m here to talk to you about how psl is eligible for enough electoral votes to win a landslide victory.
You see, people working on behalf of one of the two major parties often deploy the argument that a third party can’t win, so you shouldn’t vote for them. Due to the tireless work of politically active, committed anti genocide Americans just like yourself, psl can get 474 electoral votes this November!
So get out there and vote psl! She can win if you vote for her!
She can win if you vote for her!
What the literal fuck are you smoking
There was some dem candidate for whomst people said “she can win if you vote for her”.
It’s nice to bring out the ol’ throw back lines from time to time.
I see the bad faith actors making a final push.
And look! Here’s one now!
The PSL is a trash option. It has a barely above zero chance to successfully scratch its own ass let alone become a viable candidate. And in the event that they accidentally manage to get themselves elected, all their batshit promises they’ve made will never see the light of day because they don’t actually work when pressed against reality.
And reality is where we live.
DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO SPOIL THE ELECTION.
They are not here in good faith.
One batshit promise that a president de la Cruz could make good on is not supplying weapons to israel by executive order, conditioning non military aid on a ceasefire and halting aid approved by congress due to its illegality under international and domestic law using the power of the justice department.
Harris could make good on that too, but Harris is in favor of the genocide so she won’t.
Yeah, good thing I’m not a single-issue voter with a vote to waste.
Sounds awesome. Good luck with that. 👍
It is absolutely a bat shit promise. She has no clue how politics work to even suggest that she could do that. This is why no one is taking you or her seriously. She’s a nobody with about as much experience as she has a chance to win. Which is ZERO
It seems to me and from the responses you get, that from others, that you aren’t here in good faith. You’re obviously pushing a spoiler candidate. And you know it. So, having said that- it’s fair to think that you and those like you will probably vanish soon after the election.
It’s also fair to think that no one here will have a problem with this.
I agree with you though that I probably won’t be posting in the political memes community after the elections.
I browse by active/all and aside from the predictable ones blaming a Harris loss on the left I don’t think the community really interests me.
The only reason you see me here now is because in active/all there are a bunch of posts blaming me and people like me for the democrats failings or shaming us or our votes.
Once that goes away I probably will too.
And you’re right that people will probably be happy about it. No one likes to be confronted with the irrefutable fact that they are supporting genocide.
That really bugs me. This whole presidential election cycle has been pretty scary to be honest. I can’t imagine a scenario where Harris wins and her party decides to abandon the deportations, war, protest suppression, border wall and genocide that got them there.
So you admit to being a troll. Finally! It’s good for people to see you admit your purpose here.
I’m almost 100% sure that seeing something making fun of you and popping in to say “hey wait a minute!” Isn’t anyone’s definition of trolling.
How did you come to the conclusion that I’m a troll?
How did you come to the conclusion that I’m a troll?
Your words.
What stops the president from not sending weapons to israel by executive order? What stops the president from conditioning aid or stepping in when congress tries to send weapons to aid a genocide in contravention of domestic and international law?
We know what stops Biden and what would stop Harris: they support the genocide.
Rather than waving your hands and saying “politics”, why not examine why a president in the party opposite the democrats was able to stop israel almost 45 years ago.
The democrats of today seem to be to the right of Reagan in this matter.
People have been talking about third parties for months, but there’s always an excuse
You answered the prescient question - “months.” They need to work a base down ballot first so they can actually get anything done in Congress. No one wants to do the groundwork and thinks if we just elect a 3rd party candidate in the highest office everything else will follow.
Wat a pipe dream.
Every election there is some excuse as to why we can not pivot to third parties. To me the bad-faith actors are all these clowns who say oh lets not bring it up til we think its appropriate. Like when is it gonna be appropriate? Some of us were for the likes of Perot and Nader, its been literally 3 decades of people saying hush up third parties. Like at this point, you can only assume these people love the status quo, and they are willing to fight any deviation from it.
Seriously though. Liberals should focus their energy on turning rightoids onto their side as opposed to trying to shame leftists if they actually cared about things like genocide or the environment. They won’t because they’re cowards and would rather shame the left endlessly and claim to not understand why every election the left doesn’t see why “ThIs TiMe ItS dIfFeReNt” every election for like 70 years is annoying to leftists.
you’re in good company with the greatest contemporary minds this world has to offer; remind yourself of that fact if you ever wonder if you’re doing the right thing:
here’s one of those minds, an american named martin luther king jr saying the same thing you did:
… the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
Hah. I’m gonna just start posting that quote instead of bitching at liberals. Seems like it would be more effective.
Seems like it would be more effective
not likely. in the same vein of shutting down discourse using phrases like “both sides” or “whataboutism” the popular consensus with quotes is that you can cherry pick them to say anything; so it’s not going to matter that it’s relevant or even exactly on topic.
i shared it with you so that you can use it to remind yourself that you’re doing the right thing if you should ever doubt yourself; like i do from time to time.
Well thanks man, I appreciate you.
The Simpsons in 1996 sounding just like the people in this thread.
Seriously. Same shit over and over and over again.
bad faith “anarchist” actors on lemmy?, gwon
Most of them claim to be MLs or ‘non-sectarian’ leftists, not anarchists.
They don’t claim to be russian-funded trolls based out of other countries?
Weird.
Anarchists would oppose duopolist monocracy all year.
Authoritarians on Lemmy are likely too diverse and disunited for this comment to use that sort of sarcasm as a display for the spread of false flag anarchism.
As an anarchist I oppose the existence of nation states altogether.
Well, it’s good to aim high. Opposition, i.e. the destruction part isn’t enough, we have to do the build part too. There simply isn’t a critical population in Western/Northern countries yet. We don’t grow Napoleons.
My strategy is like a strangler fig. Every empire decays and dies and hurts a lot of people. If we build up mutual aid and other systems to keep people from dying when the empire crumbles we’ll skip the regressive period that generally comes after.
That’s pretty cool because if you’re wrong or it doesn’t happen in your lifetime, you still help people and have a positive influence.
A friend I organize with tells me he views organization like hospice care, America will not vote for someone who will make this better so we jusr gotta do what we can to make as much of us as comfortable as possible through it’s death. It’s only going to get worse, the people who make money funding both sides continue to want a bigger share of the pie. Political faces change, the chase for profit doesn’t and dead Palestinian kids are great for business.
Honest question. What do you do for someone who’s sole issue right now is to stop the genocide? There’s only one candidate going for that afaik, and it’s not Harris or Trump.
Who would that be?
And more importantly, do they have a chance in hell of actually accomplishing anything meaningful beyond lip service?
Jill Stein? Unless I’m wrong. It’s nuanced, but her position is to stop the genocide.
The Palestinian genocide, she doesn’t give two fucks about the Ukrainian one though.
I’d bet money she doesn’t care about the Palestine one either, but it sure does take votes away from Harris.
Yeah. I agree.
You know she has no authority to do anything about it right? She’s only campaigning on this issue because she knows damn well she won’t get elected. This flimsy promise is enough to keep many people locked up from voting for anyone besides her and her baseless savior complex nonsense. All she is doing is siphoning a lot of votes from the one person that will actually be given the authority to change things.
Under FPÐP, if it isn’t eiðer of ðose candidates, ðen ðere is no candidate.
You’re just voting to be complicit to ð degree everyone else chooses be it less or more.
