13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.
What the actual fuck?
After working construction for decades I can say that American workers are shit compared to foreigners. Muslim workers are the hardest. Especially from Ethiopia or Somalia. They learn fast too and are better in many cases than Mexican or SA workers. PLUS no drug or alcohol or daddy/mommy/religious issues.
When I was building in Africa we finished a project 3 days early. They didn’t even have the skills, we taught on site. That would NEVER happen with regular Americans.
The US has a growing fascism problem
It does not go away with Trump. I wish democrats would address it instead of pointing at Trump like he’s an aberration
Fascism is the problem. Trump is a very notable symptom, but many others are also to blame for the fascism issue, including some democrats. I believe this fixation with Trump is due to people wanting simple answers to complex problems.
The fixation is because there is no clear line of succession. If he fails, who steps in? They’ll splinter and fragment. They’ll still be deplorable, but less effective when not united behind a single authoritarian leader.
Like how democrats splintered and fragmented when Biden stepped down?
They’ll reform and continue gaining power in lower-level positions until the next election, like they’ve been doing since 2020
I cannot emphasize how naieve it is to think this problem will go away if all we do is beat trump, or even if he dies or gets incarcerated.
Immigrants are the blood of the US. This fascist bullshit is the poison.
That’s funny because we’re almost all immigrants, so I guess we’re all poison?
Ehh, then again there was that whole native genocide thing.
No, no, no, not us. I’m talking about those bad immigrants. You know who I’m talking about …
Elon Musk?
He doesn’t LOOK like an immigrant… 🤔
Someone get the family guy skin color chart
Yeah, I guess in their minds it’s preferable to entirely exterminate a local population than to assimilate with them
1/3 of Americans are terrible people.
This is why GW Bush and Trump got elected. There is about 30% that will always vote for R.
Bet. So why don’t all you palefaces go back to England, Ireland, Germany, Spain, France…
Please no. We already have 20-30% of people voting for fascists in Germany. We dont need more
I heard Russia is accepting immigrants.
So, you mean everyone except the native Americans should leave America? Just trying to understand clearly the implications of what you’re suggesting :P
In all seriousness, after all this time I would bet most people couldn’t trace a lineage to a single country now anyway.
They probably couldn’t. And Europe being what it is, a bunch of them would have lineage going back to a country that no longer exists, i.e. if they were of any of the states that were ultimately absorbed into unified Germany in the 1800’s.
It’s all arbitrary. But we know damn well Trump and his goons don’t mean “white” people when they say “immigrants.”
From the “Great American Melting Pot” to this shit in one generation. WTF
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If you think this is new, you haven’t paid attention to history.
This is the US. Mutt Nation. What the hell does “pure” or “poisoned” blood mean here?
Look up mud people
This country, possibly your grandfathers or great-grandfathers (and in many cases grandmothes), went to war against Nazis, as did most of the world. There were a few fringe sympathizers, but they weren’t representative of “the greatest generation.”
This shit is a new Nazi wave, and it’s not a continuation of something. It’s a flare-up of an old ugly root. All over the world these shits are gaining ground. New media empowers them.
The idea that the world united against the horrible atrocities of the Nazis is post-war propaganda. Your average person didn’t know anything about what was going on until photos of the camps made their way home as we pushed into Germany itself. Most countries didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until they were on their doorstep. Most people said, “Hitler’s only saying that stuff to get elected. Once he’s in office, he’ll calm down, you’ll see.” And then they said, “Well, if we leave him alone, then he won’t bother us.”
Many people across Europe and North America actually agreed with Hitler’s views about the Jews before “The Final Solution.” Antisemitism was common across Europe and North America, if not the globe. In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to America as the sisterland across the ocean that shares his values.
The phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by the pro-isolationism political group the America First Committee, who formed in 1940 and dissolved after the attack on Pearl Harbor, who largely opposed support for the UK. And they had over 800,000 members from all different backgrounds (from Democrats and Republicans to communists and anti-communists) with major tones of antisemitism and pro-fascist support amongst its leaders and speakers. They dissolved 4 days after Pearl Harbor and joined the war effort, not to fight the Nazis but to protect the US.
The Nazis were inspired by the treatment of Native Americans when they started their camps, and we had our own camps for Japanese Americans. We hated the Chinese when they came here, and we hated the Irish as well. Most ethnic groups coming to the US settled in communities of their own culture from their homeland. That’s why the culture is so varied here, even across a single state. To quote somebody else, “Racism is as American as apple pie, and some people will see hatred of the first as hatred of the second.”
I remember the days after 9/11, when attacks on black people doubled, attacks on Jews tripled, and Muslim parents were asking their kids if they wanted to change their name to something more American to avoid being bullied. That racism has always been present. It was just often couched in the lie of being edgy jokes or just that one racist uncle at the family party. The biggest differences today are that they’re no longer afraid to say it openly, and the number of young men caught up in the rhetoric of the online fascist pipeline that gives them a target to blame all the problems in their life on. The ironic racist jokes of their teen and childhood years stopped being ironic at some point and became their actual beliefs.
The idea that Nazi sympathisers were a fringe group is an vast oversimplification of history. Yes, America chose to fight against the Nazis, but there were huge racist/eugenist movements at the time that included high-ranking politicians and military personnel. Look up the America First movement for just one example.
I first learned about this from the podcast ULTRA. I kept having to check their sources and do further research, because what they said sounded so wild that I felt I should have already known it. Instead it’s just another example of people not wanting to teach their uncomfortable history like the Tulsa race massacre, Indian residential schools in the US and Canada, the Tuskegee syphilis study, etc, etc, etc.
Also, I’d suggest you learn about the history of Nazi Germay. The Nazis weren’t this huge supermajority of the German population, they just had people in the right positions, took power by force, and the populace went along with it. It’s not hard to see parallels with a lot of events in US history where if things went just a bit different the USA could have become a racist, authoritarian state.
In 2016 they said it couldn’t happen here. They laughed at the idea of trump getting elected. They were shocked when he was elected and racism once again reared its ugly head. In Germany they said it couldn’t happen here and look what happened. Now we have Trump, the racists have come out of the woodwork, project 2025 was revealed and we’re very close to the end of America if we don’t do something.
For reference to my comment: http://rsdb.org/slur/mud_people
its the 100% venn overlap of racists. america is still pretty full up on people who hate other people for no reason but race
The real racists are the ones calling people racist just because they hate people for no reason but race.
Racists are not a protected group. Its totally fine and important to hate racists
Obvious sarcasm getting down votes …
I was seriously considering adding a /s but I was like nah, that’s lame it should be obvious.
How?
I was at a Ska show last night. They played a tRump ad about the border before the music. We almost left. Surreal, honestly, for the type of crowd I would expect.
Nothing could keep me there.
Music and politics are super weird. Paul Ryan, former Republican speaker of the house, was an RATM fan until Tom Morello told him to fuck off. Ann Coulter is a massive Deadhead. So is Tucker Carlson. There’s even a photo of Tucker hanging out with Jerry Garcia when he was in his 20s. The story is in an interview here if you can stomach it: https://www.maxraskin.com/interviews/interview-with-tucker-carlson
And then there’s the musicians themselves- Johnny Ramone, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, all conservatives.
Music and right-wing politics are weird. I can’t even begin to count how many bands were proudly anti-war in the 70s. Then there’s the punk movement, which was highly critical of Reagan and Bush.
I guess music and a message of hope/protest works better than a message of oppression, especially when appealing to youth.
Springsteen’s Born in the U.S.A. is about a Vietnam veteran who has been fucked over by the country he came back to.
Reagan used it as part of his flag-waving “it’s morning in America” bullshit because no one listened to the lyrics beyond “I was born in the U.S.A.”
Yeah, it’s like Trump playing CCR’s Fortunate Son. Fogerty was pissed.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag Hoo, they’re red, white and blue And when the band plays “Hail to the chief” Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no senator’s son, son It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no furtunate one, no
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don’t they help themselves, Lord? But when the taxman come to the door Lord, the house lookin’ like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no, no It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, no
Yeah-yeah, some folks inherit star-spangled eyes Hoo, they send you down to war, Lord And when you ask 'em, “How much should we give?” Hoo, they only answer, “More, more, more, more”
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no military son, son, Lord It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, one
He also plays YMCA at the end of his rallies constantly. I guess his audience doesn’t know what that song is about or who The Village People even were.
I mean, how many people supported slavery and later, Jim Crow.
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The funny thing, though, is that the people who supported slavery also generally supported immigration. And I don’t mean by importing slaves (that too, of course). They wanted immigrants because they wanted America to grow. Sure, they didn’t want black immigrants, but that’s a whole other thing. When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!” it was “Hey! Dirt cheap labor! And stay out of the buildings with the posted ‘no Chinese’ signs or else.”
So even those people, awful as they were, wouldn’t agree.
When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!”
Chinese Exclusion Act says hi.
Okay, fair point. But that wasn’t really a “poisoning the blood of our country” thing either. It was a “they tuk’r jerbs” situation.
Oh, no, there was definitely strong fears at the time that foreigners would ‘ruin’ America, and blood-related arguments were far more in vogue then than now. Even foreigners as white as the Irish and Germans.
It was a ‘catholics are evil and all follow the commands of the pope so we can’t let them in, they’ll sell us all out to the European powers’ thing.
Also Irish are all drunks and Italians are all criminals, unlike the wonderful people who populated this country who were the European upper crust of course, and not religious nut jobs and people fleeing debt or other crimes.
Don’t get me started on antisemitism: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-united-states-and-the-refugee-crisis-1938-41
Roosevelt warned that even Jewish refugees could become a threat, aiding Nazi Germany in exchange for the lives of loved ones held hostage in Europe. The FBI warned Americans to be on guard. Neither the president nor the FBI were able to provide any specific examples of Jewish refugees committing acts of espionage or sabotage.
Not just fleeing debt or crimes. People tend to be pretty well familiar with the British Empire using Australia as a penal colony, but that didn’t really get going until after the American Revolution. Before that they just used the 13 Colonies. Not quite as far to travel, bit cheaper.
We’ve largely blotted out that particular perception, though, replacing it with pilgrims in funny hats fleeing religious persecution. Which, there were those too, of course, but there was also quite a lot of every other sort of person.
Yea one of the big ironies of history was that Abraham Lincoln was that he wanted to ship all of the newly freed slaves out of the US and back to Africa or South America: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linconia
For peace, he knew how monstrously cruel and evil the south was and that they would never tolerate black people as anything but chattel.
Removing them made sense.
I wish he wasn’t so kind and gentle, giving every slave owner to their slaves and walking away would have solved most of Americas problems to this day
I think this is also a problem of perspective: the US Democrats are only “left” when seen from inside the US political spectrum. Seen from the outside they barely reach a center position and would be considered conservative-right in many other countries.
13% of any national group is enough to account for people who don’t have any good reason to identify with that group but do so because their friends or family did.
Knowing what 13% of Democrats think tells you what the party is not, not what the party is. It’s irrelevant to the tired, old point that you’ve dragged out here.
And where in time does he draw the line where everyone after it is an immigrant?
Seems like at some point when the immigrants started getting a bit less pale in appearance. I don’t think the US has an immigrant problem really. I think it’s just plain old fashioned racism dressed up with a fancier word.
I don’t know, but the lines are weird as fuck at this point.
I wonder how many of those people are children of immigrants.
(although, in a broader view, probably all of them are at least descendants of immigrants)
Donald Trump is the child of an immigrant. His mother was from Scotland.
Of course, that makes her the “right kind” of immigrant.
And then there’s two of the mothers of four of his children. Ivana and Melania, both immigrants.
His new bestie, Musk, is 1st generation. As is Thiel. I’d be fine with deporting them though.
I agree. In fact, can we really be sure that any other billionaires might or might not be immigrants? We should probably round them all up just to be safe. We can deport the ones we think are immigrants and worry about the rest later.
One third of Americans are fascists.
Checks out.
I think it’s probably important to find out why this is, rather than just wag the finger and move on. Because, if the trend continues the non fascists will be outnumbered. In fact, I would say that this is really saying that 1/3rd of Americans feel free enough to say this. There’s a good chance there’s a silent amount afraid to say their true thoughts.
If it’s just outside brainwashing, then investigate that. If there’s a genuine root concern that is causing this attitude, see if it can be reasonably addressed. If it’s just idiocracy happening, well then we’re all screwed.
I would posit the opposite - if the trend continues, fascists will shrink further. You gotta remember, horrors of the past are not that long ago. Wasn’t all that distant in our past when segregation had majority support, or blanket bans on nonwhite folk becoming naturalized citizens, or eugenics before that.
If we beat them now, we can continue the next four years to fight to shrink the hold that fascist views have on our society still further.
I mean if you think they can be beaten, sure. As an outsider I don’t think I’d dare try to call the result of the US election for example and that’s probably a pretty good way to measure the level of fascism there no?
My thinking is that there’s usually a root cause for this. If that’s something that can be addressed, then it probably should be looked into. I’m not ruling out that a large proportion of people are just stupid and/or easily led though.
From my point of view I see a shift to the right happening in Europe too. So, there’s definitely a trend. The question for me, is why is it happening now? Outside influences for example?
I mean if you think they can be beaten, sure. As an outsider I don’t think I’d dare try to call the result of the US election for example and that’s probably a pretty good way to measure the level of fascism there no?
I would argue that there’s a big difference in supporting fascists and supporting fascist policies. Not because supporting fascists is meaningfully better, but because ignorance means that many people who support fascists, but not fascist policy, are salvageable outside of the tribalist borders of election season.
God, the number of ‘swing voters’ you can have a conversation with and find out that they know nothing about either party’s actual politics is… just horrific. People who call themselves anti-gun-control and support stricter gun control measures than I, a Berniecrat, do. People who talk about the horrors of open borders, and then when you talk to them they support significantly liberalized immigration law and a path to citizenship. ‘Pro-life’ supporters who, if presented with the loosest abortion laws in this country, express support for such ‘reasonable’ measures.
Not to be confused with embarrassed conservatives, who will take all those positions if pressed, but immediately revert once in friendly company. I’m talking about people I’ve given no hint of my politics to and no leading statements but suss out that they simply have no goddamn clue what they’re talking about.
They’re the ~17% of the country that’s not fascist, but very well may hand over the country to fascists this coming election. And if that happens, they’ll genuinely have no fucking clue how fascism took power.
They’re not good citizens. They are absolutely supporting fascism in this coming election. But in the long term, they can be saved. In the long-term, they don’t need to be a blight on this country’s politics.
God, the number of ‘swing voters’ you can have a conversation with and find out that they know nothing about either party’s actual politics is… just horrific. People who call themselves anti-gun-control and support stricter gun control measures than I, a Berniecrat, do. People who talk about the horrors of open borders, and then when you talk to them they support significantly liberalized immigration law and a path to citizenship. ‘Pro-life’ supporters who, if presented with the loosest abortion laws in this country, express support for such ‘reasonable’ measures.
Here in the UK I sometimes think most people know more about US politics than domestic politics. So, I know how this kind of ignorance can happen.
But then, if you’re suggesting talking to people with fascist views, then that’s also the point I’m making too. Because that’s finding out why they think the way they do and perhaps changing their mind by telling them which things they’ve been told were wrong all along. My experience has been that the indoctrinated people will listen to what you say, perhaps even agree. Then, in short order revert to the old talking points.
Regarding the “embarrassed” conservatives. I wonder if they’re more just conservatives that are following the flow of their fellow conservatives, not really considering the full impact the result may have. You don’t need to look further than the running mate, to see how republicans are happy to endorse trump, even though they don’t stand for most of what he says. Because winning matters most. I wonder if some conservatives are casting a blind-eye to the fascist undertones, because overall they will otherwise get what they want?
But then, if you’re suggesting talking to people with fascist views, then that’s also the point I’m making too. Because that’s finding out why they think the way they do and perhaps changing their mind by telling them which things they’ve been told were wrong all along. My experience has been that the indoctrinated people will listen to what you say, perhaps even agree. Then, in short order revert to the old talking points.
That’s what I mean about embarrassed conservatives - they’re a different (though also horrifically common) scenario than swing voters. Embarrassed conservatives (ie people with fascist views) are likely, in an anonymous poll, to fully fess up to thinking immigrants are ‘poisoning the blood’ of the country.
The folks I’m talking about don’t hold fascist views, but they have all the ‘right’ tribalist labels, and no clue what they actually mean in terms of policy proposals. To them, it may as well be saying “I am Pro-Good and Anti-Bad”. If you ask them, in an anonymous poll, about a policy position or statement, you’ll likely get a response that’s not bugfuck insane - but their voting habits are indistinguishable, because they have no clue about the actual state of politics in this country. Or any country. Or of politics in general.
Horrifying
