Every single time someone online claims to be this or that identity from this or that country, they are doing it as a black man. You cannot trust claims online accounts make about their identity.
I don’t need to trust OOP. In USians own words that they were repeating ad nauseam on Reddit for the past four years, Russians are all responsible for Putin’s actions because they didn’t overthrow him. Tell me why the same shouldn’t apply to USians.
They said that Russians should’ve protested, and that would cure Putin’s dictatorship. Which Russians did, culminating with Bolotnaya in 2011, after which the downturn to authoritarianism only accelerated; and particularly in east and north regions practically every year, with six months of protests sometimes.
They also said that Russians should’ve overthrown Putin with other means, i.e. unarmed clerks should’ve gone against the police, Rosgvardiya, FSB and the military.
Well let’s see then how this protesting thing and overthrowing thing works out for USians, and if it doesn’t then we will speak the same of them as they did about Russians. Trump is still on the throne after one year, yall seem to be slacking.
Yeah, why don’t I also overthrow Trump while I’m at it, since USians seemingly can’t do shit about him despite talking a lot of talk. And then overthrow Vučić and Orbán because I’m responsible for all of them, and never people of those countries themselves.
Yeah no. Talk is cheap. USians can depose Trump and show the example for all the world, or they can shut up about how they personally didn’t enable Trump’s regime.
This divides US individuals from their allies elsewhere. The nation has failed to represent its people. Either help us sabotage the fascist machinery now or prepare yourself for when the regime reaches your doorstep. The villains here don’t respect borders except when they divide and control the rest of us. Don’t help them do that.
This post essentially says “Don’t tell us if you disagree with the fascists, we don’t care”. I don’t see how any good will come from burying your head in the sand and ignoring potential allies and reinforcing in-group/out-group divisions. That actually supports their evil divide-and-conquer strategy!
The only groups that should matter here are the wealth-hoarding fascists vs everyone else in the world. They don’t care what country we’re from our what languages we speak or what recipes we got from our grandmothers; they ultimately want to enslave or murder us all.
Part of it, I think, is that a random person apologizing on behalf of an entire country is rather pointless. It doesn’t benefit that other country at all (in a personal sense a genuine apology might provide reassurance that the apologizer doesn’t intend to repeat some offense, but a person apologizing for an entire country, that they don’t control, can make no such garuntee, same as apologizing on behalf of an unrepentant stranger would be pointless). The only thing it really does is make the person apologizing feel slightly better about what is going on.
If little actions like that didn’t happen, the international stage would see us as a monolith all supporting Trump. Your only source of truth would be our media.
I get that sentiment, but consider: there are orders of magnitude more people in the US than Greenland. As such, if Americans go into communities for Greenland to demonstrate to them that we don’t all support Trump in such a way, the result would be less a “little thing” and more the people actually using that community getting bombarded with Americans apologizing for the actions of other Americans in a space meant to be for Greenland. I’m not from there and so can’t say for sure how that comes across, but I at least imagine that were I from Greenland, I’d probably find this far more annoying than reassuring.
Isnt that exactly what the post is addressing? It’s something us-americans do for themselves, for their image in front of the world. It is not done for the greenlanders and therefore leaves a bitter taste.
Many of us have empathy, and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for. Your comment seems to be blind to that fact.
and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for
And that energy needs to be directed at reducing and preventing the bullshit. Apologizing to Greenland does nothing for the bullshit they have to deal with.
huh? that’s literally not the point of apologies? they’re explicitly about taking responsibility, acknowledging harm done, expressing genuine remorse and committing to real actionable change.
the issue in the OP is when people say “I’m sorry about the orange cheeto - I didn’t vote for this you don’t deserve to be treated this way” - this is useless and performative and serves to mostly make the person apologising feel better.
instead a real apology would take ownership and commit to action: “I’m sorry I didn’t do more, and here’s what I’ll do going forward (mobilise, organize, agitate, etc)”
and even then it might still not make a difference and people might still hate you but we don’t fight fascists to win or to feel better about ourselves but because they are fascists…
You actually think it makes them feel any better? Like they’re actually doing a narcissistic masturbation and patting themselves on the back for having done their part? THAT’S your projection of events? Jesus Christ lmao it’s a completely ordinary way of revealing to others there are citizens on their side too
You sound more irony poisoned and cynical than the fictional character you just made up
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
More often than not, they’re being killed on the street (or in their homes or bleeding out in hospital wards or in detention cells) without ever lifting a finger. This isn’t Sparta. We’re not a bunch of paramilitary guerrillas with years of experience resisting an armed occupation. The bulk of American resistance is rhetorical - protest marches, sit ins, etc - because that’s what we’ve all been trained to believe is the most effective.
Not sure what point is being made here
That apologies fall flat when the bombs start landing. Greenland people need a real material international resistance to Trumpist Imperialism, not a Wisconsin Nice “gee golly this isn’t what we wanted” letter from the well-meaning people working at the F-35 jet engine factory.
Oh, sorry if that offended the americans heros who are protesting against what they voted for. Being Canadian, knowing that makes me realize everything is ok and I will stop mentionning your country is threatening to annex mine on a daily basis because some of you don’t want to too. Greenland and Venezuela should also stfu and let americans handle this like they always do, the best possible way.
Ope, can’t say “I didn’t vote for this” because that’s an annoying cliche too. I’m guessing you helped bury those Inuit kids under that schoolyard since you’re Canadian and you all think that same like all Americans do
JFK, yeah, excellent example: the whole point of the reconciliation process is recognizing that there is collective responsibility beyond individual actions.
I didn’t direct the genocide, but fucking rights I benefit as a settler, and repairing that involves both compensation and recognition of the existence of those benefits. It’s an ongoing struggle here as a lot of immature thinking still exists, crying about “it wasn’t me, stop blaming” while eating the fruits of colonialism every breathing moment.
Greenlanders don’t own land. They don’t have this individualism problem very much.
I’m all for reconciliation, and trying to make things better even if you didn’t participate in the colonialism. That is a good thing to do and something I try to do on my own life.
We’re not talking about that in this thread.
We’re talking about collective blame for the actions of others. If your government does something that’s amoral, and even if you’re trying to stop it, it does it anyway, are you copable?
Reconciliation says that even if you didn’t do the things, if you benefit from it, it’s your responsibility to try to fix it. That’s not what people are advocating for, they are gleefully saying people deserve to have a boot on their neck just because they happen to live in this country.
Doesn’t matter if you’re under the boot or wearing it, you’re all the same so you all deserve it, right? You Canadians voted for it and allowed it to happen.
Oh wait that’s a shitty take? Maybe reconsider using it on others.
Get fucked, we both know you wont be doing shit and will keep hiding behind your computer when he makes is move on Greenland and Canada. As long as Amazon will keep delivering them crap made in China, americans will be all words and no act.
Some Americans. The vast majority aren’t doing anything or just complaining in the internet. A HUGE amount on the Internet have the attitude of “someone save us”. Most are just sitting back waiting for the “breaking point” and others to start the action so they know it’s safe to join in.
The point being made here is that having a textual emotional breakdown ‘apology video’ on a niche social media platform is completely fucking useless toward solving the problem, and that uselessness is so performative that it is actually insulting.
The Americans that are actually doing something about it?
Different topic.
Because they are actually doing something about it.
They’re not wasting their energy writing useless and meaningless apologies, making it ultimately about how ashamed they are to be an-
Nobody fucking cares about how sorry anyone one is when the harm is ongoing and worsening.
You bringing up Americans who actually are resisting, that is a non sequitur, it is completely missing the point.
Sincerely, An American who is sick of other American’s self-centered ‘main character’ bullshit.
It’s that true, or was it just one?
It’s not like there is some real resistance.
It’s sort of like Russia. There is some opposition, but nobody really wants to do anything real. Just that in Russia you get sent to the gulag, in America is just so much apathy and stupidity not many even understand what’s happening and had no idea what to do even if they did.
wow what an exaggaration. even though it’s a terrible situation, ONE person got killed by ONE ICE-prick. people arent ‘killed in the street fighting back’ most of you aren’t doing shit.
Renee Good was ALONE
You’re correct, but in this first-past-the-post lemmy system, you’re going to be downvoted to oblivion, whilst the top votes go to exactly the kind of comment the actual post rails against!
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
Not sure what point is being made here
This is propaganda to further divide
Every single time someone online claims to be this or that identity from this or that country, they are doing it as a black man. You cannot trust claims online accounts make about their identity.
I don’t need to trust OOP. In USians own words that they were repeating ad nauseam on Reddit for the past four years, Russians are all responsible for Putin’s actions because they didn’t overthrow him. Tell me why the same shouldn’t apply to USians.
They said that Russians should’ve protested, and that would cure Putin’s dictatorship. Which Russians did, culminating with Bolotnaya in 2011, after which the downturn to authoritarianism only accelerated; and particularly in east and north regions practically every year, with six months of protests sometimes.
They also said that Russians should’ve overthrown Putin with other means, i.e. unarmed clerks should’ve gone against the police, Rosgvardiya, FSB and the military.
Well let’s see then how this protesting thing and overthrowing thing works out for USians, and if it doesn’t then we will speak the same of them as they did about Russians. Trump is still on the throne after one year, yall seem to be slacking.
Maybe you’ll feel better if you overthrow Putin.
Yeah, why don’t I also overthrow Trump while I’m at it, since USians seemingly can’t do shit about him despite talking a lot of talk. And then overthrow Vučić and Orbán because I’m responsible for all of them, and never people of those countries themselves.
Maybe we’ll feel better if you overthrow Trump.
Yeah no. Talk is cheap. USians can depose Trump and show the example for all the world, or they can shut up about how they personally didn’t enable Trump’s regime.
scans thread
It’s working!
😒
They are calling out americans to do something about their fascist government, who they are trying to divide?
This divides US individuals from their allies elsewhere. The nation has failed to represent its people. Either help us sabotage the fascist machinery now or prepare yourself for when the regime reaches your doorstep. The villains here don’t respect borders except when they divide and control the rest of us. Don’t help them do that.
How does this divides US individuals from their allies?
This post essentially says “Don’t tell us if you disagree with the fascists, we don’t care”. I don’t see how any good will come from burying your head in the sand and ignoring potential allies and reinforcing in-group/out-group divisions. That actually supports their evil divide-and-conquer strategy!
The only groups that should matter here are the wealth-hoarding fascists vs everyone else in the world. They don’t care what country we’re from our what languages we speak or what recipes we got from our grandmothers; they ultimately want to enslave or murder us all.
Part of it, I think, is that a random person apologizing on behalf of an entire country is rather pointless. It doesn’t benefit that other country at all (in a personal sense a genuine apology might provide reassurance that the apologizer doesn’t intend to repeat some offense, but a person apologizing for an entire country, that they don’t control, can make no such garuntee, same as apologizing on behalf of an unrepentant stranger would be pointless). The only thing it really does is make the person apologizing feel slightly better about what is going on.
If little actions like that didn’t happen, the international stage would see us as a monolith all supporting Trump. Your only source of truth would be our media.
That would be horrible.
I get that sentiment, but consider: there are orders of magnitude more people in the US than Greenland. As such, if Americans go into communities for Greenland to demonstrate to them that we don’t all support Trump in such a way, the result would be less a “little thing” and more the people actually using that community getting bombarded with Americans apologizing for the actions of other Americans in a space meant to be for Greenland. I’m not from there and so can’t say for sure how that comes across, but I at least imagine that were I from Greenland, I’d probably find this far more annoying than reassuring.
Isnt that exactly what the post is addressing? It’s something us-americans do for themselves, for their image in front of the world. It is not done for the greenlanders and therefore leaves a bitter taste.
Many of us have empathy, and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for. Your comment seems to be blind to that fact.
And that energy needs to be directed at reducing and preventing the bullshit. Apologizing to Greenland does nothing for the bullshit they have to deal with.
All apologies only server to make the apologizer feel better. Should we just stop doing it altogether?
huh? that’s literally not the point of apologies? they’re explicitly about taking responsibility, acknowledging harm done, expressing genuine remorse and committing to real actionable change.
the issue in the OP is when people say “I’m sorry about the orange cheeto - I didn’t vote for this you don’t deserve to be treated this way” - this is useless and performative and serves to mostly make the person apologising feel better.
instead a real apology would take ownership and commit to action: “I’m sorry I didn’t do more, and here’s what I’ll do going forward (mobilise, organize, agitate, etc)”
and even then it might still not make a difference and people might still hate you but we don’t fight fascists to win or to feel better about ourselves but because they are fascists…
You actually think it makes them feel any better? Like they’re actually doing a narcissistic masturbation and patting themselves on the back for having done their part? THAT’S your projection of events? Jesus Christ lmao it’s a completely ordinary way of revealing to others there are citizens on their side too
You sound more irony poisoned and cynical than the fictional character you just made up
Not nearly enough of us are fighting back.
Not nearly enough of anyone is fighting back
Do you really think that any major media would show how much resistance to government is out there and working? “The resistance will not be televised”
it’s easy to demand someone else sacrifice their life and liberty and livelihood for you.
that’s the point.
More often than not, they’re being killed on the street (or in their homes or bleeding out in hospital wards or in detention cells) without ever lifting a finger. This isn’t Sparta. We’re not a bunch of paramilitary guerrillas with years of experience resisting an armed occupation. The bulk of American resistance is rhetorical - protest marches, sit ins, etc - because that’s what we’ve all been trained to believe is the most effective.
That apologies fall flat when the bombs start landing. Greenland people need a real material international resistance to Trumpist Imperialism, not a Wisconsin Nice “gee golly this isn’t what we wanted” letter from the well-meaning people working at the F-35 jet engine factory.
Oh, sorry if that offended the americans heros who are protesting against what they voted for. Being Canadian, knowing that makes me realize everything is ok and I will stop mentionning your country is threatening to annex mine on a daily basis because some of you don’t want to too. Greenland and Venezuela should also stfu and let americans handle this like they always do, the best possible way.
Ope, can’t say “I didn’t vote for this” because that’s an annoying cliche too. I’m guessing you helped bury those Inuit kids under that schoolyard since you’re Canadian and you all think that same like all Americans do
JFK, yeah, excellent example: the whole point of the reconciliation process is recognizing that there is collective responsibility beyond individual actions.
I didn’t direct the genocide, but fucking rights I benefit as a settler, and repairing that involves both compensation and recognition of the existence of those benefits. It’s an ongoing struggle here as a lot of immature thinking still exists, crying about “it wasn’t me, stop blaming” while eating the fruits of colonialism every breathing moment.
Greenlanders don’t own land. They don’t have this individualism problem very much.
I’m all for reconciliation, and trying to make things better even if you didn’t participate in the colonialism. That is a good thing to do and something I try to do on my own life.
We’re not talking about that in this thread.
We’re talking about collective blame for the actions of others. If your government does something that’s amoral, and even if you’re trying to stop it, it does it anyway, are you copable?
Reconciliation says that even if you didn’t do the things, if you benefit from it, it’s your responsibility to try to fix it. That’s not what people are advocating for, they are gleefully saying people deserve to have a boot on their neck just because they happen to live in this country.
Yeah lol, about that, let’s ask my Attikamek mom about her time in a residency school.
Doesn’t matter if you’re under the boot or wearing it, you’re all the same so you all deserve it, right? You Canadians voted for it and allowed it to happen.
Oh wait that’s a shitty take? Maybe reconsider using it on others.
Get fucked, we both know you wont be doing shit and will keep hiding behind your computer when he makes is move on Greenland and Canada. As long as Amazon will keep delivering them crap made in China, americans will be all words and no act.
Some Americans. The vast majority aren’t doing anything or just complaining in the internet. A HUGE amount on the Internet have the attitude of “someone save us”. Most are just sitting back waiting for the “breaking point” and others to start the action so they know it’s safe to join in.
The point being made here is that having a textual emotional breakdown ‘apology video’ on a niche social media platform is completely fucking useless toward solving the problem, and that uselessness is so performative that it is actually insulting.
The Americans that are actually doing something about it?
Different topic.
Because they are actually doing something about it.
They’re not wasting their energy writing useless and meaningless apologies, making it ultimately about how ashamed they are to be an-
Nobody fucking cares about how sorry anyone one is when the harm is ongoing and worsening.
You bringing up Americans who actually are resisting, that is a non sequitur, it is completely missing the point.
Sincerely, An American who is sick of other American’s self-centered ‘main character’ bullshit.
One of the points being made is that if every russian is a piece of shit because putin was elected the same logic should apply to americans.
https://feddit.nl/post/22918080
It’s that true, or was it just one? It’s not like there is some real resistance.
It’s sort of like Russia. There is some opposition, but nobody really wants to do anything real. Just that in Russia you get sent to the gulag, in America is just so much apathy and stupidity not many even understand what’s happening and had no idea what to do even if they did.
wow what an exaggaration. even though it’s a terrible situation, ONE person got killed by ONE ICE-prick. people arent ‘killed in the street fighting back’ most of you aren’t doing shit. Renee Good was ALONE
incorrect. more than one person has been murdered in the streets. many more killed while in ice custody. many people unsure of whereabouts.
Ah another keyboard warrior unfamiliar with all 50 state police forces and every other militarized federal agency in continuous operation
Yeah, we should all be going out and getting killed right now!
Correct
You’re correct, but in this first-past-the-post lemmy system, you’re going to be downvoted to oblivion, whilst the top votes go to exactly the kind of comment the actual post rails against!
luckily negative internet points matter as much as their stupid apologies