This is the case where the police union official said that the victim’s life had “limited value” - https://publicola.com/2023/09/11/write-a-check-for-11000-she-was-26-she-had-limited-value-spd-officer-jokes-with-police-union-leader-about-killing-of-pedestrian-by-fellow-cop/
If good cops existed, they would shoot these guys.
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The second you say a person’s life has limited value, your life becomes limited in value.
Which is exactly why I’m against the death penalty and in favor of legalizing and taxing recreational drugs to fund rehab. I don’t care if you’re the Dalai Lama or a homeless drug addict, every life has equal value in my eyes.
I’m definitely in the camp of “I’d rather let dozens of crooks walk the street if the alternative is sending a single innocent man to the gallows.”
Just to shake the wasps nest, what about Nazis?
The correct response to seeing a Nazi - https://youtu.be/ujC7rxFVZ18
Obligatory ACAB
I know several cops and they are all great people. I live in Europe though, and hating all cops isn’t luckily considered normal here.
You’re just being foolish to trust them… I’m Canadian and always heard how our cops weren’t as bad as American cops, then we had protests in my city and the Canadian police proved they can be every bit as sadistic and psychotic as American cops. So can European cops. Don’t let your guards down
I know several ex-cops because they saw everyone around them was a bastard, they are great people.
I live in Canada and also know several cops who are great people;however, even they would not raise a finger to expose fellow cops who are indeed bastards
That’s the problem, it’s not a few bad apples, it’s a shit ton of them and the few remaining good apples are too afraid or just not care to do anything about the rest
The whole point of “a few bad apples” is that they spoil the bunch. The idiom is “A few bad apples spoils the bunch”. Just like keeping bad apples in a basket with good ones ruins them, so too are your “great people” ruined by putting up with the assholes they work with.
Guess what? If you see someone abusing people with their power and you say nothing about it, then you’re not a good person. Neutral at best.
I question your definition of “great people.”
That’s the problem, it’s not a few bad apples
The whole “a few bad apples” excuse ignores the rest of the saying. In its entirety it says “A few bad apples spoil the whole bushel.”
(This is because as apples rot they release ethylene gas, which causes the rest of the apples to ripen more quickly and then start rotting.)
It probably helps that in most European countries police training is in the thousands of hours and in America it’s under 6 months.
I get a different vibe from cops in Europe, and I wonder if it has to do with countries where they have mandatory military conscription / civil service.
I sometimes wonder if in the US, we had some kind of system where everyone was forced to serve as a police officer, say between the ages of 18 and 21, we would have an entirely different system. Instead of attracting power hungry psycho killers, you would have normal people who understood they were performing a required service for their community and society in general. You might then get more mutual respect between cops and civilians since everybody will have been on both sides.
Also, it’s almost as if anyone who wants to be a cop should be immediately disqualified. Same with politicians.
No, no. Many European countries don’t even have mandatory service. The real difference is we don’t have a gun fetish and we don’t view cops as warriors that need to be armed to the teeth with military surplus to be able to stand a chance against
civilianscriminals. We also don’t teach courses on how it’s us vs. them and how you should always have killing on your mind in encounters with the public.Our training is fucked.
Maybe so. But I still like my idea too.
Retail customer service. Every American should serve mandatory minimum of five years in retail customer service.
Let’s arm and load power onto every 18-21 year old in the country! Genius idea!!
You wouldn’t arm them necessarily.
They might serve unarmed to enforce traffic laws, write tickets, deal with non violent offenders, operate 911 call centers, etc.We already “arm and load power” onto 18-21 year old kids by signing them up for the military and sending them overseas.
Do you not trust those same kids in your own neighborhood?
I do not. I don’t trust those same kids when they are deployed in other countries, either.
Ok fair enough. Then I think I made some bad assumptions about where you were coming from. Sorry about that.
Here in Vic Australia too. They’re mostly legends
The only people I know who hate cops here hate them because they either didn’t solve their issue, or they are generally known to act like asses.
It probably also helps that nobody carries guns here so they can operate on a shoot last, ask questions first policy
Believe it or not, it’s possible to act on a shoot last, ask questions first policy even here in gun crazy Florida. Literally everyone other than police officers do it every day.
Well. You could become a cop and change the culture
There are shootings constantly in the US though.
Here in Australia, I wanted to join the police but ultimately chose not to due to the bad working hours. In the US, I feel like I wouldn’t feel safe doing so though personally unless gun laws were refined with better gun control like in other countries
Here in Australia they barely even need to carry a gun
You can not just become a cop, and change the culture. This shows a lack of understanding of the situation. When cops come in, and do things that would change things, they get pushed out. The DA decides they aren’t gonna put up with corrupt cop bullshit? Cops simply won’t work with them on any cases. Throw them in jail for contempt over it? A superior court will have that over-turned. External forces will need to change it at a systemic level. The law needs to change, the structure of that system needs to be changed, and society needs to apply that by force.
Well. You can start by becoming a cop. .
That’s always the problem. There’s people with strong convictions about being a good cop which is great. But none of them want to actually do the job… So the jobs get taken by shitty people.
You need to start by getting good people to become cops for starters. But yes, better laws. You guys need to start with gun control. Here in Australia, cops know they’ll be going home after they do their job
Are you part of the legal system at all? If not, that’s part of the problem. Real change needs serious people. Are you doing anything to help the community and improve mental health to at least make it safer?
It’s easy to write long complaints about the police, but ultimately, it won’t change anything.
I was a data analyst for the corrections/justice industry. I have an intimate knowledge of how it works. I worked with, and trained, thousands of police, from a significant portion of the country. I have spent time corresponding with DAs, Judges, State officials, Local officials, police union reps, wardens, sheriffs, COs, etc. The whole deal. The entire system is designed to be what it is, and part of that design is to identify, and reject, anyone not in compliance. As soon as a cop begins discussing holding cops/officials accountable, or a chief begins instituting policies that reign in this behavior, they get pushed out. If they fight getting pushed out, then end up in jail, or they end up dead.
You are ignorant of what is happening. I don’t blame you, most people don’t want to believe things are this way, and you aren’t even from here. However you truly misjudge just how, absolutely, fucked the current system is. In 1967 the USSC made a ruling that gave government officials immunity to actions in the line of duty. In 1982 they came up with a set of parameters that made this immunity so solid it is almost impossible to lose. This has been a shield for the vast majority of all rights abuse/deprivation in the US. It is why the USSC has recently been shown to be outright doing illegal things and there is, likely, nothing going to happen about it. I mean fuck, numerous police departments have been busted running, CIA-esque, black sites. You know what happened about it? The lowest man on the totem pole got a slap on the wrist, and the rest had to retire, or quit and get that job in another municipality. In the Baton Rouge case, it’s starting look like it might end up being deemed a “civil” infraction, rather than a criminal one…
On top of this, there are many, many, profit motives to arrest, fine, jail, and prosecute, as many people as possible. The immunity allows them to do it in direct violation of the law, and in the case that you have the resources to sue the government, no one will suffer personal consequences, so they do not care. Most people do not have these resources, so that is already a great filter for them. I could go on about the problems with the US legal industry, because it is a profit driven industry, not a justice system, for hours, if not days.
That’s exactly the problem we have over here. You can’t become a cop and change the culture. The culture is mandatory. They seek it out and train it it, and the ones who won’t at least turn a blind eye to it aren’t allowed to stay.
It’s important to also point out that a huge portion of the population carries guns. There’s no reason to assume that someone armed is a threat at all, and statistics bear that out. In the south of the US even most liberals don’t think twice about the number of guns they encounter every day. The reason why police are a unique situation is , obviously, partially because they deal with criminals, and partially because of their confrontational and aggressive approach to most situations. It’s not so much that you got to deal with a good or bad cop. It’s more that you got to deal with a cop in a good or bad mood. They way they choose to interact with you has very little to do with things you can control.
We’re hardly immune to bad policing
Victorian police beat climate protestors at mining conference
Victorian police kettle and pepper spray BLM protestors in Melbourne train station - I haven’t been able to find this one again but lots of references to Vic Pol using kettling as standard operating procedure.
I know several cops and they are all great people.
No, they aren’t. Even if they are kind and friendly to you, they are still cops. They are still the state sanctioned users of violence whose primary job is to keep the status quo in which the rich own everything, and the workers don’t. Where people live on the streets and children go hungry.
basically a system that makes crime necessary to survive only due to unaccounted crimes of the rich so that cops can claim they would “solve problems” but aren’t because they mainly accompanied the rich causing them?
Just a few days ago in my country cops arrested several rich bastards for corruption. They took the Mayor of a big city, member of currently most supported (and populist) political party, in handcuffs. At least those I know believe they are making world better and safer, and I think that by catching criminals they are. That’s their actual job, and that’s what they do. And I’m glad that if I got robbed, I can call those “bad people” and they will try to find whoever robbed me. And they are not “state sanctioned user of violence”. If a cop shoots a person here, they are heavily investigated, even if the person was a criminal.
Just a few days ago in my country cops arrested several rich bastards for corruption.
But every single rich bastard is corrupt and commits crimes against the people daily. The fact that very occasionally cops arrest a couple of them and then once in a blue moon maybe one of them sees an actual punishment doesn’t change the fact that the status quo is for those rich bastards and all their rich bastard buddies to live in luxury on the backs of the unfairly compensated workers and that the job of the cops is to enforce that status quo through violence.
And they are not “state sanctioned user of violence”
If I tackled you to the ground, bound you hand and foot, shoved you into my car, drove you to my headquarters and locked you in a cage, you wouldn’t consider that violence? What exactly would it be then?
Same. I’m in the US, and every cop I’ve personally interacted with has been reasonable and professional. But I’m pretty mainstream (not a minority, dress conservatively, etc), so generally not a target for police enforcement. So it’s hard for me to know whether my local police are better than average, or if our heavy demographic skew is the main contributor to our low crime rate (i.e. they could still be targeting minorities unfairly, it just wouldn’t be clear from general stats).
Regardless, even my local police have far too much power, so I’m absolutely in favor of ending qualified immunity and splitting the force into armed and unarmed officers. We’ve had some local incidents of police overstepping their bounds (e.g. I’m in Utah and remember this incident very clearly, though that was in another jurisdiction).
I agree, the police has a lot of issues and there’s definitely a need for changes. But still, saying ACAB is just hateful extremism and I’m shocked that some people in this thread act like every single cop is a villain who only wants to beat minorities.
It’s pretty normal in say, Italy and Spain (or at least populated/Catalonian parts of Spain). Everyone immediately brings up Genoa G8 when a police do stuff.
I’m curious in which European country. At least here in Germany ACAB definitely applies
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I know several cops and they are all great people.
No they aren’t.
Yes they are.
No. They’re people who signed up to enforce unjust laws in a system in which people are exploited. They are fundamentally bad.
They signed up to fight crime and protect people. And that’s what they are doing. There are definitely bastards in the police, but this logic is insanely dumb. Are kids who dream about being cops and saving people bastards?
Some very naive people sign up under the mistaken idea that that is what they will be doing. Those naive people are quickly disabused of this notion, and they either quit, are fired, or join in on the corrupt bastardry. There is no such thing as a good cop. What they do is enforce unjust laws, regardless of what they thought they were going to do.
Keep in mind that if you’ve got 3 bastards in a police department and 17 “good guys” who don’t stop those bastards, you have 20 bastards in that department.
In my job, there is a concept called Attribute Based Access Control. I always do a little double take when I see it as an acronym, especially in a professional context.
Wouldn’t that be ABAC, not ACAB?
It is, but when I am skimming a list of titles for talks or a description for a talk, I mix them up for a half second.
Generalist bullshit. Well overplayed, always has been.
This idiot is more than a bastard. And other cops aren’t.
So then why do they chose to defend and enable bastards like this guy?
Don’t worry, he never thought farther than his first comment about generalized BS so I doubt you’ll get an answer.
They usually don’t.
Notice how none of his cop co-workers are demanding his removal and refusing to work with him
imagine even thinking about making a joke like this in any work environment. you would be certain you would get fired. unless of course it was encouraged… which means you’re either a cop or you work at a “AAA” game company.
This argument goes around and around every time someone says ACAB. There is a culture of protecting your own in police forces - it seems to happen all around the world. This culture causes otherwise good cops to overlook actions of their peers that shouldn’t be overlooked. If you let someone get away with something illegal, when your job is to uphold the law, then you are not doing your job and are really not a good cop after all - you’re just as bad as your peers. ACAB is a much simpler way of saying all that.
Nope, if others were not bastards, this guy would not be on the force and would be in jail. They rally ‘round the family….
And other cops aren’t.
We have here, from this case alone:
- 1 absolutely insane individual who recklessly killed Jaahnavi Kandula, Kevin Dave.
- Daniel Auderer, who laughed at her death and said she was lower value anyway
- Mike Solan, who didn’t shut Daniel down the moment he said that, also coincidentally SPOG president
- Whomever is authorized to discharge all 3 of these
- Whomever gave any of these 3 their positions
- The Union that defends these guys
- The cops willingly giving money to that Union
We have more of such cases than Police Unions.
Whomever gave any of these 3 their positions
This one is unfair because it’s not necessarily evident at the time of hiring that an employee will act like th is.
The cops willingly giving money to that Union
Also unfair because you can’t just assume that a donor/member of an org agrees with every action of the group they donate/belong to.
I agree with the rest. Most of those involved should be spending time in jail, qualified immunity should not apply here, nor should it honestly ever apply. Cops should be treated like regular citizens, which means giving citizens more protection as well as cops less protection from the law.
Think of the system like a force field (the physics kind, not the scifi kind). It pulls bastards into it. If you’re not, you’re in its presence, and you’re susceptible to its effects. It’s more like “No Humans Are Immune To The Corrupting Influence Of Militarized Institutions” but ACAB is a lot easier to say.
All cops. No exceptions. They are raised by selfish parents to be a selfish person who sees others as beneath them. It’s how cops are found, look for the greediest person in the room who would hurt others for gain and make them a lap dog. Cops aren’t smart enough to know they are being used. All cops. No exceptions.
I’m looking for the cop unicorns though. Raised, indoctrinated, excels, realizes how fucked we all are, tries to do the most good possible within their power. Probably gets assassinated. Idk.
And no, I don’t think Kamala is this lol
She’s not getting back together with you lmao get over it
People like this deserve one thing only, but saying what they deserve will get you banned from some instances.
I’ve got a friend who, thanks to close family of hers being a cop, is still unconvinced of cops status as bastards.
It’s getting more and more frustrating listening to her justify why other cops don’t do anything about these kinds of cops. Still can’t accept the ones that do nothing are just as culpable. Accessories, in many cases.
If I stand next to my buddy as he kicks a guy to death, I will be getting jail time too. Why not cops?
This piece of shit deserved prison when he killed someone. His actions after the fact show he has no regard for human life and as such is a danger to others by simply being alive.
When a sentient transporter room displays more wisdom than ~75% of politicians, it is more or less guaranteed that the country is fucked.
People like this deserve one thing only, but saying what they deserve will get you banned from some instances.
As it should be. The strongest penalty for anyone should be life imprisonment. I don’t care if you’re literally a terrorist who has killed thousands of people, if you can be arrested without risking the lives of officers, you should face a maximum sentence of time in prison.
That said, I agree with the rest of what you said. This cop should be in prison for a long time.
saying what they deserve
Mob justice? I don’t condone violence. It would be better for the system to actually uphold the law. It won’t.
How do you expect any system to “uphold the law” without violence? Or are you just condoning police violence and not defense from police.
I was talking about what a mob of people might do to an asshole who ran someone over. I bought The End of Policing for multiple people because it advocates replacing police with socialist policies. I don’t know how you misinterpreted my intent, but I’m also not accusing you of anything. It’s early and I have to go to work soon.
Do those socialist policies not rely on defensive violence as well?
I misinterpreted your intent because when someone says they “don’t condone violence” in the context of police brutality, it’s typically because they either
-
don’t consider the police to be violence, or
-
are literally pacifists.
Do those socialist policies not rely on defensive violence as well?
Well, the idea to provide free housing rather than policing the unhoused certainly didn’t.
I’m referring to how you were saying they could replace police.
The book stipulates that providing free housing would reduce crime committed by people who are unhoused. It also advocates for free health care for people and social workers for people who suffer from mental illness. Some will refuse treatment, as we already know. But not all. The book does not say that crime will end. It does make ten (I think) excellent points as a chapter each about failures of policing to address social problems. And it has damning statistics to back up the claims.
It’s ridiculous that the richest nation in human history refuses to spend money on people in need other than for the purposes of enforcement. Doing so is counterproductive and wastes more money than just helping people. That’s my take.
-
Because your analogy is terrible.
It’s more like saying that one dude in your friend group from when you were in your twenties always tried to get in fights whenever you went out went on to murder someone one day without you being there or around. You’re now also blamed for the murder because you ran with him.
Or even better, your older scumbag sibling murdered someone, or parent.
The vast majority of these people aren’t even working together. They barely know who each other are in large departments.
They also have one of the strongest unions in the USA coupled with institutional laws that protect them by default with little statistical tracking.
Those aren’t issues where you blame people through proxy lol.
What’s with the lol at the end, is this topic a joke to you?
Kids use lol as punctuation
Because what you’re saying is so farcically absolute it can only be laughed at lol.
I think that analogy is worse. If my scumbag sibling killed someone and I didn’t say they were a scumbag and distance myself from them and instead defended them and enabled them to continue being a scumbag I damn well deserve others’ ire.
This isn’t the one bad cop in America, this is just one of many whose colleagues enable and approve of their actions. Often defenders of these shitbags say, “it’s just one bad apple” but they forget the rest of the saying that one bad apple spoils the bunch. In this case, too, the people that should hold themselves to a higher standard as a group are the ones making themselves look shitty by not doing so.
Not sure how people with family and friends of “decent cops” can defend them as a whole, particularly when most of them call on their cop friend or family member to help get them out of tickets. They’re just as bad (lol).
If my scumbag sibling killed someone and I didn’t say they were a scumbag and distance myself from them and instead defended them and enabled them to continue being a scumbag I damn well deserve others’ ire.
You immediately got it wrong. You didn’t know they were scum. You maybe knew. You didn’t really know though. For the same reason mass murderers can be saints to their communities. Lying to people is easy to them. And most people are believing.
Your sibling was completely normal. Maybe hot headed. It came out they killed someone. That’s it. You’re not going to toss them under the bus. In general you’ll wait because that’s your family unless someone knew better.
You are officially defending them at that point according to you. No matter if he legally or morally got off or was culpable.
It’s dumb. The entire ACAB stance is dumb just on its premise. Y’all too fucking gullible to Russian and Chinese propaganda lol.
Give them a mile and they still reach for that last extra inch.
If A-train was a cop
Nah, A-Train at least felt some remorse and ended up having a breakdown.
how does a cop not have a license? huh?
Laws for thee but not for me.
OR
Laws for you, not for steaming piles of poo
Probably failed to renew.
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Unrepentant Murderer.
Manslaughter. But yeah, fuck this guy.
Murder. You’re not going 75mph in a 25mph zone and trying not to kill people. Doesn’t matter whether there was a specific target in mind.
If you do it in a car it’s all good. Evidently if you get killed by a speeding hunk of metal, it’s really important to differentiate between the different sizes.
Murder requires malice (i.e. intent), and you don’t meet the standard of intent just by exceeding some level of recklessness/negligence.
Driving 75mph in a 25mph zone is malicious and indicates intent to kill people.
No, that’s not how intent works. What it shows is recklessness.
Maybe that’s not how it works by your definition of intent, but it certainly is how it works in mine.
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I don’t think fuckery after-the-fact can change whether you intended to kill someone.
The driver’s license thing is misleading - he had an Arizona license, so “didn’t have a Washington license”, but was still legal to drive.
The department is legally not able to issue any discipline until the investigation concludes, and they are not able to conclude the investigation while the appeals process on the fine plays out. Due process is slow. Hopefully in the end he gets everything coming to him.
Isn’t the issue that he was living and working in Washington but still had an Arizona license? Most states require you to get that changed over within 6-12 months of moving there.
He definitely wasn’t commuting…
You are required to obtain a new driver’s license within 30 days of moving to Washington.
I would also expect an officer of the law to abide by stricter standards as well, in this case I would assume obtaining a new license would be a requirement for employment (i.e. they can’t start until they’ve applied for a WA state license). How can they be expected to enforce the traffic laws for a state they don’t even have a driving license for? That’s a pretty reasonable, basic standard IMO.
I also think police officers should also be required to take, if not maintain, a commercial driving license test for their state. As a lay citizen, I see a lot of violations that seem to be improperly enforced, and I’m guessing a lot of truckers also get pulled over for total BS. I think professional drivers like police officers and truck drivers should be held to a higher standard because they’re expected to operate vehicles in a much more dangerous way than regular drivers.
I feel like this is a very naive process that implies due process works, albeit slowly, even for cops who fuck up. It doesn’t work because cops, DAs and judges all protect each other.
Also, most insurance companies will nail you for misrepresentation or fraud if your driver’s license license address isn’t updating accordingly with your current address, because different areas have different likelihoods for accidents.
I just don’t get why people are so quick to defend cops or give them the benefit of the doubt over stuff like this.
AND their consent decree just ended! But remeber, the CHAZ was liberals trying to overthrow the government. Or something.
is it bad that the worst thing in this entire situation is the fact that he somehow didnt have a drivers license while on the force?
I believe the worst thing is that he killed someone, but that’s just like my opinion, man.
i mean yeah, that’s pretty bad, but like, he also shouldn’t have been driving in the first place so.
That and, you know, the dead 23 year old.
Yeah, he really should’ve gotten a ticket for that.
The moment he put the car into drive he should have immediately pulled himself over and issued himself a verbal warning.
idk man, probably charged and arrested, but what do i know, i’m not a cop.
No, entirely believable. This is what being a cop is all about. You get to do whatever you want and murder whoever you want.
That’s just not true. Cops are not allowed to kill important people, like family of important politicians or rich people. There are limits on their power.
Wait a minute! That sounds like the stuff a president can do according to the supremes! No way a cop has the same power as a president! 🙀!
Good thing the supremes are there for life to tell us what to do 💕
Haha exactly. I came here to say “sounds about right” but saw your comment first.
Dude reminds me of A-Train
Not another world community…
it is at least a year old
but ok we are protesting wrong. got it.
Why?
It’s better to spread them out so they aren’t all on one instance. Also the .world admins I’ve heard have some issues. I have had no issue with them and don’t remember what the complaints were though. Regardless, one instance should not be the crux of the entire platform. If they were to go down and turn bad then we’d end up with a Reddit issue again.
Makes sense
I will NEVER condone vigilantism or street justice, because its a slippery slope into chaos as people start taking matter into their own hands, possibly harming innocent people just on suspicion of guilt
Unrelated:
heres his full name, birth year, badge number, every unit he’s been in, his date of hire, every write up hes had since 2011, and his current salary
its crazy that they pay this man 88k a year and all he does is run over minorities and look stupid
Number of known incidents: 0
Something ain’t right…
its a slippery slope into chaos
sounds exactly like what those gangs with badges are doing over there.
if they only had any law enforcement in that poor country! then they could stop such crimes and start to build up civilisation instead.
possibly harming innocent people
that argument is way too weak, when “possibly” harming innocent is the alternative to “de-facto” harming innocent, that “possibly” is obviously the better choice then because there would still be a chance to NOT harm the innocent. get better arguments or remove crimes and criminals from law enforcement.
oh if you think i am defending cops then i have failed terribly at communicating the sarcasm and disdain in my tone lemme try again
OH NOES
PUBWIC OFFICIAWS NAMES AND UNIT NUMBERS ARE PUBWIC KNOWEDGE?
I HOPE NOWOBODY USES THIS INFOWO TO DO CWIMES! nyaaa! :3
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone.
