Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.

Feddit.org now bans

  • The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”

  • Comparing Israel to the Nazis

  • Calls to end Zionism

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel

And much more. The full original post can be found here, or

Click here for full text of original post:

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let’s go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan “from the river…”
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    0·
    1 month ago

    Feddit.org should put my balls in its mouth. And tongue my asshole.

    Guess who I support? Palestinians who just want to exist. Same for all marginalized people.

  • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    ive got temp banned from there for mentioning europe engages in colonialism.

    havent participated a lot in there since.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      1 month ago

      Caught a perma ban there for calling german oligarchs being heavy on Nazi nepo babies

      That server has censorship that’s more clown than lemmy.world.

      German regime front on Lemmy… Lol

      People should vote with their feet.

      These clowns should not host pan EU communities, let them circle jerk Zionism in an echo chamber 🤡

  • gabbygool@sh.itjust.worksBanned
    0·
    1 month ago

    I agree with this post. You can condemn Israel’s actions towards Palestine without supporting Hamas and their terror towards Israel and Palestine.

    What many pro-Hamas supporters don’t understand is that Hamas doesn’t have good intentions toward Palestine.

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      Hamas embodies the armed struggle against the genocidal zionist state, and you should support it. This framing that Hamas is purely comprised of fundamentalists is stupid and pure hasbarah, gtfo.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      I mean, you can, if you’re a piece of shit.

      If Zionists don’t want terror maybe they should stop stealing shit and torturing children.

    • culprit@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      I stand with Ghorman and condemn the Empire’s action towards them without supporting the rebel terrorists. Pro-rebel supporters don’t understand that the rebels don’t have good intentions.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      1 month ago

      What many pro-Hamas supporters don’t understand is that Hamas doesn’t have good intentions toward Palestine.

      Yes the paramilitary group fighting on the side of the oppressed people are the bad guys…

      Waffen IDF dindu nuffin 🤡

  • Korhaka@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    I am not reading that. Can we get some more non political instances and communities?

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      Assuming you’re using the default Lemmy UI, there’s a block settings menu in your account settings page. It’s worth exploring, there’s some good options to play around with.

  • njm1314@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    So they’re basically declaring themselves a fascist instance. I mean calling for end of Zionism is calling for an end of a fascist ideal, therefore that instance is declaring itself a fascist organization. Simple. Yeah no one should be Federated with this place.

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    The write-up they link is also insightful. Notably, they “explicitly reject these accusations” of being Zionists and insist it’s a legal precaution required by their countries.

    I’ve bought servers for hosting some small communities and I sometimes thought maybe I was paranoid for retaining anonymity and carefully picking the country and company to allow muh freedoms as far as speech goes, but it’s interesting seeing .world and feddit pull out the “just following legislation” card (which is understandable, given that staff imprisonment is obviously bad for their community, but also irresponsible and complicit to simply accept the situation instead of resolving it, and because this is an internet community there are safe ways to resolve it).

          • ohulancutash@feddit.ukEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            It is however illegal for them to allow such material to remain on their servers once they’re made aware of it.

              • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                0·
                1 month ago

                This is false. The German police will contact the Austrian one, who will share the contact details of the persons legally responsible for publication, and if those happen to be residents of Germany, the Austrian laws are irrelevant to what the German police does.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              0·
              1 month ago

              Their server isn’t located within Germany, from what I’m reading.

              From what I understand, the situation they are worried about is a german authority gaining access to their personal devices or somehow de-anonymizing their accounts and associating them with their actual identity while living in/traveling through germany, and seeing the type of content they are posting/allowing to be posted on a community they moderate.

              The actual risk of exposure to them is incredibly small.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 month ago

      Feddit.org was not started as an law-skirting activist space with specific op-sec requirements.

      My impression when talking with the admins is that they are quite sympethatic to such efforts, but simply ask that to be done somewhere else where it is safer for everyone involved.

    • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      Germans and being complicit because they are “just following laws/orders”. Name a better duo.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
    0·
    1 month ago

    While the servers of feddit.org [http://feddit.org/] are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. [emphasis added]

    In other words, the admins and mods can be held criminally liable for ‘anti-semitic’ speech on feddit.org because of where the admins and mods live.

    If someone that lived in an area where child pornography was legal, and they posted child porn on feddit.org, the mods/admins would have the same legal obligation to remove that content. You can’t hide behind claiming that the servers are in another jurisdiction, when you control them.

    You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way the law goes in Germany. It doesn’t even mean that the mods and admins agree with the law, but they can’t necessarily say what their real feelings are, because that could be taken as anti-semitism as well.

    EDIT: This is why freedom of speech is important, y’all.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
        0·
        1 month ago

        If both CSAM and criticism of the state of Israel are illegal in Germany, then the admins and mods are legally obligated to remove both. Their feelings and beliefs are not relevant to their legal obligation.

        I don’t see how you are incapable of understanding this.

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
            0·
            1 month ago

            ???

            They both obligate moderators and administrators to remove illegal content, and failure to do so can result in criminal penalties for the people running the site.

            Are you intentionally pretending that you don’t understand that both types of content–regardless of any morality–can land the admins in jail?

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      Read the comments and see who’s catching bans. It’s one thing to be made to comply by force, it’s another to be celebrating that you’re now gonna be censoring anti Zionists

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
        0·
        1 month ago

        I can’t see who is catching a ban for what comment, because the comments have been censored. Q.E.D.

        …Much like I have been for pointing out how the law functions. So, that’s cool, I guess.

        FWIW, a number of states int he US have passed anti-BDS laws; it should be blatantly illegal under 1A to prevent institutions from boycotting Israel, and yet, so far, those laws haven’t been seriously challenged.

  • frostysauce@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    Comments will not be removed for the following:

    • Denouncing genocide.
    • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
    • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
    • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

    Y’all grabbed your pitchforks before you even got to that part, didn’t you?

    • deathbird@mander.xyz
      0·
      1 month ago

      What, you’re scared of getting harrassed by your government for wrongthink on your hobby project? You sir are the actual fascist! We’ll defederate! Can’t let any of those instance users access ours. 🤡

    • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 month ago

      • You can criticize Zionism as an ideology, but you can’t call for its end.

      • You can refer to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” but you can’t call for the dissolution of the state of Israel as it currently exists.

      You see the problem, surely?

    • MetalMachine@feddit.nlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      You can’t call for the end of israel, a state started by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and stealing their land. You don’t realize why thats a problem?

  • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany… Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations.

    Lol, they’re trying to pretend that the cops will kick down their doors if someone says “free Palestine” on a server they’re mods of.

    • chobeat@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      I live in Germany, and it’s a totally realistic scenario, especially in Bavaria. They seize computers to intimidate digital activists all the time for way less serious topics.

        • chobeat@lemmy.ml
          0·
          1 month ago

          social media site specifically I don’t know, but raids for managing infrastructure for completely legal but politically inconvenient activities, yes, plenty. I remember going to a talk from a guy managing the servers of Extinction Rebellion and he got all his stuff seized, never got accused of anything, had to wait months to get his stuff back and never got back a few things.

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            Source?

            And that’s very different to just being an admin on a social media site that doesn’t ruthlessly enforce German law.

            • deathbird@mander.xyz
              0·
              1 month ago

              So here’s an article about a raid on an environmentalist group in Germany called Last Generation: https://earth.org/last-generation-activists/

              There’s a link to the German language statement from the police which is quite readable after translation, and of course the article itself describes the general activities that they were engaged in and accused of.

              Of the activities that they were accused of, it does seem in line with prior environmental activist groups like Extinction Rebellion, Greenpeace, and Earth First!

              As for what laws get enforced by a website, that is going to depend on jurisdiction. For example, the USA has section 230 of the DMCA, which holds that website operators are not responsible for user content with the exception of content accused of violating copyright within certain parameters. Doesn’t mean they won’t raid your servers, just means you won’t be held legally responsible if they think you were sufficiently responsive to issues when raised.

              At this time I don’t know the specifics of what Germans have to think about to avoid state interference, but it does look like it is more severe than what the US has to do with.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        1 month ago

        I know that they’re repressing opposition to Israel, but I have not heard of them arresting someone just for being a moderator on a website that doesn’t follow German law.

        • poVoq@slrpnk.net
          0·
          1 month ago

          The moderators less likely, but the server admins quite likely, as those are legally responsible for the publication. Where the server is physically located is actually of lesser relevance in that regard.