• Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.caEnglish
    2263·
    7 days ago

    They’re welcome to it.

    As far as I’m concerned, this is the entire benefit of lemmy/piefed/etc… They can have their space, and any other instance can choose not to federate with them so we aren’t forced to listen to them, unlike the alternative, where an algorithm forces them into everyone’s face.

    Rather than telling them they don’t have the right to speak, we simply have the ability to shut our window and not listen to them.

    Let them bitch at each other.

    • birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      185·
      6 days ago

      I disagree with them being welcome, if we have more fascists over here eventually we’ll get overrun. Best to shut that door immediately.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        13·
        6 days ago

        Them making their own space actually lets us much more easily reduce our exposure to them - without their space we get them everywhere and each of us have to ban such users individuals to avoid their poison, whilst if they’re congregated in a server we can just ban that server and/or its forums.

        In terms of the NAZI bar metaphor, this is more like the NAZIS setting up their own bar and congregating there rather than trying to take over other bars - everybody else can very easilly avoid even looking at the NAZI bar, much less going there and listening to them spreading their ideology - yeah, by default the sound of their activities does leak to the street, but in Lemmy we’re the ones who can chose to close the door, not them.

        Compare that with, for example, how the Zionists captured news@lemmy.world and even up to a level the server itself, by seeking moderation and admin positions there: subverting an existing large traffic forum and the biggest Lemmy instance is way much more pernicious than what the other kind of NAZI are doing by setting up their own - easily avoided - corner.

        • birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          4·
          6 days ago

          You raise good points, but for me the issue is, the Nazis then still have their own bar. And that creates a hub for them to advertise, spread, and sow hatred. And eventually, to try to buy the owners of the media platform. This is the literal “embrace, extend, extinguish” playbook they’re using. Is that not a problem too? How could we combat it best?

          I think it’s better if we shut down their bar and bar them from even coming to any bar.

          They want to go to a bar? Either don’t be a fascist or shut up.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            6·
            6 days ago

            They would have one either way - I mean, just look at Twitter, Reddit, FOX News. Even when there weren’t such NAZI spaces bought and paid for by billionaires, NAZIs had their own websites, mailing lists and whatever.

            Weakenning the freedom inherent to the Fediverse’s implementation just because the NAZIs might use it to create their own space is just indirectly constraining yourself because of the NAZIs, which IMHO is the opposite of what we should be doing.

            Would you defend changing HTTP(S) and HTML to somehow stop NAZIs using it because as they are now they can be used by NAZIs to spread their message? How about e-mail? How about pen and paper?

            You can’t just throw the baby with the bathwater “because NAZIs”.

            If you really want to stop NAZI messaging altogether you can’t do it by Technical means, you have to do it by Social and Political means - Laws Censoring NAZI messaging - and even there, look at Germany that does it and all they seem to have achieved is that the NAZI symbology is hidden whilst a large part of the NAZI way of things is widespread in society (hence the AfD success) and some elements of it are even shared by the majority (hence Germany’s very overtly race-justified unconditional support of a nation commiting a Genocide). De facto Germany’s banning of NAZIsm hasn’t stopped the kind of Fascism like in the US right now or the AfD there, were they use the NAZI propaganda techniques and share many ideological elements with the NAZIs but just don’t use NAZI symbols.

            • birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              3·
              6 days ago

              Barring them from everywhere would be ideal, but if not that, barring them from as many places as possible would be good too. Billionnaires have too much power and they are the powderkeg, in my view, that enabled fascism. So imho, we need to reduce their numbers and wealth, redistributing it to everyone.

              I defend barring fascists everywhere, and not compromising the resilence of the fediverse to censorship from fascists.

              And as for social and political means… in Germany, the AfD has had fewer votes as a % of turnout, than what the Republicans got in the US. I think the real cure is to combat algorithms by the root, and to seize the power over them back to the left and anyone non-fascist (or not as insane).

              • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                6 days ago

                I understand the feeling.

                I also look at it Logically and that yields a more subtle take.

                My point is that thinking that ANYTHING is acceptable to contain the NAZIs (even when it hurts the rest) is forgetting that the whole point of stopping the NAZIs is to protected everybody else and their freedoms.

                I’ll give you a parallel example: start by “Everybody should be thrown in Jail to make sure all criminals are in Jail”. Whilst it would work, this is obviously senseless. Once that’s accepted the discussion becomes “how far should we go to make sure criminals go to Jail” and onwards to “how many innocents wrongly in Jail is acceptable” and “how many criminals who evade Jail is acceptable”.

                All that is what lead to things like a Justice System with Presumption of Innocence, different sentences for different Crimes and an Appeals System.

                When it comes to stopping NAZIs the same reasoning applies - “ANYTHING is acceptable” is obviously senseless (killing all human beings would certainly stop the NAZIs, but I expect we both agree that it’s a bit too much) so the discussion is then moved to “how far are we willing to sacrifice the rest in order to stop the NAZIs”, which is the area of thinking anchoring my original point - if the NAZIs are contained (by their own choice, even), then maybe it’s not worth it to sacrifice the freedom of the rest by mangling the Fediverse if all that would deliver as a result is the near-zero impact outcome of barring the NAZIs from their own separate space in the Fediverse whilst they can still gather elsewhere.

                In my view by wanting that you asked originally, a far greater number of people than the number of NAZIs would sacrifice a lot for something that will make the NAZIs lose very little - or in other words your idea amounts to “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.

                I don’t think that “lets’ fuck up what’s important for almost everybody in order to barelly inconvenience the NAZIs” is a wise position, even if I understand the impulse to “just fuck those sons of a bitch no matter what”.

      • Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.caEnglish
        6·
        6 days ago

        I mean “welcome” in the most generic, passive aggressive Canadian sense of the word. Shutting the door is exactly what the strength of federated/defederated social media is all about.

      • nuggie_ss@lemmings.worldBanned from communityEnglish
        412·
        6 days ago

        You have a very poor understanding of how the fediverse works if you think that’s true.

        You can always section yourself off from the instances you don’t like. If it just so happens that you’re sectioning yourself off from most of the fediverse, then that’s on you.

    • Ofiuco@piefed.caEnglish
      1·
      6 days ago

      Except if you are on lemmy, if another instance user reposts their shit, your instance will get to see that because the devs don’t want to completely block their own propaganda.

      That’s why I moved to Piefed, and the propaganda about my country has plummeted for some reason…

  • Schwim Dandy@piefed.zipEnglish
    23614·
    7 days ago

    Beware of what? It’s no different than any other instance and capable of being subscribed to, scrolled past or blocked.

    Stop advertising for them and let them have their federated echo chamber, just like the communists, socialists, leftists and others have.

  • DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    992·
    6 days ago

    I hate how maga people call themselves patriots. They are the most unamerican people ever. Everything they stand for is in direct opposition to the America ideals.

  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    51·
    6 days ago

    damn, i gotta check out that place later. i wonder how MAGA will interact with the fediverse. like, how can you be anarchistic and bootlicking at the same time?

    edit: this is hilarious.

    bootlicking: check ✅️

    “especially towards Americans”

    well, at least this one i can understand. Now i have to think about What the Turtle said to Achill, somehow.

    this gotta be a troll account. Why is there an “antifa” community on the https://maga.place/ instance?

  • meep_launcher@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    352·
    6 days ago

    Hot take (?):

    It’s fantastic that there is a branch of MAGA who hates the corporate Internet as much as we do.

  • moopet@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    35·
    6 days ago

    safe from the madness and censorship of the fediverse.

    Sounds like they explicitly don’t want to federate. Unless it’s a parody site, I guess.

  • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.worldEnglish
    544·
    7 days ago

    I’ve noticed a significant uptick in rightist trolls on the fediverse since the devil called Charlie Kirk home. Absolutely nowhere is safe from fascist infiltration for long. Hopefully the half decent instances defederate from those cesspits en masse.

    • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      7 days ago

      There are some original style old school websites that are niche and small that are fine. Too small to be worth the bots’ time.

      Eg if you like miniature painting, going to a small, dedicated website forum just for that, is more likely to be genuine than anything like Lemmy or Reddit. And truly it is more decentralized.

  • ristoril_zip@lemmy.zipEnglish
    541·
    7 days ago

    1 month later: why is our new instance filled exclusively with incels and edgelords and fuckwits?

    1 year later: President Trump signs executive order requiring everyone to federate with MAGA

  • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    402·
    7 days ago

    I can’t believe there’s this many people talking about an instance with one user.

    Debating the big issues here guys.

  • 58008@lemmy.worldEnglish
    511·
    7 days ago

    Why would they not just stay on Twitter, Truth Social, reddit or Facebook? Those places are tailor-made for MAGA 🤔

    • Mniot@programming.devEnglish
      23·
      7 days ago

      In the novel Snow Crash, the residents of the white-supremacist micro-state franchises visit other places because they have no non-whites to attack at home.

      • Trainguyrom@reddthat.comEnglish
        3·
        6 days ago

        There was an SNL skit a while ago with a similar vibe. A bunch of white nationalists having a meeting and one guys describing his vision for a white utopia and the other guy is like “yeah I just got back from Vermont and it really sounds like you’re describing Vermont”

    • ganbramor@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      7 days ago

      They probably get bored in their echo chambers and eventually want to try their five or six canned lines on someone new.

      • nuggie_ss@lemmings.worldBanned from communityEnglish
        15·
        6 days ago

        If you think twitter is an echo chamber but lemmy isn’t then I have a bridge to sell you.