the more we’re defederated, the less we’re able to defend ourselves when a meme like this gets blasted across the fediverse.

The CIA was openly present, which gives some context for why things turned so ugly after two months of peace, and for why a false narrative took hold in such a coordinated way afterward. 30 year CIA veteran and regime change expert James Lilley was appointed ambassador to China on April 20th, five days after the start of public gatherings in Tiananmen, which were initially to mourn the April 15 death of Hu Yaobang. Gene Sharp, who literally wrote the manual for how to start nonviolent color revolutions, flew in for 9 days and observed mysterious efforts to drive the protesters to violence — an asset only partially aware of the project he was involved in. The CIA was embedded with the protesters “for months” according to the Vancouver Sun, steering and equipping them. Voice of America was broadcasting disinformation to PLA military bases claiming some units were loyal to the protesters and were firing on other units, literally attempting to whip up a military insurrection. This was a serious US effort to topple the Chinese government, using the momentum of the USSR dissolving and Hu Yaobang’s death.

Also, per Tainanmen, although fatal clashes did occur on Chang’An avenue and elsewhere in the city, during which both civilians and soldiers died, witness testimony from numerous western journalists and diplomats and student organizers themselves who were in the square all night has indicated that no one died in Tiananmen itself. A Spanish news crew even filmed crowds of students walking out of the square at the end of the night.

The first link is a comprehensive article. I can link others on request.

Tiananmen is a stunning example of a Big Lie repeated often enough.

our only defense is not getting divided, which is why this stuff scares me, seeing how easy it is.

I’m optimistic though, I think the red scare stuff is harder in real life, when people are in a real situation with other real people instead of alone at a screen.

on further thought, I’ll just add that I think we’re both defending ourselves and then taking each others’ defenses as attacks to defend against, and it’s a vicious cycle.

I still feel hurt over db0’s two posts tbh. It’s not even the meme, it’s the witch-hunt feeling of that meme being broadcast across all of lemmy to a receptive audience we cannot talk to.

I’m sorry I stressed you out and put you on the defensive. I actually felt the same way. I don’t think either of us intended it. From one communist to another, I hope there are no lasting hard feelings.

make wild accusations about people that want to disengage to bait them back in to defend themselves

ok.

afaik hexbear unanimously hates Gonzalo, which is throwing me off trying to interpret this comment. not being snarky

I didn’t mean to come off that aggressive. But in my own defense, you already told me, earlier in this exact comment chain, that you disagreed with the meme, so I figured it was obvious I was not accusing you of agreeing with it. That was my whole point: you shouldn’t equate hexbear venom in the comments under that meme with our normal, unprovoked behavior or act like you might get the same venom for whatever innocuous shit you would say. That’s still demonizing us.

I expanded both threads and ctrl-f’d your name, after you stressed the point. Everyone was civil with you. Maybe one person was a little stern. My comment with the image wasn’t even there yet when you gestured vaguely at hexbear and said “Well… this kinda shit.” What shit? The obvious interpretation was that you were referring to the very conspicuous hexbear dogpile against /u/db0’s meme and not to some lukewarm responses you got offscreen buried in the comments.

I was drafting a conciliatory response when I saw this comment. I still apologize for how my earlier comment came off. I was not saying that meme represented your feelings. I was emphasizing that it didn’t, and pointing out how inflammatory something has to be for hexbear to come down on it this hard.

[Picture of people being massacred in a pool of their own blood] — “modern online MLs will do this to you in the future if you believe their lies, do not trust them!”

it’s all in good fun though, right tankies I would totally organize with in real life?

take what you give

who broadcast a meme to all of lemmy arguing that modern MLs are treacherous murderers who must be defeated in real life?

I don’t know much about the Hungarian uprising. If the Soviet response was unjustified and draconian when they could have worked something out, that’s fucked up.

Do you have any reading recommendations?

You said “…Well, this kinda shit” and I pointed out what “this kinda shit” was in response to

I don’t usually comment because of… Well, this kinda shit

Were you gonna comment something like this?

Is this what you are holding your tongue from saying while you lurk hexbear?

I’m a real fucking person in the year 2023, I’m not some caricature from 1920.

the meme being posted was “modern MLs are bloodthirsty monsters who will kill you if they ever get in power”

When you view a group as evil, that view tends to result in double standards for behavior, which is what you’re doing.

I’m probably going to dip because I’m too mad to be civil right now

anarchists wrong and evil

not only is that not what we said, but db0 actually said that about us

This was what you posted https://i.imgur.com/RDl2sOZ.png

what part of db0’s crosspost was calling for good faith discussion? Did you look at it? https://lemmy.ml/comment/5783449

$30.50 seems inaccurate. If you’re tipping 20% then you ordered at least $150 worth of food lol.

when leftists say “private property” it means “means of production.” Factories, etc.

Your house is “personal property.” You still own that under socialism.

that’s stupid, then, why would you bother to make a comment like that. Who gives a shit?