I was there, I can form my own opinions, thanks. It was hyperbole, but that was the general level of arguments being made.
If you want left unity, it was a nonsensical way to behave. It was just more sectarianism. It does make sense as a way to behave if you just wanna argue… So thats what I assume the real intent was.
They posted an inflammatory meme meant to stir shit up between folks that share 99% of the same values and should be working together instead of having slapfights on the internet about shit that happened 100 years ago under entirely different material conditions, and for the record I piled on against them too as did some of our other anarchist comrades because it was reddit tier brainrot. If someone post a meme similarly lazily and unfunnily making the same joke about “anarkiddies” we would remove it and chastise the poster.
What do you want me to say? Sorry I’m not as angey as your standards demand? That all that dogpiling and toxic behavior was chill and fine because of a fucky meme? I declare hexbear.net the sovereign leader of all of leftism, I’ll say whatever you want, just chill tf out
I’m very chill, I was just pointing out why it seems like we are aggressive.
The removal of downvotes on our end mean people have to actually make the effort to tell you that you are wrong and why, and not just downvote and move on.
Trust me it is a much better system than downvotes, we have had a long time with developing policies to foster productive discussion.
When someone is so aggressively wrong or clearly posting troll bait, then of course they will perceive the pushback as aggressive as well.
I lurk on hexbear often. I don’t usually comment because of… Well, this kinda shit, since it is hard to describe.
And I don’t need you to explain to me how you think I’m misunderstanding how aggressive you are. I can form my own opinions about how aggressive hexbear user behavior is.
Edit to clarify: Because that is what “this kinda shit” is in response to. If you aren’t about to post something like /u/db0 posted then you aren’t about to get the response that /u/db0 has gotten.
Motherfucker you responded to me. To my comments. You are actively doing this kind of shit right now without me saying any of that. If you wanna complain about the meme go do it to someone who agrees with it.
Idk if you are just messing with me now but I’ll say it again: I didn’t like that meme either. Don’t fucking try to “gotcha” me with it or its points again because I don’t fucking agree with it
I don’t comment on hexbear because I don’t want to be talked down to and disrespected for no reason. Many users are extremely condescending and rude.
I’m very chill, I was just pointing out why it seems like we are aggressive.
I mean i am on hb since the start and criticism of anything ml was always met with aggression, not only if it was inflammatory. That1s why joeysteel was banned for starters.
the meme being posted was “modern MLs are bloodthirsty monsters who will kill you if they ever get in power”
And y’all had a chance to prove the meme wrong by not turning it into a dick measuring contest with spamming equally shitty sectarian shit that on hexbear would get you kicked out (anarchists are worthless, anarchists can’t coordinate, etc.),. And it always ends like this. Anytime i mention that in the hungarian revolution the workers councils were a way more significant factor than any western influence and they literally set up groups to hunt nazis the same agresszive smug shit arrives from people who never read anything about the topic apart from the fucking Aptheker book. I feel like the ML userbase (who are right about basically anything when it comes to capitalism) would rather off themselves that even admit that any ml leader even marginally engaged in self-serving abuse of power. Of course anarchists who aren’t familiar with the site wont be happy.
All three are examples of ml leaders who took huge Ls abusing their power that nobody is afraid to criticize. I’m not familiar enough with the boiled baby guy to say whether he was actually an ml or if it was another pol pot situation.
Gonzalo was a self-proclaimed Maoist, part of the reason we say ML-MZT and not MLM in English
If you want criticism of a self-proclaimed ML (and don’t count Pol Pot because that claim was not even paper thin), Khrushchev is someone we all hate who has slightly more of a claim to the title, though naturally I would argue that he is a revisionist.
If you want criticism of an actual ML, we criticize Stalin and Mao all the time, but usually not on “selfish abuse of power” terms because that generally isn’t what they did compared to simply being a bit reactionary or foolish (often right and left deviationism, respectively, though that is a slight stretch for the Four Pests case).
Naturally, if it is an ideology we believe in, then actions we disagree with are generally going to be outside of what we consider those principles to be.
I don’t know much about the Hungarian uprising. If the Soviet response was unjustified and draconian when they could have worked something out, that’s fucked up.
I was there, I can form my own opinions, thanks. It was hyperbole, but that was the general level of arguments being made.
If you want left unity, it was a nonsensical way to behave. It was just more sectarianism. It does make sense as a way to behave if you just wanna argue… So thats what I assume the real intent was.
the meme being posted was “modern MLs are bloodthirsty monsters who will kill you if they ever get in power”
When you view a group as evil, that view tends to result in double standards for behavior, which is what you’re doing.
I’m probably going to dip because I’m too mad to be civil right now
Hi, if you read what I said I also did not like the meme originally posted. I’m just trying to be constructive about it instead of angey and loud.
Edit: “angey” was a typo but it makes me laugh
They posted an inflammatory meme meant to stir shit up between folks that share 99% of the same values and should be working together instead of having slapfights on the internet about shit that happened 100 years ago under entirely different material conditions, and for the record I piled on against them too as did some of our other anarchist comrades because it was reddit tier brainrot. If someone post a meme similarly lazily and unfunnily making the same joke about “anarkiddies” we would remove it and chastise the poster.
What do you want me to say? Sorry I’m not as angey as your standards demand? That all that dogpiling and toxic behavior was chill and fine because of a fucky meme? I declare hexbear.net the sovereign leader of all of leftism, I’ll say whatever you want, just chill tf out
I’m very chill, I was just pointing out why it seems like we are aggressive.
The removal of downvotes on our end mean people have to actually make the effort to tell you that you are wrong and why, and not just downvote and move on.
Trust me it is a much better system than downvotes, we have had a long time with developing policies to foster productive discussion.
When someone is so aggressively wrong or clearly posting troll bait, then of course they will perceive the pushback as aggressive as well.
Yes I know about the downvote situation.
I lurk on hexbear often. I don’t usually comment because of… Well, this kinda shit, since it is hard to describe.
And I don’t need you to explain to me how you think I’m misunderstanding how aggressive you are. I can form my own opinions about how aggressive hexbear user behavior is.
Were you gonna comment something like this?
Is this what you are holding your tongue from saying while you lurk hexbear?
I’m a real fucking person in the year 2023, I’m not some caricature from 1920.
Motherfucker you responded to me. To my comments. You are actively doing this kind of shit right now without me saying any of that. If you wanna complain about the meme go do it to someone who agrees with it.
Wtf? No?
Idk if you are just messing with me now but I’ll say it again: I didn’t like that meme either. Don’t fucking try to “gotcha” me with it or its points again because I don’t fucking agree with it
I don’t comment on hexbear because I don’t want to be talked down to and disrespected for no reason. Many users are extremely condescending and rude.
I mean i am on hb since the start and criticism of anything ml was always met with aggression, not only if it was inflammatory. That1s why joeysteel was banned for starters.
Yeah, he was banned for being too aggressive you fucking nitwit, i.e. violating community norms
Irony is dead
And y’all had a chance to prove the meme wrong by not turning it into a dick measuring contest with spamming equally shitty sectarian shit that on hexbear would get you kicked out (anarchists are worthless, anarchists can’t coordinate, etc.),. And it always ends like this. Anytime i mention that in the hungarian revolution the workers councils were a way more significant factor than any western influence and they literally set up groups to hunt nazis the same agresszive smug shit arrives from people who never read anything about the topic apart from the fucking Aptheker book. I feel like the ML userbase (who are right about basically anything when it comes to capitalism) would rather off themselves that even admit that any ml leader even marginally engaged in self-serving abuse of power. Of course anarchists who aren’t familiar with the site wont be happy.
How many people did we shoot in the thread? Are you that easy to pander to?
Ask them about Khrushchev and co’s destalinization or 70s Mao or Gonzalo.
afaik hexbear unanimously hates Gonzalo, which is throwing me off trying to interpret this comment. not being snarky
All three are examples of ml leaders who took huge Ls abusing their power that nobody is afraid to criticize. I’m not familiar enough with the boiled baby guy to say whether he was actually an ml or if it was another pol pot situation.
Gonzalo was a self-proclaimed Maoist, part of the reason we say ML-MZT and not MLM in English
If you want criticism of a self-proclaimed ML (and don’t count Pol Pot because that claim was not even paper thin), Khrushchev is someone we all hate who has slightly more of a claim to the title, though naturally I would argue that he is a revisionist.
If you want criticism of an actual ML, we criticize Stalin and Mao all the time, but usually not on “selfish abuse of power” terms because that generally isn’t what they did compared to simply being a bit reactionary or foolish (often right and left deviationism, respectively, though that is a slight stretch for the Four Pests case).
Naturally, if it is an ideology we believe in, then actions we disagree with are generally going to be outside of what we consider those principles to be.
I don’t know much about the Hungarian uprising. If the Soviet response was unjustified and draconian when they could have worked something out, that’s fucked up.
Do you have any reading recommendations?