Leo Dal Pozzo

Hey thanks for reaching out. I had a personal lemmy instance few years ago, but then life changed and i abandoned it. This thing of communities defederating each others for ridiculus reasons it’s really embarassing and annoying, i think i’ll go back to make my own instance because being able to see only part of the conversation is absurd.

Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community

I was aware of this :) my point was not to try to convince the person i’m interact with, but to show the people that are reading that there is a good and a bad way to study and analyze conflicts. Hopefully some reader got something out of it. I expect and don’t mind the downvotes.

Thanks for the links and for the suggestions, they are appreciated. I’ll take a look later today. Have a great day and thanks for caring

This comment shows your real colours and how actually shallow you are. You don’t have anything to back up your claims, you say at the same time that the drones are russian jammed and that they are a deliberate attack to test defenses. You don’t realise that a lot of people having a feeling doesn’t transform that feeling on a fact. Especially if that feeling is carefully crafted by a gigantic media machine. Easier for you to call me Tankie, Russia-friendly, even nazi even if the only thing to back this up is that i disagree with your “analysis”. You are just the result of a sick society where people are tought that ther opinion always matters even when based on other people’s opinion only and when confronted can only shut the door and close themselves in their own bubble. That’s ok, i hope you people will not drag us all to doom thanks to your armchair analysis based on a youtube video.

There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here.

You are using one of the biggest AMERICAN scandal to say that Russia is doing the same. Do you see the issue here?

Electronic warfare can make drones go off course

Yes, that’s exactly my point. the drones that we are being told are just a signal of an impending military attack from Russia, most of the times are just jammed Ukrainians drones

Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn’t sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.

Again you are just parroting a viewpoint that it’s just an opinion and pure speculation. No fact proves that it was a deliberate attack.

They are already saying they are fighting NATO!

NATO countries are providing to Ukraine weapons, ammunitions, intelligence, specialised troops (for the pointing system of some air defence systems), fundings, GPS and target data. Doesn’t seem so crazy for me that they are saying they are fightning NATO. Equipare that to the possibility of Russia actively attacking a NATO country is a choice based on your feelings, not really a fact.

The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked.

So they wanted to make addicted to their gas and oil so they could declare war to us later and stop that commerce entirely? i don’t see the logic

I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.

So Russia has built strong economic ties with the EU so that when Russia would attack the EU (so basically NATO), the EU will stay silent and let them do? This is literally nonsense.

You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn’t any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.

I engaged in this conversation because i assumed an open mindset and an academic approach towards the issue. You ask for sources but the only one you provide is a youtube video and based on the flimsiness of your claims, that’s probably the maximum extent at which you “study” conflicts. Then you end the speech with a pathetic tirade over nazis to show how though you are and obviously hinting at the fact that, at one point you had to say it, i’m pro-russia in your mind. I really try to have a discussion that doesn’t end in a toddler-level conversation or people just choosing a faction like if it was a footbal team, but if this is the level of the conversation i don’t see benefits in continuing it.

It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it’s neighbors for the last decades

Every single country in the world has been doing this since the invention of politics. the US has literally military bases in most countries, but you don’t seem as worried about them despite they are the one who waged infinite wars for the past 70 years.

It’s hard to believe that they didn’t eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.

It’s easier to believe when you look at the history of Russia, their claims (believable or not, their claims is their justifications toward their own people, so they have to stick to those). the fact that attacking an alliance of 30 countries is insane and unsellable to the Russians, that a War with europe will cut completely disrupt commerce and that will be devastating for the Russian economy itself, resulting in making Putin weaker and he definitely doesn’t want that. Some more: Russia has spent billions in resources to build economical ties with Europe, like the north stream. It’s unplausible that at the same time they plotted to attack the very alliance they spent decades building encomic ties with.

For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn’t be an issue to provide?

Your skeptic tone seems to give for assumed that my sources are unreliable. Fair enough, i just wish you would apply the same skepticism also to the news you like. Anyway:

• Latvia’s Defense Minister Steps Down After Ukrainian Drones Hit Oil Tanks (Kyivpost)
• [List of Ukrainian incursions to Finnish and Baltic airspace in 2026 (Wikipedia)](2026 Ukrainian drone incursions into the Baltic states and Finland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Ukrainian_drone_incursions_into_the_Baltic_states_and_Finland))
• The russian drone that hit the polish house and killed two people that was pushed for days on EU news? Was actually a polish missile

The damaging of the residential building in Wyryki caused a scandal domestically, with Prime Minister Donald Tusk being accused of attempting to cover up that the damage was caused by a Polish missile; furthermore, President Karol Nawrocki and the National Security Bureau had allegedly not been informed of the Polish origin of the missile.[42]

While there is no doubt that some Russian drones are jammed and fall on NATO or EU countries. There is no proof, only political speculation, about these drones being sent on purpose by Russia to attack. What we know for sure is that, so far, the drones that created real damages were all Ukrainian. You are free to justify this, but changing the facts because more convenient that way is propaganda.

It doesn’t get more transparent than that in a war situation.

But all the things you listed don’t seem to have anything to do with the progress in the battlefield, but more with the politics that surround them. There are way more diverse interests when it comes to that. It’s not as important as showing Ukraine as the winning part in the war, which is fundamental to keep the public opinion on their side and therefor continue the stream of funds and armaments toward Ukraine.

I don’t know what reporting you “watch” i just hope it’s not some random youtuber, but instead you are using accademical sources or at least their methodology.

What other viewpoint would you like to be represented?

Don’t get me wrong. Anyone who studied history and a bit of military history know that propaganda from both sides is core to every single conflict that ever happened in the world. It’s natural and expected that Ukrainian propaganda is pushed ad nauseam to all allies countries in the conflict. This worked very well, because if you dare to doubt it you are immediately called a putinist, so the conversation die there. Look at propaganda posters from WWI and WWII of all sides and you will see a lot of similarities with today’s narrative or even better, look how Napoleon was presented in european propaganda in the 19th century.

Personally, i would really like that people would learn how to inform themselves, and i would like that more voice would be given to accademic experts or people that study war for a living. Instead we hear only politicians and what is convenient to hear: a lot of drones appear across Europe, everyone immediately assume they are Russian and that’s what get pushed in the news for days, but then when the military apparatus (so relatively disconnected from the political goals of the country) of some of the most anti-russian countries, like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians, that information get posted only on specialised outlets or maximum a couple of lines in a single newspaper to never be mentioned again. Nobody seems also to care that several intelligence agencies of multiple countries (again Poland and Latvia in primis) keep saying that there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe, but still, this is not the message that we receive by our politicians and news, because it’s not politically convenient. Instead anything that gives the feeling that Russia could attack europe any second get amplified out of proportions. Isn’t the aim more than clear there?

People are not making informed choices and the information they receive is carefully crafted to go in a single direction. As i said this has been normal in every conflict that ever happend. Also the thing of thinlking ours is good propaganda and theirs is bad propaganda is regular stuff during a war. I’m personally very worried because nuclear war is right behind the corner.

You are still presenting a very partial viewpoint, where Ukrainian outles are considered fair and attempting to be transparent while the other sode doesn’t. I’m very interested and study “military things” and i have studied this conflict for about 7 years now, so i hope i can bring a useful viewpoint. If you actually want to study a conflict or conflicts in general, it’s fundamental to be as close as poasible to the sources and unserstand the problem of uncritically accepting the viewpoint coming from one of the two belligerants. Labelling people from an entire instance “putinist” is already a red flag for me. I’ve been called putinist a million time just because i invite people to have a more accademic and historical-based approach to this and other conflicts. My opinion of Putin doesn’t seem to interest to anyone, if i don’t glorify Ukraine and agree with every piece of propaganda they push, i’m definitely with the ebemy.

A great example is the Institute for the study of war, which is the main source for western media about Ukraine. They are a huge propaganda machine that sell themselves as neutral but it’s an absolutely pro-ukraine source. I read their reports almost daily and they tought me a great deal of the power of propaganda in war times. A great example is the recent worldwide celebration for Russia apparently not gaining as much terrain as they used to and even Ukrain gaining some. This is all over the news, but when you go look it up you find out that this reversion on the battlefield happen when the ISW added a new item to their maps: “russian infiltrations”. Now if they see only few soldiers advancing in an area is not considered an advancement, but an infiltration, which doesn’t get reported in the maps (edit: i meant to say in the final calculation of the kilometers lost/gained, not maps). No newspaper seems to be interested in pointing this out to clarify the data they give us, the same way as nobody mention that the sources of the ISW are for the almost totality either the Ukrainian defense ministry or telegram channels affiliated with combating units. None of these sources will give reliable or objective information.

I understand not trusting russian news, i don’t trudt them either, but i found way more interesting to stufy the discrepancies in the sources we are presented as reliable.

My criticism is not about the news outlet itself, even if, as the earlier responder to my comment pointed out, they make bold and unsourced claims, which is bad journalism practice, even if very common nowadays. My point is that every day this sub is bombarded with news about the war coming from ukrainian outlets, which will be of course extremely partial, as they have to be if they want to keep writing under martial law. I never see a russian domain posting news here because they would be rightfully considered unreliable. I’m amazed that instead every single ukrainian website is allowed here even if it’s clear propaganda (euromaidanpress the worst offender) that uses as sources almost exclusively communication from the government or the state apparatus. We are being bombarded with one sided news that come directly from the Ukrainian state. That’s not less propaganda because we are sympathetic with the country that it’s producing it.

I just hoped that at least here there would be more attention, care and quality of the discussion.

Both, but i have a problem with the fact that propaganda is not supposed to be allowed here, but i see daily streams of dubious websites pushing bold and completely unsourced claims. I feel that they are allowed because that’s the propaganda people like. I really hope i would find conversations of higher level around here, but so far it has been quite disappointing

Almost funny, until we remember that thanks to their iperindividualism and right wing mentality we have had constant wars for the last 70 years.

Isn’t in this sub propaganda forbidden or only matters when the propaganda is from Russia? I get bombarded daily and it’s becoming a bit ridiculus, especially because the level is really low. Is this a place for news or for people to push their own favourite propaganda outlet? I would understand if it was from reliable sources, but jeusus anything posted from a .ua domain seems to be allowed no matter what. Feels like being on reddit.

Aren’t the weapon provides bu the US already paid by the EU?

Or don’t do little miningless things that give you the excuse to not do anything about the real problems.

I came back here after a long time and i had the same feeling. I think has more to do with the level of the discussion at large nowadays, more than the platform itself.

I’ll add one that supersedes all the other you listed: stop making sacrifices while the rich are the ones destroying the planet and build a guillottine.

Talking about it openly already creates a big diplomatical issue and embarassment for Israel, which might very much be his main goal.

Right, “you were just doing your job” …

Yes, and you could have answered “thanks for your input, but we are going to stick with our rules because we have our reasons”, instead you basically tell me “Doesn’t matter what you think, these are the rules and you must respect them. No discussion allowed”. I mean sure, you make the rules, but the way you enforce them and react to criticism speaks for itself.

So if we celebrated hitler’s death we lack humanity? People should be free to celebrate a death if they feel to. Forcing your idea of a moral code over people is not nice. We are not talking about celebrating violence, a crime or wishing for somebody’s death.

People should be free to express their feelings if they don’t hurt anyone, without having to fear the morality police. The point of modorators should be to create a welcoming and safe space, not to impose your morality on others.

Your point was about trust tho. How can somebody trust Russia after they turned out to be unreliable? What i’m asking is, how is this not an even more valid question toward the US and instead we give for assumed our uncodnditional allegiance? Seems like a relationship more similar to that between vassal and overlord.

Maybe i don’t, but what i learned in these years of studying history and military history tends to conflict to people’s opinion when it’s based on very strong feelings and not much more.