Imagine being a liberal right now lmfao You’re pissed at EVERYTHING and yelling at your allies while the people you’re telling them to vote for are supporting the very thing making you furious.
Fuckin’ awesome.
If we all showed up to vote blue then thwre would be no Trump appointments to be mad at.
All that voting Blue did in the past two decades was kicking the can down the road, while blocking aerious efforts to form a political power willing to bring the can back up the road.
Trump isn’t an anomaly. Trump is the symptom of a broken system that was deliberately broken further and further with bipartisan support. And we still see the Democrats staying at breaking things further and helping Trump instead of forming a proper opposition.
They still rather fight progressives like AOC and Sanders than fighting Trump.
There haven’t been 60 Democrat senators since 1979, haven’t been more than 50 in over 10 years. The most productive congress in the last 20 years was when the DNC plus caucusing IND had supermajority for only 72 days, and it gave us medicaid expansion, was a single IND vote away from Public Option.
Rhoeri is gonna rest their case so hard when they get here. Then we will all be sorry!
Rhoeri will say “lmao” and end any and all criticisms with citations!
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Sorry yall. It was Fetterman or Oz and we fucking ended up with both.
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I’m forming a new party called the “Guillotines for anyone with more money than me party”
We’ll guillotine anyone with more money than me. That’s my whole platform. I don’t have a lot but I’m comfortable. If you also don’t have a lot but you’re comfortable boy do I have the party for you!
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The only reason Cory did his speech was to cover for Chuck Schumer declaring his job as a Senator is to serve Israel.
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I was thinking it
mods have been deleting my comments that remind people that Biden and the Democrats gleefully committed genocide and lost the election for their refusal to even suggest they’ll stop it.
When will people wake up and realize the Democrats are not on our side, not the lesser evil? They exist to give us an illusion that someone is fighting on our behalf, they exist to pacify us, they exist to allow capitalism to turn us into wage-slaves.
They’ll take a knee with us, they’ll give record breaking speeches, they’ll march with us in the peaceful phases, they’ll be on the front line even. They’ll hold rallies and raise incredible amounts to “flight fascism”, and then they’ll step in line and vote to keep the wheel turning RIGHT.
Democrats are not on our side, not the lesser evil?
So what are you going to do? Not vote?
Guillotine Party.
Them: Option A is evil Nazis, option B is nice Nazis.
You: So what are you going to do? Not vote?
Those are not the options.
mods have been deleting my comments that remind people that Biden and the Democrats gleefully committed genocide and lost the election for their refusal to even suggest they’ll stop it.
Why they are so threatened by AOC and Sanders.
I fully expect the DNC to launch a bigger underhanded attack against the both of them than the Republicans do.
Why they are so threatened by AOC and Sanders, and the calls for the old guard to GTFO
Both Sanders and AOC both support Israel. The progressive base may like them better than “the old guard” but they’re not exactly in love with these two. It’s a begrudging vote, not a happy one.
Hasn’t Sanders opposed Israeli military policy pretty publicly, including voting to block arms sales? [1] [2]
Didn’t AOC accuse Israel of committing genocide on the house floor? [3]
In what way do they support Israel? It hasn’t been my impression that they support genocide or American culpability in it.
They’ve only very recently begun to change their public opinion on it. Last year this time Bernie was catching heat for refusing to support a permanent ceasefire;
Senator Bernie Sanders’s refusal to call for a permanent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas has put him at odds with many of the same progressives […] ^1
Additionally, this is AOCs stance on Israel: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ocasio-cortez-statement-first-anniversary-october-7th
As you can see, she strongly condemns Hamas, which is great. She strongly condemns Israel, and Netanyahu, which is great. And I totally agree with the entire statement all the way down until the last paragraph;
None of this was inevitable. And it can still be stopped. Hamas, Israel, and Hezbollah should agree to a lasting ceasefire in Gaza and Lebanon.
Hamas is a terrorist organization which was quite literally created by Israel by their systematic abuse of an entire group of people. There’s nothing about this entire situation that wasn’t inevitable. You can’t abuse a people for decades, encroach on their lives, livelihood, murder them, strongly police them, continually treat them like shit and sub-human and expect them not to retaliate. Much like the US is directly responsible for the situations leading to terrorist attacks against the US, Israel is also directly responsible for Hamas.
Even aside from all of this, her views on Israel again, just like Sanders are relatively new. Just last year she was about to be censured by other party members for being too soft on Israel ^1.
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.” – Elie Wiesel
So yeah, it’s great that they’re just now coming around to the plight of Gaza and the Palestinians it’s not like they actually believe it. It’s all politically motivated. They’re beginning to understand that unless they condemn Israel they won’t be elected–which is pretty fucked up IMO.
Sanders didn’t even show up or rally for mohsen mahdawi, who is HIS CONSTITUENT, after they were illegally detained for speaking out against Israel.
Nobody is coming for us.
Nobody in power is going to risk losing their grip on it to advocate for real material progress and dismantle the institutions that give them that power in the first place.
Nobody in congress deserves to lead the people. The workers do.
So a lesser evil?
I mean, support for genocide is wholly evil, I don’t care what your other policies are. lol Evil is evil lil bro. There’s no such thing as a lesser degree of evil.
It would be the same if like, Donald Trump was a perfect candidate, but he’s also a sexual predator. That should immediately disqualify him, otherwise you’re supporting that behavior.
Bernie and AOC most closely align with my political viewpoints, but they’re also supporting genocide… If I support them, then I’m also supporting genocide. Is what it is.
If that pisses you off, then maybe talk to Bernie and/or AOC about their stance on Israel.
Yes. There are several recent instances where he’s “slamming” Israel. And then 3 decades where they’re best friends, including up to the end of 2024…
Yah the one governor hugging Trump. I mean come on.
And just to be clear, you think The Grifter Party cares about you? Sorry, Green - the Green party.
Sometimes I get their name and their actions mixed up.
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The last three months should have been a stark reminder to everyone that after a certain amount of time in their positions, politicians stop seeing non-politicians as real people and everything just becomes a game.
Bourgeois party. Capitalism is incompatible with democracy.
Democracy needs capitalism.
Capitalism does not need Democracy.
Could you walk me through why you think democracy necessitates capitalism?
Capitalism on its own is very anti-democratic. Given enough time, most industries would become a monopoly.
A strong Democracy should have sufficient guard rails for the population to counteract the influence of capitalism: strong unions, solid worker protections, limitation of money in politics, higher tax rates on wealth, and so on. The Nordic countries are a good example of this.
Ok, I think we’re miscommunicating. Either my question was’t formulated very clearly, or I misunderstood what you said in the first place. I took what you said (“democracy needs capitalism”) to mean “if you want democracy, you need capitalism”, or alternatively “if you don’t have capitalism, you cannot have democracy”. My question is why you believe this (if you do, that is; I may have misunderstood).
Your answer I completely agree with, but it just argues that capitalism is harmful to democracy and that at best democracy is like a guard rail for capitalism. If anything it shows that capitalism and democracy are kind of incompatible.
And it’s a side track, but the Nordic countries are not a good example of democracy counteracting the excesses of capitalism. They’ve just outsourced the worst of the misery to the global South. And domestically the situation for workers gets worse year by year (although they’re a long way from dropping to American levels).
It does if you want people to afford to buy your stuff. Or to have your stuff on the shelves. Happy tariff day. I heard another boat returned to China with no toys dropped off.
Without democracy, capitalism just becomes fascism.
Agreed that capitalism can morph into a hideous beast if not controlled, but would you consider China fascist?
No.
Alright at this point we should just clean house everyone in executive, Congress and Judiciary needs to go
Or, hear me out, make sure people like Trump always lose in the future so they can’t initiate any appointments ever again.
Then maybe biden should have hired an AG who was interested in pursuing justice, instead of dragging things out so biden could run as second worst to trump again.
B-but the decorum, the hypothetical high road!
People like Trump shouldn’t be eligible for fucking office. If you have Felonies pending or served you should never be able to run for office period
You mean being convicted of breaking the law shouldn’t be a badge of honor?
Yeah, that’s great, but he is. What now?
I get black bagged and die.
Like it’s almost like you ignored the context completely or something.
Traitors to america
The Democrats never actually opposed fascism, they just invoked it because they knew it was unpopular. The problem of the Democrats is that you can’t constantly run on things you have no intention of following through on, without having voters stop believing you eventually.
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VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO!!!
jfc.
This is what primaries are for. If you vote up or don’t vote, it’s a vote for fascism.
primaries
Ha.
You pretending they do not exist does not change reality. Presidential is not the only race, nor is it even the most important overall
Pretending that the primaries (when they happen at all) are fair doesn’t mean they are.
The party went to court and successfully argued that they don’t have to run honest primaries. Anyone who suggests primaries as a means to end the entrenched conservative hegemony in democratic party leadership knows better and is gloating.
So your response is that you’d rather watch the country burn in hell than vote democratic to stave it off?
Anyone who suggests primaries as a means to end the entrenched conservative hegemony in democratic party leadership knows better and is gloating.
Fair? When did I say fair? They’re not fair. But, the votes in them are not rigged.
So your response is that you’d rather watch the country burn in hell than vote democratic to stave it off?
All criticism of your shitty worthless republican-lite party does not mean advocacy for voting for the slightly worse party it keeps trying to be.
Fair? When did I say fair? They’re not fair. But, the votes in them are not rigged.
Don’t need to rig the vote if you sue to keep challengers off the ballot and then decide not to hold primaries at all.
All criticism of your shitty worthless republican-lite party does not mean advocacy for voting for the slightly worse party it keeps trying to be.
,yes? that’s literally my issue. It’s advocating to not vote, which is russian propaganda driven and only serves to reduce real ability to fight fascism in favor of grandstanding online as a keyboard warrior.
Don’t need to rig the vote if you sue to keep challengers off the ballot and then decide not to hold primaries at all.
That is not a common practice. It happens, yes. But it’s not common
Unironically that would have prevented all of this, yes.
Trump ran as a Democrat at one point. Just vote for him, the rules are the rules.
Can you fight them as hard as they fought you
Nope
Filibuster maybe?
Only when there’s nothing pending
Procedural moves that slow them down
Nah
Could you at least not vote to enable them
Votes to enable them silently with intense eye contact
What the fuck can you do?
Pulls out phone, texts you for $20 for their battle fund
Jesus fucking christ
It’s time for the US to form a centrist party, instead of people having to choose between far right, right, and far left.
The US only has a far-right party and a further right party. When has the Democrats ever advocated for anything at all left of center, other than Bernie’s Medicare for All, which since most nations on earth have some government provided healthcare, is more centrist, than center-left.
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The dems are the centrists. We need an actual left party.
Only with the extreme Overton shift in the US. Democrats may be more progressive than Republicans, but that’s really not saying much. Most actual Democrat policy is right of center, to the frustration of representatives like Sanders and AOC.
its already center right, no need for centrism.
Still, what the USA needs is a left party, not a centrist party.
The Socialist party already exists?
OK, then what the USA needs is a left party with funds and good advertising.
while the MSM is mostly owned by conservative, they will make sure any other party dont get press.
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They’re centered in terms of being centered against Republicans not left vs right
Where is this “far left” you speak of?
Like where is any party saying to abolish private property, arrest the billionaires, and give the entire means of production to the working class?
Nancy Pelosi queen democrat literally said we live in a free market after making her 200 million playing stock market games.
Every single democrat, Bernie and AOC included, just gave full-throated support to Biden as he presided over the greatest wealth transfer in history.
What far left? You mean the “far left” that continues to support the surveillance state in the US or the “far left” that continues to support the total destruction of Gaza? I can keep going, those are only the first two that came to mind.
I don’t get this whole Gaza thing. Seems you Americans are distracted by Gaza well your own house is burning down around you. Take care of the house fire first.
While what’s happening in Gaza is horrific, it’s sadly far down on the list of grievances against the so called “far left” in the US. It was just one that came immediately to mind. They’ve also had no problem with “Citizens United” which allowed unlimited money in politics, they’ve continued to support the police state in the US, a lack of any meaningful movement on healthcare.
Joe Manchin is no longer a Senator but he used to be considered a “centrist”. He was a fucking coal barron who used his influence to get his daughter a made up MBA, she in turn was CEO of Mylan when they jacked up prices on the life saving Eli-pen.
But if we vote/advocate third parties, or converse in conservative spaces or .ML, .Lemmygrad*, on Lemmy, we’re trolls or shills. 🤮
This is the time for third parties. I get why people were saying not to talk about them during the election but now is the time because it’s obvious that the Dems continue to not have a spine.
It was obvious every election cycle since FDR too. It’s past time for us to stop crossing oceans and moving mountains for those who won’t jump a puddle or molehill for us. Politicians, I mean. I’ll still cast my vote to help the “sane liberals”, conservatives, and marxists who would let me starve in the streets or drop dead in the fields while harvesting their food, or in their bathroom I may be cleaning at the time.
Not committing self harm isn’t equivalent to Moving Mountains etc. This is the whole problem with that standpoint. Yes the genocides that the United States Russia and China are committing are inexcusable. They were also not actually on the ballot. There was no one who stood a chance of getting elected that was going to make those better. But there was one that vowed to make things worse. And they won. Like many of us said they would. There is no single one group that deserves credit for that victory. But the margin of votes was with in single digit percentage. It wasn’t moving a mountain.
I’m not here to accuse you of being happy with the outcome. But can you admit that you might have been taken advantage of. That your sincere Ernest desire to see things fixed may have been manipulated and taken advantage of to your own detriment and the determent of people you care about. Because I can tell you 100% that fascists, leninists, and other groups absolutely we’re stirring the pot. Not caring about who got hurt.
I have no problem with anyone talking to them and trying to de program any of those groups. What I do have a problem with, are people repeating propaganda and being manipulated by these groups to get everyone hurt. We are here.
As an anarchist I wish to see all national parties disbanded and abolished. Democrat, republican, green, libertarian, vanguard. And you’re not wrong that a lot of this has been going on since and including FDR. He should have actually tried and hung everyone found guilty of being involved with the business plot. Instead of making backroom deals to get Social Security Etc passed. Something which the people he spared said about to immediately after it’s passage, gutting it.
The sad thing is, that Democrats deny their role in the failure, just as many of the so-called people on the left who spent so much time attacking them. But as they say success has many fathers, while failure is a bastard.
You’re only worried about the immediate future. Which, yes, is bad. But many refusing to vote for the DNC are doing so because they’re complicit in enabling this bullshit political atmosphere where people are so tired of bullshit politicians who do shit like break a record to “stand up to trump” and then vote to confirm his appointee. So they either give up on voting altogether or are willing to vote for a literal dictator and the DNC’s response is to fight harder against progressives than it does trump. Then in response to losing runs someone whose message is “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So, yeah, if people had completely abandoned the DNC like they should have, maybe we wouldn’t have ever seen it get this bad. But they’re happy with it this bad. They get to pretend they care and keep making money. So yeah, there are plenty of people who refuse to vote for them because they’re happily helping to destroy democracy. (Including suing to remove 3rd parties from ballots, yay!)
Are you implying that the kidnappings torture and persecution are only short-term? Do you not understand that we will have to win back our basic rights at this point. Not just for our immigrant friends and family, but all minorities? That seems a really obtuse and uninformed viewpoint. Which I’m hoping it’s just a misunderstanding on my part. And that that’s not your actual stance. This shit is serious and not short-term. We will be suffering this for Generations.
I mean unless you have some Surefire non-vanguardist radical action in your pocket or something.
Literally just said I know it’s bad. Not implying it isn’t. I’m saying the DNC has been actively working towards this even being possible for years. Because they only need to run hitler -$50. And they’re happy with that. They would rather lose to Trump than lose any money. And that’s why people stop voting. And that’s why Trump is fucking even possible.
I’m just fucking tired of people defending the DNC. They’re just as big of a part of the problem as republicans.
The voters are as much to blame as the dnc. Stop trying to push all the blame on to them. So which is it and be clear. Am i only concerned about short-term shit. Or is this shit meaningful and you’re just flip-flopping wildly. Twisting in the wind trying to pin everything on Democrats and nothing on you or anyone else like you.
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And yet, the 3rd parties themselves don’t seem to do anything until the Presidential election year. If they were serious, they’d be out there now, putting up candidates in the much-easier-to-win midterms, talking about how they’re really different from the entrenched parties. They don’t. They only come out of the woodwork and put up spoiler candidates for President.
Absolutely agreed. And I’m not sure the better alternative to Reddit is a “federated” platform where the mods highest priority seems to delete comments that call the Democrats what they are: nice Nazis.
Blue MAGA
Yet I keep hearing from y’all (world users) “wahhhhh we need to blindly back the Democrats” and “When the dems elect someone significantly more right than Kamala like Shapiro or Fetterman we need to blindly vote for them”.
Exactly! The time for third parties is between elections. 😜
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Guillotine Party. A Democratic version of the Tea Party. Don’t promote a third party; replace the current one from the inside out.
Promote electoral reform. Something we can do one state at a time.
Its not electoral reform or state action that we need. Its the DNC. Their policies and positions support the billionaire Problem Class. The Guillotine Party needs to decapitate the billionaire class and their political lapdogs in the Democratic party.
The funny part is that this is an actual centrist position: there is broad bipartisan support for attacking the oligarchs. If the Democrats would actually go after them, the GOP would have to do the same. We would end up with two parties focused on class warfare instead of none.
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills? If the “Tanky Triad” only supported an end to “first-past-the-post” voting, that would be one thing. But when I visit, I’m inundated with propaganda championing fascists who want to ignore reality and bend the population to their will. That’s not liberalism, and it’s certainly not Progressive Politics…
https://beehaw.org/post/19739290 sorry, I originally thought your comment was itt. ^
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills?
Take a look at some older posts from before the election. It was a fucking witchhunt on third-party advocates. Every single one was accused of being a paid russian shill. Every. Single. One. lol
When I am accused of such things, I tend to doxx myself as Yevgeny Prigozhin. Claiming to be a primary source within Wagner has its uses.
I’m not even sure if you’re joking or not, but you do know he’s dead, right?Edit: Nvm, you’re joking.
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Of course. It is a closely guarded Russian secret that I escaped by parachute. The mighty Putin went through great effort to fake my death.
That’s how extreme some Lemmy’s were for sure! lol
some older posts
Do you have some examples? Like I said, all I experienced was disingenuous comments.
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So… Still no sources. Not one…
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Aside from Jill Fucking Stein, I still don’t see evidence that wide swaths of people were advocating against 3rd parties in general. Yeah, there are definitely credible allegations against her, and both Putin and the GOP absolutely took advantage of her spoiler status in the election. Maybe you think she sat at the table with Putin himself without knowledge of him using her?
Yep! Lemmy loves to complain about the Democratic party, but as soon as ya mention third-party, you’re banned from everywhere for being a troll. Or Lemmy’s other fav insults: Nazi and Fascist. They’ll even say we’re paid to talk about third parties.
At this point, Lemmy is getting what they deserve. They’ll lost next presidential election to if they don’t wake the fuck up. :)
Lemmy: The time has come for a new third party! One made up of honest working class people, with infinity time and money between elections to campaign starting now. Oh also you need to go from 0% to 51% in one election cycle or just scrap the whole thing.
So how many election cycles do we give them? Serious question.
Look at the Green Party as a prime example:
1996 - 0.71%
2000 - 2.74%
2004 - 0.10%
2008 - 0.12%
2012 - 0.36%
2016 - 1.07%
2020 - 0.26%
2024 - 0.56%29 years, 8 general elections, 0 electoral college votes. Zero.
To put that in perspective, more electoral college votes have been awarded by ACCIDENT (2004), than have been won total by the Green party in 29 years.
More electoral college votes have been awarded by faithless electors (2016) than have been won by the Green party.
Their best run was with Nader in 2000 and even that did not move the needle.
I can’t imagine why there should be a limit. What happens when we reach it?
Why on earth did he reply to your 5 month old comment? Weird.
If a third party can’t win an election in nearly 30 years, it’s not really an alternative to anything. Time to let it go.
Let it go and do what? The plan that has won over the last 30 years was the fascist one.
You let the Green party go. They can’t get 1% of the vote, haven’t won an election in any state, it’s past time to give up the illusion that they are a real party.
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Primaries are where you fall in love, the General election is where you fall in line unless you want the opposition to win.
The folks I banned here weren’t honestly advocating third party, they were conservatives attempting to split the Democratic vote.
Once the mask came off they were banned. I probably gave them more rope than I should have.
They will end up in camps anyway. At least they will deserve it.
David Perdue not the worst option. Former politician, former CEO of Reebok. At least it’s a businessman and not a Xenophobe, any aggression between the US and China I think will be very squarely not his fault.
It’s not like the guy they voted for is a rare qualified pick from the Trump camp.
It’s David Purdue, a failed pillow company CEO, as well as ceo for other textile companies. More recently he dabbled in politics as a Republican senator from Georgia, failed gubernatorial candidate, 2020 election denier, climate change denier, and generally an idiotic sycophant.
The textile experience gives him a small amount of plausibility as a choice, but everything else far outweighs that. Just another loser grifter in Trump’s orbit.God damn, how many more failed pillow company execs does he have left?
I was wondering same!
Maybe it’s something to do with hotels…?
