All I’m saying is according to English grammatical rules it’s a perfectly valid method of referring to a singular person when gender is unknown.
Now according to societal politeness rules on the other hand, it’s rude as fuck.
It’s not rude, it’s dehumanizing. Slightly worse, right?
Unless it identifies as another species, then it’s still dehumanizing but also affirming I guess.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I read this in JarJar’s voice
Don’t say that word!
Lmao I was thinking that you mean they and was so fucking confused for a while thinking how rude I’ve been for YEARS.
I would say that, given that it’s never ok, it is part of English grammartical rules. In German they actually use two different words for when a human eats or when an animal eats, it’s not unprecedented and there’s no need to lend any credibility to the usage of the word “it”.
There is a single precedent I can think of, which is that with some regularity I see infants/newborns referred to as “it”.
A mindset from the before (antibiotics) times. Babies used to die quite frequently. So much that in some cultures babies weren’t named until later in their life, not during pregnancy as it’s custom today. So they were kind of an out there thing, that wasn’t baptized and named yet, they were an it. They were “the baby”. No different than a dog or a turtle, they might die without a name, given an unmarked burial. And off to the next pregnancy. Still a tragedy, and people did mourn and suffered the loss. But not to the same degree of modern, western medicalized, pregnancies were almost every single baby born is expected to at least survive to infancy.
“Can you tell if that’s a man or a woman over there?” “It’s a man.”
My point was merely to show the difference between what is grammatically ok vs what is societally ok.
In time, I imagine English grammar will continue to change with the language and it will take on a definition that indicates something nonsentient.
according to English grammatical rules it’s a perfectly valid method of referring to a singular person
show me ONE fucking example prior to 2000 of people using “it” for persons without it being dehumanizing
singular “they” has fulfilled this function for at least 500 years. “it” has never been a pronoun for humans, until it recently saw use as a neo-pronoun.
there is no grammar rulebook. grammar is usage. you are claiming that it’s been used like that. you’re wrong.
You’re more than welcome to go back in time and inform my 10th grade teacher of this. Lemme know how that works out for you.
oh shit nvm didn’t realize your tenth grade English teacher said otherwise mb
In all fairness, they read out the part of the textbook that went over it. This was also the same paragraph that explained they can be used as well as the difference between you singular and the royal you.
That being said I’m sure we were both sarcastic in our prior responses but I’m attempting to show that I’m not pulling this out of my ass and I’m relying on a source of truth.
I default to whatever the traditional apparent gender would be assumed I.E. you look like traditional woman/man I refer to you as such. Then I allow myself to be corrected if it’s inaccurate.
The intent isn’t offensive and I’m not going to ask each individual what pronouns are preferred but will respect whatever I’m informed is correct in each instance. I think it’s being made into a mountain when it’s really just a mole hill. You can’t expect every human to automatically be correct or informed or even default to a neutral when it is not yet the norm.
It seems too trivial to be butthurt over if it isn’t malicious, especially upon first interaction. Let the person know, then if ignored or dismissed it can be considered offensive.
I don’t get upset when people call my Bugles potato chips, they are little crunchy cones of heaven
I started using they after 2 years accidentally misgendering a colleague from another country because it looked like she had a beard in Teams profile picture
That sounds reallllly rough haha, hopefully it was taken with more humor than insult. I just go with ye ol “assume ignorance or mistake over malice” anytime an interaction like that happens. Majoritively it is one of the former and there was never an issue to begin with. Sorta like getting some fused Bugles, I doubt the company intended to send it to me, just a simple double delicious mistake
Yeah as a pretty genderfucky person, people pretty commonly misgender me, and most of the time it’s no big deal. It gets pretty easy to tell when it’s intentional and when it isn’t. As long as people are empathetic and doing their best, it’s never a problem personally.
That being said, many people outside gender norms have sustained a lot of pain over their identity, oftentimes by using pronouns intentionally to out us or otherwise belittle us. The brain maladapts, especially in more serious cases of abuse, and the limbic system takes over to keep us safe - a distinctive characteristic of PTSD. It’s taken a long time (still ongoing) for me to heal from that, and lots of queer folks are still too close to active abuse to even begin the process. Any grace that one can lend people in these moments can be monumental in their healing process.
(editing to say: lmao love me some bugles too)
This is a reasonable solution to continued mistakes.
I understand not wanting to ask everyone all the time, but defaulting to a neutral pronoun isn’t going to become the norm unless people start using it even when it isn’t the norm. That said, it does feel a lot less natural in Ukrainian and Russian to me, so I’m still trying to figure out the best option there. But in English, singular “they” is pretty widespread already, I think.
I don’t think singular “they” is that common except among very young people, and does lead to confusion.
As an example, my brother once showed me a picture of a person on a dating app and said “they are nice” and I thought he was talking about the person’s breasts…
Also, “it” is dehumanising, I’d feel uncomfortable calling someone “it” even if they told me it was their preferred pronoun.
Singular they has existed in English before the times of Shakespeare. It’s not a fad. It’s a bloody grammatical reality.
Singular they has also always been used when the person is unidentified. “Somebody left their umbrella here!” It’s when the person is identified that it feels awkward at first for us Gen Xers and older in particular.
Context matters. Sometimes it’s confusing!
“They” is pretty widespread but I agree about the “it” part.
That’s what I do Im autistic and struggle with names already and tbh folks that have pronouns that differ from what they look like just fry my brain as that’s another bit of Data I have to remember especially when there are multiple people like that
I’m very much the same way. Using everyone’s pronouns perfectly, especially among people I don’t know well, is a challenge. But all that’s been required to get along with queer folks has just been a best effort and willingness to be corrected and move on.
Y’all.
Could you give this drink to the person of unknown gender over there? Y’all seems to have finished y’all’s previous drink and we want to keep everyone happy!
G’huck
I’m 100% down for normalizing ‘it’
I see you have an MBA.
Feels a bit icky to me, but I know a bunch of people who prefer it
Gendered pronouns in most sentences are a waste and often lead to a false ascertainment. While I don’t use ‘it’ for everyone, I would love to get used to it.
This is why the universal language should be Indonesian. No gendered words, no pronouns, heck there’s even no tenses. By the way, you also pronounce the words the way it was written like Latin so there’s no confusion on how to pronounce the words. The grammar is also straightforward enough you can just grab a dictionary and start speaking coherent Indonesian.
After trying to learn Portuguese this sounds like heaven.
While I don’t care about the gender crap (use what ever), I appreciate having a different pronoun for people or conscious things vs objects of any kind. They/them still holds info over it/that.
I admit I am a poisoned well, though. I was taught ‘it’ is outright disrespectful. Even before I knew LGBTQ+ anything, so it implicitly doesn’t apply to people, IMO.
Roses are red,
violets are blue.
Singular they
predates singular you.
Serial killers refer to people as “it” already. They are the trend setters!
deleted by creator
I isn’t gendered already…
Refer to people as “it” if you want to sound like a serial killer. “It puts the lotion on its skin…”
But what if you just want to know what it’s got in its filthy pocketses, precious?
Dwight D. Schrute: Perhaps y’all should just learn Finnish. No gender pronouns.
I suddenly want to move to Sweden. Or just anywhere we don’t need to have arguments about minor language aspects constantly.
Sweden’s primary language is Swedish, which does have gendered pronouns.
they have hen
which nobody uses
Just 90 ways to say “with”
Wiz wit is non-optional in Finland, but there are 90 different ways to have wiz wit it.
Nice.
Then you have the Japanese that just refer to everyone by name and only use pronouns when you don’t know the person’s name
When a baby is born they say “its a boy” for example.
Or at any age if the gender is being revealed. “Is that a man or a woman?” “It’s a man.”
“Ecce homo!”
Learn turkish. We only have one pronoun (two if you count the plural). Also, no gender in job titles (or anything else).
Or most Austronesian languages
My vote is with for them/they.
i vote for “it” makes it unified for everything, ties it neatly up.
It/that.
What about “that” or even “that thing” when you want to be fancy.
My pronouns are that/it.
Jokes aside, they/them is fucking convinient and I use it all the time in english, I wish German had a equivalent!
Me with a bad case of dwarf brain where everyone is he/him unless obvious or told otherwise
I just use the humanoids name for everything. Go ask Bob over there. It’s Bob’s turn. I didn’t do it, Bob did it. And then Bob said let there be light.
Probably should replace I with your name for consistency. “Dan is not liking Ken’s attitude”
so you just don’t use pronouns
sound like the dudes getting mad at their xbox
