Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote ‘uncommitted’ in Michigan’s primary on Tuesday
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
“It’s important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote that’s not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,” she said on Sunday during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union. “A second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.”
Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Biden’s 2024 campaign, also said she wasn’t sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.
Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote “uncommitted” in Michigan’s 27 February primary.
Alternate title: Michigan governor explains first past the post voting. People unhappy.
This is a primary. Voting for Biden won’t make it less likely that Trump will be elected.
So they’re not even the official candidates yet? Just how long is your election cycle?
4 years.
Primaries are rigged there’s no real choice
That’s not really true. Primaries weren’t rigged in the Rupublican primaries in 2016. They voted Trump in despite what the RNC wanted. It was the Dem’s primary that was rigged (and turned a bunch of people off of voting in the main election, and it seems those people still haven’t learned anything).
How were the Dem primaries rigged. I still see lots of people claim this to this day. But no one has ever presented evidence. I voted for Sanders in 2016 and 2020 primaries. But legitimately more people voted for Clinton in 2016. She also won more delegates. She won fair and square. Now do I think there needs to be a better process? Absolutely. But in the system democrats have used for the last 30 to 40 years Sanders lost fairly despite a strong showing.
The superdelegates, which in 2016 made up about 15% of the delegates, were not elected and are not beholden to any voters, they just chose whichever candidate they wanted, and 604 out of 651 went for Clinton immediately, which meant Bernie started off at an immediate disadvantage.
There’s this idea that if it’s technically possible to succeed, that the system is not rigged (see racism, sexism, etc). But that’s ridiculous. If someone starts off at a major advantage over their competition, the system is rigged for them. If, in the general election, one candidate started off with 75 electoral votes because some unelected people just decided they liked that candidate, I imagine we would call that system rigged in favor of that candidate (even if it is technically possible for their opponent to win). Not only that, but starting off at such a deficit for what would already have been considered a close race is likely to make those who might have voted for Bernie just not bother showing up.
So yes, I’d say the primary was rigged against Bernie. And the Democrats seem to agree, because they got rid of superdelegates for the initial vote, because everyone was pissed.
The DNC used that system FOR DECADES. They didn’t implement it in 2015 to snub Sanders. And as shitty as it was. It was better than what they had before. This, this is why no one rightfully takes you seriously. Or shows any respect. Hyperbolic, disingenuous BS.
You’re apparently forgetting the head of the DNC that got fired for giving debate questions to Clinton.
You’re also apparently forgetting the DNC argument in court that because they are a private organization that they didn’t have to abide by their own rules requiring fairness.
None of those are even touching the super delegate issues that others commented on.
So, The DNC gave Clinton the questions. And then they fired the head as a patsy? Or the head gave Clinton the questions and the DNC who didn’t rig things fired her over it.
Depends what you mean by “rigged”.
The parties, the candidates, the PACs, and the media are all theoretically (and in many cases, legally bound to be) separate entities, acting independently. But in reality, a lot of them share the same interests, and so some things happen that aren’t exactly collusion or breaking any rules, but do give an advantage to one candidate, which many voters consider unfair.
In the case of the 2016 DNC primary, I think the critical objection is not the existence of superdelegates, but how they were presented in the media.
Clinton hovered between 54%-59% of the pledged delegates, but the media coverage would consistently include superdelegates in the count, showing Clinton ahead by 600 or so delegates, giving her “70% of the total count, and making her the presumptive nominee! The Sanders campaign doesn’t have any chance of coming back from this!” …before most of the country had even voted.
This kind of thing happens all the time, with lots of stuff, and it’s not technically “rigging”.
But seeing an official-looking number on TV – that you know, provably, doesn’t reflect the reality of the ongoing election… That feels, to many people, like it’s “rigged”.
I mean rigged when I say rigged. But yes I agree with a lot of your other points. The system absolutely should be more democratic and clearer. And our media should absolutely be constantly rebuked for the shit show it is.
I have no love for the system or democrats. But I really think all this talk about it being “rigged” nearly a decade on. Realistically is keeping us from improving the situation or finding better solutions. Instead grinding some perceived axe. While people, we all would likely be United against are United themselves getting things that we hate done. Clinton and Wasserman Schultz definitely earned plenty of that ire though.
Everyone says they didnt want him, but an idiot demagogue is a useful fool.
Altrrnate theory: They didnt know who would beat Hillary, so they played as many candidates as possible until they figured it out.
That’s some nice history rewriting but the RNC actually openly loathed Trump until he won the primary - that’s when they became bootlickers.
Ah yeah, politicians never lie
Please explain to me, in detail, how the '16 Dem primaries were rigged. Bernie was literally on every single ballot, right alongside Hillary.
I responded in detail to the comment before yours (you and I posted within a minute of each other), but in a word, superdelegates.
Yea, neither Biden nor Trump have the official party endorsement yet. Presidential elections in the US usually last between two and five years depending on how you define them.
The news starts talking about the next election the day after the election so our election cycle is permanent at this point.
General election is in November. Get comfortable, it’s gonna be a while.
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Neoliberals never let a silly thing like facts get in their way.
They’re just republicans who don’t want the cool kids to hate them.
The fucked up part is theyre the only other option this election, and they know it.
It’s not good enough for them that Biden is better than trump, they want 100% support for all the fucked up shit Biden is doing as well.
they want 100% support for all the fucked up shit Biden is doing as well
Who are you even talking about?
Israel’s Genocide that is only possible because of our unwavering political and military support, probably
And they yell at us for not putting up with their putrid shit. Whatever happened to “push Biden left”
You have? Like, it’s been a clear influence in the policies of his administration. I’m my opinion, it would be pretty short sighted to turn that influence into disdain.
Israel’s extermination of Gazans with our unwavering funding is not a “left” policy
And wouldn’t you know it, there’s a lot more to an administration than their stance on Israel. Stop trying to boil everything down to truisms and catchphrases. If you really don’t think that the left has had a sizeable impact on Biden’s admin, we don’t really have a lot to talk about here.
The left has had a sizeable impact on Biden’s domestic policies. Including the Inflation Reduction Act, American Rescue Plan, and the Bipartisan infrastructure Law.
The Biden administration has been funding and arming the Israeli genocide of Gaza
Both are true. And genocide is the worst thing a country can do. I learned that in 6th grade when we learned about the importance of ensuring “Never Again” re: the Holocaust
Biden supports genocide. Centrists happy.
It’s a fucking primary.
This is literally the only point in time we can try to drag Biden too the left, will we get him far enough that he stops being pro-genocide? Probably not, dude is all in on Israel and always has been.
But telling people they don’t even get to vote “not committed” in a fucking meaningless primary is something so undemocratic if you told me it would happen this primary I’d have bet millions on it being republicans.
But then again, I’d have bet billions on them being the ones to pull delegates for something the state party had zero control over.
Not holding Dems to standards may have already fucked the country for good.
It’s a fucking primary
I don’t know why people don’t get this.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
I don’t have enough clothespins for this bullshit.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
NH went progressive over party favorite moderate the last two primaries they had that counted…
So this party the DNC said their votes count for nothing, then Biden withdrew and threw money at a write in campaign so the headlines would be “Biden wins even as a write in!”
And not:
“DNC just made NH primary meaningless for something only NH republican officials could change!”
They know this is just a primary.
They’re just conservatives deep down and give zero fucks lying and destroying democracy if they win. And it’s not enough to win, they demand 100% loyalty.
Just like trumpers.
It’s why Dem standards can’t just be “better than a Republican”.
it’s why the democratic party is going to fracture.
Hopely only slightly after the republican party. But both are trying to be the last one standing, so to speak.
The problem is Progressives aren’t offering up any other option. Who am I supposed to vote FOR this time around? “No one” isn’t much of a rallying cry.
Why should they? the DNC will never allow a progressive to be the party candidate. which is why we didn’t have bernie in '16… like the VOTERS WANTED.
I would say 2020 was the real stinger… clyburn in south carolina playing king maker.
New Hampshire went for Sanders in 2020, and were punished by losing their primary representation in 2024. South Carolina proved pivotal to the Biden campaign, so they’re rewarded by going first.
Yuuuup. There were plenty of better states to choose if they just wanted a less-white state. Georgia is diverse and actually in play, but instead we kick off with a state that’s deep red with an ineffectual Democratic party because they voted the way the winners liked.
Because in 2020 the progressive candidate was the front runner. 4 years later they have no one else to offer up? No wants to vote for Biden. This is the progressive caucus’s moment, and they’re failing to respond to what the voters want.
The progressive caucus fell apart the last couple years. Even Fetterman has started towing the line.
Then to be quite honest that’s something progressives need to focus on and work through if they want to be taken seriously going forward. Railing against Biden will only get them so far. At the end of the day, voters need something to be in favor of, to rally behind.
Agree completely, which is why I hope more progressives keep running for local offices
Progressivism is a marble on a hill. Either they roll to the right and join the liberals because they support and believe in an unjust hierarchical system as long as it’s sufficiently pinkwashed or roll hard left because they see the issue is the system itself
The hill ima die on: sortition
If progressives had put someone up against an incumbent they would have been accused of wanting Trump to win.
Also, their candidate would be deemed unelectable and voting for them in the primary would be helping Trump to win.
Also, America is not a progressive country and even if they won the nomination they’d probably lose.
Why? Because America wants this shitshow. Why else would they keep choosing it? They don’t want problems solved, they want arguments and hot takes and “slams” and “bashes.”
There are great progressive candidates running. You just don’t see it because the DNC is hard at work behind the scenes canceling primaries, removing candidates from the ballot, instructing the corporate media to not report on it, and sending out people like Whitmer to manufacture consent for there being no actual primary debates or competition.
Biden’s ego demands a second term, there’s no voter choice involved here.
If the voters wanted Bernie in '16, they could have gotten off of their collective asses and voted for him. He was on every single state ballot. The fact is, more voters voted for Hillary.
I cannot remember an election where the incumbent got primaried. And even if we tried we’d be accused of hurting the establishment candidate’s chances in the general.
The Dem olds in Congress were not happy to see AOC stomp on Crowley (10 term incumbent) back in '18 (I think).
You have to know that’s not comparable to a presidential election
And that’s why they pulled out all the stops to block Cisneros and support anti-choice NRA stooge Cuellar.
Eric Cantor but that’s not exactly a 1:1 comparison.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
“Behave, or else you get the Orange Turd.” seems to be the message.
There’s nothing in this article that indicates she’s talking about the primary vs the general election
True. Which is just bad reporting
Who is on the ballot that drives him left exactly? What’s the name?
Is someone telling you you don’t “get” to vote how you want? Telling someone you disagree with their choice or that they’re dumb for voting a certain way is not at all stopping that person from voting how they want and not at all undemocratic
I’m not trying to defend the “pro genocide” thing at all, although I’m expecting to be down voted regardless, but…
Isn’t support for Israel over Gaza an American / western thing rather than specifically Biden?
Like is it reasonably possible to have a POTUS that wouldn’t support Israel?
I guess they could be more overt in their condemnation of Israel’s behaviour, but I’m not sure how meaningful that is.
Isn’t support for Israel over Gaza an American / western thing rather than specifically Biden?
Biden has spent 50 years calling himself a Zionist and saying nothing will ever make him stop supporting Israel.
It’s hard to think anyone believes that’s normal…
Like is it reasonably possible to have a POTUS that wouldn’t support Israel?
Bernie and every other progressive.
I think part of the problem is that people are so on edge with how close we are to democracy ending. And how fine, and even eager many are to move on to full fascism. It is a primary though. And what really matters is a commitment to defeat fascism in November.
However you don’t do yourself any favors acting like a teenage edge lord. Saying hyperbolic bs like pro-genocide etc etc etc. Biden’s actions on the front are absolutely questionable. Poor strategy wise considering Bibi isn’t going to listen to anyone. And just going to do whatever he wants. So all Biden is likely going to get out of it is a tarnished image. Even if we cut Israel off completely, something Biden can’t do himself. It wouldn’t stop Bibi the butcher. But then it’s always easier to call hyperbolic names than it is to come up with actual working solutions.
you’re pro genocide
No u.
you clearly have a pro-trump agenda, as evidenced by your comment history…
you’re spam, and pro-genocideYou’ve completely lost the thread.
ok, tropical ding dong
Trump, the one who moved the US embassy would, if anything, support Israel even more aggressively than Biden.
It’s so infuriating how difficult it is for people to understand this
There are also a large amount of people who understand this and are intentionally acting as if they don’t. This is just this round’s version of the ‘walk away’ people from previous elections.
Walk away is such a shitty psyop. I feel bad for anyone stupid enough to fall for the obvious bullshit.
Some people love genocide so much they cannot imagine anyone opposing it without ulterior motives.
Some people love to argue in bad faith.
Is there a good faith argument that can be made in favor of supporting genocide?
No one is supporting genocide. Hence why Oderus implied you were arguing in bad faith. Quit now before you make an ass of yourself.
“Opposition to genocide isn’t real”, is pretty close to supporting it.
A young man just lit himself on fire to protest our complicity in the genocide, this isn’t a made up issue. The people up in arms in my social feeds aren’t faceless Russians, they the people who would work past campaigns and donate to Democrats.
Biden circumvented congress to sell weapons to Netanyahu for genocide. That’s support for genocide.
You can’t justify support for genocide, and I doubt you want Biden to stop doing so. So let’s see which Standard Centrist Dismissal you select instead.
Just like @dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com said, no one is arguing for genocide so you’re not arguing in good faith. Imagine being so blind and you think Trump and Biden are the same. Unreal how reductive some people are.
If it were possible, you would be ashamed of your comment but here you are.
Imagine being so blind and you think Trump and Biden are the same.
I didn’t say that either. Biden should stop supporting genocide.
Democrats should not be supporting genocide. Regardless of how much worse the alternative is.
The alternative appears to be that same genocide plus an authoritarian state run by a corrupt egoistist BTW. Voting for a party is and never has been a vote to support literally every policy they stand on.
I wasn’t advocating for not voting for Biden; I was advocating for Biden to cease his support for Netanyahu’s genocide.
When you make statements like
Democrats should not be supporting genocide. Regardless of how much worse the alternative is
You need to understand that the alternative is Trump. Stop creating bullshit noise and get on the same page as everyone else.
You need to understand that the alternative is Trump.
“But they’re worse” does not justify supporting genocide. Nothing justifies supporting genocide. Biden should stop.
The alternative is Biden not supporting genocide, and if it takes threats to not vote for him to do it, that’s well worth it. You act like everything is baked into stone and none of these current actions could have a material impact on the people that are right now dying.
Most would agree, but putting a worse person in power through apathy or inaction isn’t the solution.
I’m not advocating for voting for Trump or not voting.
Democrats should not be supporting genocide.
WOW THANKS FOR THE TIP
I’ll stop saying it if they ever stop doing it.
Shame Dems won’t take it
And what does that look like to you this election cycle?
Stop the bullshit double speak, half truth skirting around the conversation and say, flat out and in plain English, how do you propose we handle this situation as a voter? Give us an actual solution.
We should continue the protests until Biden stops supporting genocide.
We should vote for Biden and not Trump. Democrats should not support genocide. The two aren’t contradictory.
Stop the bullshit double speak
“Democrats should not support genocide” is a simple, direct statement.
Your point is received. It’s a shitty point, but please, you keep trying to elaborate but you just keep repeating the same useless point.
There isn’t one, unless we can somehow replace key centre-right policymakers inside the Democrat party and drag the party to a more firmly progressive platform
Yep, so vote Bernie in the primaries, then when he loses the primary and the election is Biden vs Trump vote Biden.
It sucks that our election system has been warped into a two party shitshow, but here we are.
Our ecosystem will not survive a Trump term. That means our food supply will not survive a Trump term. We do not want a neverending dust bowl.
Additionally of you really think Trump will do anything for peace you haven’t been listening to his words or looked at his actions.
I said Democrats should not support genocide. I did not say people should not vote for Biden. I did not say people should vote for Trump.
I said that Democrats should not be supporting genocide. Biden should stop and you should too.
Why I started with, “Yep”. Another word for yes.
Then don’t accuse me of being a trumpist because I don’t think that Democrats should be supporting genocide.
You think Trump, the guy who makes transparent threats of violence every other sentence, would stop Israel from levelling Gaza?
I think Democrats should stop supporting genocide. They should vote for Biden and not Trump.
Biden should stop supporting genocide, and pro-genocide centrists should stop assuming that opposition to genocide is support for Trump. Or at least scroll down and see if others haven’t spammed identical genocide apologia.
He’s good friends with and likely has donations from Netanyahu. And all Trump and the GOP have to do (as usual) is sit back and watch the left fight and destroy itself while the gop sit back and win.
Democrats are so damn stupid. Not a single one of your candidates and potential presidents is against Israel, none, so why make it an issue for this election?
Because I’m guessing the hope is that Biden will see the threats to not vote and change his tact in order to keep his job.
Talk about blowing off your own foot cause your toe hurts.
Russian propaganda.
Idiot
? The reason it’s being pushed is Russian propaganda.
Primaries are the place for protest votes. You want to send a message, send it now in the primary.
Come general election, it’s time to shut up and protect the country.
Not just a second Trump term, but a second Trump term and continuation/acceleration of the genocide in Gaza. Not voting and letting Trump win with a razor thin margin in a swing state will not fix the problem. Between the two realistic choices, Biden is infinitely more likely to push Israel for a ceasefire, which is the best chance anybody has to get the situation under control.
I don’t like our current system but I don’t believe she is wrong. We have a two party system. Either the GOP or the DNC candidate will take the electoral college.
I hate that we are still voting against something. The Democrats need to run a candidate that we WANT to vote for (like Obama was imo) but we aren’t there in this election so we can either protest and vote 3rd party, vote for Trump, or vote for Biden.
Voting uncommitted is a fine thing to do during the primary. It shows the party that people are displeased with how the government is handling the Gaza situation.
Sitting out an election in Michigan is a bad idea. If you’re in a safe state, go wild. Just not Michigan.
I mean she’s right. If you register a protest vote against Biden you need to accept the moral liability of helping Trump. There really isn’t any additional conversation here. You can write a million words about how you are making the perfect the enemy of the good, and none of it will change the very simple cause and effect of a protest vote.
Maybe vote uncommitted in primary for pressure since that has literally no effect on the main election?
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Yeah but the statement Biden supporting Israel supports second trump term is true as well and anyone with half a brain would see it as obvious. Who do you think is more vested in winning the election?
No, Trump will win if not enough people vote for his only opponent that stands a chance. If that’s you not voting for Biden - for any reason - you’re to blame.
“Elephant shit more than bears shit.” Is technically true. But you’re still talking about shit.
We have a right- and indeed an obligation- to call out our president’s bullshit. Just because one hypothetical is worse than another, doesn’t mean that Biden and most the rest of the DNC supoorting genocide is okay.
“Well it could be worse” is a cop out.
This isn’t a hypothetical, this is the real fucking world. Biden will be President again, or Trump will be. If you do anything besides vote for Biden, you’re helping Trump, period. (In the general election that is, do whatever you want in the primary.)
1- you don’t know who will win. You don’t even know if they’ll live long enough to win. This isn’t entirely an age thing- there’s enough assholes who absolutely would pull the trigger here. (And I’m not even sure assassinating Trump is immoral. That’s how fucked yo this all is.
Either presidency is still a hypothetical. Period.
2- TRUMP BEING WORSE DOES NOT JUSTIFY SUPPORTING GENOCIDE.
Seriously. When people protest biden’s (and most every other politician’s) support of genocide… it isn’t about the election. ITS ABOUT THE GENOCIDE.
Stop making excuses. You’re defending genocide. You’re complicit in genocide.
No, this is not hypothetical. Either Biden will win, or Trump will. You can protest and throw all the tantrums you like, that’s what the primary is for.
Come November, if you don’t vote for Biden, you’re as guilty as the most ardent MAGA supporter in letting fascism take power.
Incorrect.
The purpose of a primary is meant to select the best candidate possible.
We can argue if a guy whose consistently thrown unconditional support to a genocidal regime is in fact that, but the primary is not to “throw tantrums”
And yes, I am pissed that my govenement is currently sending money and weapons to a genocidal regime. I am more than pissed. I expect better of my govnerment.
But being incensed at genocide… isn’t a tantrum.
Can… you do me a favor? Can you just agree that genocide is bad? Or is that too much?
Whatever you want to call it, you go act out in the primary all you like, vote for Barney the dinosaur for all I care. But when it comes to November, you put on your big kid pants, suck it up, and vote for Biden, otherwise you’re as guilty as any other MAGA fanatic.
So….
We can’t agree that genocide is bad?
Hey bud, how about you not scream at someone for something they didn’t say? Making up strawmen and screaming at them isn’t going to convince anyone youre worth listening to, let alone convince them to actually to listen to anything you have to say.
strawmen
There’s a lot of that going around. A lot of us are justifiably pissed off at the Biden admin for funneling our tax dollars into a genocide… but calling that out is just being met with a wave of “if you don’t vote Biden, you’re supporting Trump, which is even worse!” which… no shit? We can be pissed off at Biden and simultaneously still willing to vote for him over Orange Hitler Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Then pick someone who says something like that to argue with. The person above is just screaming at someone because of something that no one in this thread said.
Hey bud.
How about you actually read what said, instead of repeating those “Biden Good” macros you think are persuasive.
The problem here is that you seem to think any criticism of Biden is unwarranted because he is not as bad as Trump hypothetically will be.
And yes. At this point in time, it is hypothetical. Nobody here can predict whether or not Trump will win. Or if Biden will win.
Which is all entirely beside the point that people are protesting our current government - not our possible future government’s support of something most of us find objectionable.
Saying “don’t protest genocide because Trump will be worse” is a lazy excuse; and fundamentally defending genocide.
Do you support genocide? Do you think what’s happening in Gaza is good?
Do you think Palestinians should be eradicated as a culture and a people?
Because that, right here, right now, is what you are supporting.
Why do you support female genital mutilation? Huh how come you’re not responding? Is it because you love mutilating children’s genitals that much? Why do you just love to torture children and maim them for life?
Oh hey look, it’s not fun to argue with someone who argued against things you didn’t say.
Reread the part where i said not to put words in people’s mouths and try again asshole.
That’s amusing.
Yes I’m apposed to genital mutilation. It’s easy to say.
You’re the one trying to make this about some thing it’s not. People are protesting our current government’s policy towards Israel. That is to say, they’re protesting our current government’s support of genocide.
This has nothing at all to do with the upcoming election; and telling people to shut up about it, or Trump might win (or implying it) is a good sign that maybe people find the current policy deeply unpopular.
And yes, what you are doing is in fact defending genocide. So which of us is an asshole here?
As an outsider looking in, it feels really odd that this could even be a firm issue for any voter. Like that high horse sailed so long ago, how can you possibly blame the current president for what has been a national policy for 75 years?
Sure, push for a candidate that doesn’t support Israel and dissent as much as you can. But every time I read a comment about “Genocide Joe” it screams Russian propaganda farm.
Gonna cut her some slack since the last time trump was president his sycophants almost kidnapped and executed her.
Voting for Biden cause he’s least worst fucking sucks. Dems need to do better, and Trump is what happens because they won’t.
Trying to get a progressive agenda by only thinking about the Presidency is like trying to win a game with only hail Marys. We need to focus on smaller races in house and build up from there. It would be a stronger and longer lasting change. Even if you’re in an area that doesn’t have any competitive progressives running in the primary, you are allowed to volunteer to help progressive candidates in areas that do.
Americans need to demand a preferential voting system
