Now I understand why at each windows 11 update, they introduce more bugs than ever

  • scarabic@lemmy.world
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    27 days ago

    If they mean “30% of the code we wrote last month” then I might believe it. Though I bet it is not across the board but deep in one or two areas. Still, it’s a crazy number.

    But he said something like “30% of the code in our repositories” which would mean everything, including their entire legacy of code. And that I simply do not believe.

    • Womble@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Its a shit article with Tech crunch changing the words to get people in a flap about AI (for or against), the actual quote is

      “I’d say maybe 20 percent, 30 percent of the code that is inside of our repos today and some of our projects are probably all written by software”

      “Written by software” reasonably included machine refactored code, automatically generated boilerplate and things generated by AI assistants. Through that lens 20% doesnt seem crazy.

      • MangoCats@feddit.it
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        27 days ago

        I’ve been “automatically writing code” for a system of about a dozen modules - we specify a glue file in .json between all the modules and the code generating software makes units to go in each module to do the communication interfacing based on the glue spec. That system has been running for more than 10 years now, it writes a couple hundred thousand lines of “new code” every time we modify the glue file.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      27 days ago

      It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they entered the entire codebase for Windows 11 into an LLM and asked it to optimize it or some shit lol

    • degen@midwest.social
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      27 days ago

      Of course it’s just bad writing, but I kind of wouldn’t put it past management to try shoving their multitude of codebases through an LLM at this point.

    • MangoCats@feddit.it
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      27 days ago

      My first thought on reading that is: yeah, like about 98% of the human genome is “junk DNA” that we have little or no idea what it might be doing. Sometimes when we cut it out, nobody ever notices, sometimes when we cut it out the system won’t boot up.

  • WhatSay@slrpnk.net
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    28 days ago

    So the CEO is trying to tell investors that they are saving money by not paying employees. But to me it sounds more like: we are letting our sub-par products continue to enshitify, and any other company using AI to program will be equal competition.

      • WhatSay@slrpnk.net
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        28 days ago

        Windows 11 was much much shittier, idk about the rest of their products, I haven’t used them.

        And I switched over to steamOS, so I won’t be using any of their products again.

          • BrowseMan@sh.itjust.works
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            27 days ago

            Enshittification, also known as crapification and platform decay, is a pattern in which online products and services decline in quality over time. Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers, and finally degrade their services to users and business customers to maximize profits for shareholders.

            Yes, we are in the third phase: service to user is free diving in order to increase money to M$ shareholders?

          • dai@lemmy.world
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            27 days ago

            Man, chill. Break the word down.

            En - Into / Become Shit - Da poo poo Fication - The process of becoming

      • killingspark@feddit.org
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        27 days ago

        Have you not noticed that the Windows search has become a meme for being really useful in windows seven and useless in newer versions because it started

        1. Searching the web and asking an ai for answers without you wanting that
        2. In consequence syphoning out each and every search promt
        3. Displaying fucking ads in the fucking search results

        And that’s just one example that’s obvious enough to become a meme

        BTW: any form of making a Microsoft product worse for profit of Microsoft is enshittification since they have both endusers and sellers of products that only work on windows/in the Microsoft ecosystem locked in with significant costs tied to leaving.

    • normalexit@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      I think he’s trying to say that their AI writes code good enough for Microsoft. Which is a message to other business leaders that your company too can benefit from copilot, just hand over your credit card!

      Microsoft has absolutely gotten worse in the consumer space, but that isn’t really their business these days.

  • megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    28 days ago

    I bet they’re counting code written while someone had an AI plugin installed as “written by AI” and I bet that accounts for almost all of that 30%. On top of that, I’m betting that they made it mandatory to have such a plug in, and the other 70% is just code written before they mandated this.

    • SandmanXC@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      Also, having 1/3 lines with obvious code that can be auto suggested correctly would make sense, but that is hardly code “written by ai” in the way they suggest.

      • Nighed@feddit.uk
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        28 days ago

        Those are the easy time savings though, the safe easy stuff the developer doesn’t have to worry about anymore. (Giving them time do the gnarly stuff)

        • taladar@sh.itjust.works
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          28 days ago

          It is exactly the opposite, with simple, predictable auto-complete you didn’t have to worry about that anymore, with LLMs you always have to look at it in detail because every little thing could be just plain completely different and wrong.

          • Nighed@feddit.uk
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            28 days ago

            I can read way faster than I can type though. You still check it, but it’s pretty good as that kind of stuff once you have an example for it to follow.

            • taladar@sh.itjust.works
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              28 days ago

              Reading code is usually orders of magnitude slower than writing code. Sure, typing might be slower than reading but to check if it is what you intended you have to understand it too.

              • mbtrhcs@feddit.org
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                28 days ago

                Well, I’m generally very anti-LLM but as a library author in Java it has been very helpful to create lots of similar overloads/methods for different types and filling in the corresponding documentation comments. I’ve already done all the thinking and I just need to check that the overload makes the right call or does the same thing that the other ones do – in that particular case, it’s faster. But if I myself don’t know yet how I’m going to do something, I would never trust an AI to tell me.

      • megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        28 days ago

        I’d guess a lot of the people writing the code don’t even have it turned on, it’s just installed because management said it had to be, because management wants to be able to tell investors they’re “innovating work flows”.

        • Balder@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          I am a small sample to confirm that’s exactly the reason in my brother’s company.

          And in my company we’re pressured to make X prompts every week to the company’s own ChatGPT wrapper to show we’re being productive. Even our profit shares have a KPO attached to that now. So many people just type “Hello there” every morning to count as another interaction with the AI.

        • bluGill@fedia.io
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          28 days ago

          Every few months I turn it on for a few days just to see if it is better.

          Then I go back to the old AST based autocomplete that actually knows something useful about my code.

    • taladar@sh.itjust.works
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      28 days ago

      I would be very surprised if 30% of their code lines had even been touched at all by anyone since AI coding assistants became a thing.

      • megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        28 days ago

        I could see stuff getting small changes and them claiming that the entirety of the new version is “written by AI”.

      • tal@lemmy.today
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        28 days ago

        I wish this shot from The Terminator had the camera showing Sarah Conner’s face instead of Reese’s, because it’d be such an appropriate meme image on multiple levels for when someone makes a misleading claim about some current AI system.

  • krimson@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    Horseshit.

    The current state of code generated by AI is sketchy at best. I often get plain wrong answers because the model tries to derive. It comes up with calls to functions and properties that just do not exist.

    “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

    Apart from that, apps that are glued together from AI generated code are not maintainable at all. What if there is a bug somewhere and you so not comprehend what is actually happening? Ask AI to fix it? Yeah good luck with that.

    I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.

    • unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml
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      28 days ago

      “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

      To be fair, the AI’s not wrong. It’s probably better, but just a teeny tiny bit so.

      Honestly, AI is like a genie - whatever you come up with he’ll just butcher and misinterpret so you start questioning both your own sanity and the semantics of language. Good thing these genies have no wish limit, but bad thing that they murder rainforests while generating their non-sequitur replies.

    • spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      28 days ago

      “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers

      The exact same wrong answer. Co-Pilot is especially bad for that. I’m practically giving up using it outside of vs code because the actual copilot AI is dog shit stupid m

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      This ^

      “20%-30% of code inside the company’s repositories”

      Now, if they had said “20%-30% of code written in the past 6 months…” I might buy that.

      The repositories are going to have all the current codebase, likely going back years now. AI generated code is barely viable at this point and really only pretty recently.

      No way 1/3rd of all current codebase is AI.

      • Damage@feddit.it
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        28 days ago

        “Please move all comments from in-line to the line above, and add a separator line”

      • taladar@sh.itjust.works
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        28 days ago

        Even 20% of new code would be a stretch unless they count every first iteration of code written by AI that needs to be replaced by a human later because it was plain wrong.

    • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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      28 days ago

      I didn’t RTA, but if they mean ALL code at MS, that just can’t be true. They have legacy stuff going back decades, beyond just their windows platform. There’s no way 30% of all their code is replaced or newly created by AI.

    • takeda@lemm.ee
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      28 days ago

      They say that because they are selling it.

      And yeah, my experience is the same. The most frustrating is when writing in a typed python, and it gives answers that are clearly incorrect, making up attributes that don’t even exist etc.

      • Balder@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        My brother said his superior asked him to use more AI auto complete so that they can brag to investors that X percent of the company’s code is written by AI. This told me everything about the current state of this bullshit.

  • Wispy2891@lemmy.worldOP
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    28 days ago

    Power move by the zucc by first asking how much genai is used at Microsoft then refusing to answer his own question at Facebook 😂

  • Nighed@feddit.uk
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    28 days ago

    Would be interesting to see how they measured that metric. Are they tagging individual lines as AI generated?

    What those lines are too would be interesting,AI as auto complete is less dangerous than complete generation, but probably also less dangerous.

    • MimicJar@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      AI as auto complete is exactly what I was thinking.

      I’ve seen lots of cases where AI appears as an auto complete suggestion and I can just hit <TAB> and it finishes the current line. It’s essentially filling in the boilerplate text. Heck in some cases it isn’t even right, but it’s close enough that I can change a few values.

      I also want to point out that this isn’t particularly new technology. This existed before AI. It has perhaps expanded more, but it isn’t a revolutionary improvement, it’s an incremental one. So when we talk about usefulness, I think it is actually more useful.

      Now if it could do all the magic planning and thinking, that would be more useful, but we’re not there yet.

    • BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com
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      28 days ago

      Most probably Microsoft has set objectives for how much LoC are from LLMs and developers invented numbers to match that metric (because they probably have things more important to do than counting LoC)

  • FergleFFergleson@infosec.pub
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    28 days ago

    Well, that would explain a lot.

    I’m also guessing that at “up to 30%” of the company’s leadership decisions are being made by AI too.

  • tal@lemmy.today
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    28 days ago

    I hope that that’s inclusive of something like lines of documentation.

  • IcyToes@sh.itjust.works
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    28 days ago

    He used the word written by software. This is ambiguous and doesn’t mean AI, for example, using annotations for variables and generating the getters and setters would count. Right click and create function body for interface function definitions also.

    They’re exaggerating to pretend their AI is more useful than it is.

    • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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      28 days ago

      People have been using annotations to generate code since I rode my dinosaur to work.

    • MoonRaven@feddit.nl
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      28 days ago

      Intellisense in visual studio has also been really good for over a decade. Which is technically also written by software and not me.

      • Serinus@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        I mean, really good intellisense is a great improvement, but it’s not replacing devs any time soon.

  • kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com
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    28 days ago

    ??? No it’s not! Can investors sue because this is such an obvious lie? Pls I have 0.3 Microsoft shares

  • Mike@lemm.ee
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    28 days ago

    So this explains why Microsoft Swiftkey is total dogshit now. Also why the Outlook barely works.

    Its unbelievable.

    • Lemminary@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      I used to be able to swipe freely on SwiftKey, and now I can’t really do it without being extra careful and mindful of not spelling the wrong thing. Idk what Microsoft did to the product but I wouldn’t call it an improvement.

      • Mike@lemm.ee
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        28 days ago

        Idk what Microsoft did to the product but I wouldn’t call it an improvement.

        I think the article we’re looking at here isn’t really hyperbolic. They got AI to write all their code and broke the Keyboard.

        Just FYI, if you can live without swipping, I recommend FUTO keyboard., it is basically Swiftkey but it actually works and doesn’t come with Microsoft’s spyware built in.

        It’s what I use now, and I’m really happy. Don’t be fooled by it being in Alpha, because it works flawlessly.