The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.
Every person involved in making this decision deserves to be buried in an unmarked grave with the weapons they love so much. How many innocent people completely uninvolved with the war are going to grow up suffering the effects of depleted uranium rounds? Another absolutely monstrous decision in a long line of monstrous decisions by the US government.
Ah, yes, a nice hexbear to giggle at on my Sunday evening.
🌽 🌽 🌽
Post your hog
Yes, we get it, the response to literally every decision you don’t like is massacre of the people you don’t like
What do you think should be done with war profiteers that destroy societies for money?
Are you aware of what depleted uranium does to the human body? Innocent people are going to be dealing with the consequences of a decision made by a handful of people across the planet for decades after the war ends. Does poisoning generations of people sound like “defending” Ukrainians to you?
But Depleted uranium isn’t enriched uranium.
You’re lying.
Depleted uranium is still a very dangerous heavy metal. It just doesn’t irradiate what it poisons.
Who said it was? It’s still an environmental contaminant, a carcinogen, and linked to a rise in birth defects after its use in Iraq
It’s use will have consequences far outside of the conflict and ruin the lives of who knows how many people who had absolutely no say in this war and I’m supposed to cheer it on?
Yes, but why are you upset about this particular heavy metal as opposed to all the others involved in weapons?
The op is specifically about depleted uranium but hey, if you want to make the case that we shouldn’t be sending weapons to Ukraine in the first place I’m not going to argue against it
In that case, why do you pretend to care only about certain weapons when you don’t want any weapons sent?
depleted uranium is a radioactive carcinogen, and linked to substantial increases in birth defects and cancer in Iraq
- Yes, I’m aware of the effects of depleted uranium on the human body; are you? 2) What would you propose to help Ukraine evict the genocidal invaders from its territory?
Now we’re just throwing genocide into the mix?
No analysis, just vibes. Gonna go genocide some mashed potatoes rn
Just stepped in someones front yard without permission, which is technically an invasion, and ive been told this is tantamount to genocide. Am I an imperialist war criminal, Hexbear?
Guilty of all charges.
What would you propose to help Hawaii evict genocidal invaders from its territory?
Non radioactive munitions.
Show this thread to someone from the 1980s and they would kill themselves. Mainly over your shit
What a compelling response 🙄
Bruh said le sigh…
Seeing one thing Hm, this is like every thing
-The Eternal Lib
It’s almost like I’ve seen this same redfash response multiple times 🤔
What can I say we like methods that get results
It’s almost like my original comment was correct
Your original comment was word salad.
“You are treating a specific example like a broad generalization to deflect someone’s valid point”
vs.
“Heard that one before
”Redfash one hell of an oxymoron considering the reds are in the habit of killing fash.
They aren’t that dangerous as a weapon of war. The uranium is depleted, as the name suggest. The alternative is heavy metal, which is also dangerous to breathe in. It’s war and it sucks for health. Maybe there shouldn’t have been an invasion…
Any heavy metal causes similar issues. Heavy metal will be used, whether it’s uranium or something else. Should they just stop shooting?
Unironically yes. A peace deal was in the works last year until, according to the Ukranian Pravda, Boris Johnson pressured Zelensky not to go through with it. This would have stopped the fighting and resulted in some withdrawal of Russian troops, but since the West is more interested in weakening their geopolitical rivals and helping the weapons industry rake in profit than ending the war, they squashed any possibility of that happening.
Uranium is a very dangerous heavy metal, it just isn’t radioactive.
Nowhere did I make the claim that it was, that doesn’t change a thing
I’m replying to the person replying to you
My bad, I got the colors of the bars mixed up
Depleted Uranium is definitely radioactive. It’s depleted but there are still radioactive isotopes in it. It’s relatively same to handle until it’s fired and some of it turns to dust. The dust is both poisonous and radioactive. The toxicity of it is probably worse than the radiation but they’re both still bad.
The radioactivity is a problem its just like, not significant compared. Sorry my b
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7903104/ this shit is still causing birth defects in Iraq. This is Ukraine’s future now.
Oh well… The amount of health risks that these rounds would cause would pale in comparison to the mines that the Orcs have planted everywhere. Anything to drive out the invaders!
Orcs
The only time before the Ukraine War that I saw this term used to refer to real human beings was on Stormfront
Libs saw the events unfolding and were all like “YES! Now I can do socially acceptable racism! ORCORCORCORCORCORC”
The mask fell off awful quick.
OP is known tankie just fyi. Doesn’t justify US or Ukrainian actions but make sure you understand that the reason for posting this isn’t out of any actual concern for human beings. They’re also peddling covid conspiracies
So let me get this straight, according to you:
The people that don’t support either side of the war and want to end it as fast as possible through peace talks are evil tankies.
And the bloodthirsty monsters that want to prolong a pointless war, arm Azov Nazis and kill as many people as possible with illegal inhumane weapons that scar generations are freedom-loving liberals.
Seems like the tankies are the more reasonable ones in this situation.
So you neither support the rapist nor the victim. How enlightened centrist of you.
Lmao what a misogynistic pig to compare sexual assault to war.
What an imperialistic swine to not do it.
Damn, imagine hating women to own the Russians.
Imagine comparing condoning self-defence to hating victims.
Damn, imagine hating women to own the Russians.
That’s an interesting point, but have you considered Harry Potter?
I’m sure Ukrainian soldiers on the front line are worried about cancer and birth defects.
It’s not about them. It’s the children who find the spent ammo later.
This crap is the reason that there are birth defects spikes anywhere the US military operates.
Ok but the alternatives are not environmentally conscious either, finally the people who’s land it is should be the ones making choices about the conditions of that land
The alternative is to stop using people of Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia.
The people of Ukraine seem to have a somewhat different view on the matter
That’s a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let’s take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
election in 2004
2010 election
I wonder if anything of note happened between then and now, in other news Donald Trump is still president and gay marriage is illegal in the US
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
I suggest you go to Kyiv in the grocery store and explain this to the workers there
Oh yeah, things of note definitely happened since then
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
I suggest you go to Donbas and explain the above to people there that the regime you support has been maiming for the past decade.
Then why don’t you ask Russia to withdraw, wouldn’t that be easier?
Russia is obviously not going to withdraw, and you or me asking Russia to withdraw isn’t going to make it happen. However, people living in western countries do have at least some influence on their own regimes. Of course, the reason western regimes can keep the proxy war going is precisely because a lot of scumbags are cheering it on right now.
Tankies shaking in their boots over that Abrams 120mm DU APFSDS slicing though Russian steel like butter.
It’s so easy to trigger tankie bridgades. How many posts yall got about me now? Tagged me in a few!
more concerned about DU slicing through the dna of ukrainian children for years after the war like in Iraq
No you’re not, but its a convenient point for you to push.
Stuka username claiming others aren’t concerned about Ukrainians lmao
Remind me what the nazis did in Ukraine again?
I’ve had this username for a two decades and you tankies are the only ones to ever call me a nazi.
Know why? Cause I’ve never said a damn thing to support nazis. Yall just assume everyone’s as batshit crazy and fanatical as you.
I can hear your frustration as you search my history.
You are coming off as very not nice.
Ableism?
Aaaah, but they started it…
Imagine having a brain so smooth that you think abrams are going to fare any better than the leopards.
Can’t wait for Azov to become the new Taliban and bite America in the ass
File size requirements made me create this low res monstrosity lmao, also please do replace the Tilted Towers for the Palace of Culture and Sciences for thr more realistic scenario.
“Lol, how could people in the past be so dumb? Anyway, I’m off to give cluster bombs to some Nazi paramilitary groups.”
FYI that text was not in rambo
TIL. Apparently what it actually said was “The Gallant People of Afghanistan,” but the point is largely the same.
I thought they went back and changed it after the fact.
That’s what the rumor said, but googling seems to indicate it was a hoax. Though like I said the original is basically the same thing.
I mean who else it could even mean in USA movie? Especially considering what was in that particular movie.
bite America in the ass
It won’t be America it bites in the ass; they’ll be a deadly menace to their neighbors in the West (as I would imagine Russia is going to remain on its toes about armed Ukrainian militias). They’ve been pretty open about their far right views. Frankly this was actually a brilliant strategy for the government; much like how they turned the Middle East into nations yearning for America’s protection, so too will the rest of (Western) Europe now become new clients. As a business strategy it’s brilliant, my only question is why European governments and the idiots who vote for them over there actually going along with this; you’re watching the car careening towards the cliff, why are you cheering the guy pushing it from behind rather than slamming on the brakes.
Even the Taliban didn’t commit 9/11 until the US had already been engaged in military actions in Afghanistan for years by that point. War profiteering is the point.
From what I’ve read depleted uranium is not proven to cause cancer, nor is it not proven (With the exception that you inhale it or eat it).
In Iraq it’s still up to debate if it causes cancer or birth defects, since burning buildings and other burning stuff also causes a lot of nasty things to humans.
From what I’ve read they were also used in Bosnia, and they haven’t had similiar effects to Iraq.
So let the Ukrainians have their depleted uranium.
the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust
Literacy rates in capitalist nations continue to plummet.
If only the world were so simple that we could trust the organization tasked with banning the substance rather than reading primary sources.
I agree that depleted uranium shouldn’t be used, but your quote from the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons means nothing.
That’s like not listening to doctors about whether or not you should quit smoking because doctors are biased
That aligns with their chosen reality. People are simple creatures and any money will turn them into obedient slaves. The only doctor you can trust is the one who isn’t going paid because they’ve been ostracized for speaking the truth.
As a German, thank you. Meanwhile we’re still dragging our feet with the TAURUS, sigh.
Just another piece of evidence that the west never actually cared about Ukraine or people living there. Ukrainians are just a pawn the west is using to try and weaken Russia with zero consideration for the lives of the people living there.
Good thing Russia cared enough to murder, rape and kidnap them. What would Ukrainians do without help from great Putin?
But it’s the west that proclaims to be the great defenders of Ukraine. With friends like these who needs enemies.
And the west invaded, murdered, raped and kidnapped them? Didn’t know, new to me.
The west literally overthrew the legitimate and democratically elected government to install literal fascists in power who have been busy doing this the people in eastern Ukraine for the past either years. If this is news to you then take a sit because you have no clue regarding the subject you’re bloviating on here.
Russia does not need the west to weaken it, comrade, it is perfectly capable of doing that on its own!
Maybe try engaging with reality? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-11/russia-s-war-economy-is-on-course-to-recover-from-sanctions-hit
You expect me to pay for an article from a neolib shitstain outlet?
Have another neolib shitstain outlet, this time for free: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-economy-brain-drain-labor-shortage-workforce-exodus-capital-flight-2023-9
The truth is that it’s all quite hard to measure as Russia is lying about its economical figures (they make no sense whatsoever) and going via secondary indicators is possible, but also frought with uncertainty. But two things really stand out: a) investing in a war you’re losing is GDP flushed down the drain, b) they’re cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices, c) massive brain drain, there’s also d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.
If they manage to raise GDP by exporting more oil or whatnot – that’s raising GDP. It’s not actually doing the country any good. More petrorubles for the kleptocrats.
But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it… nah, not right, but definitely better.
Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn’t. That is what I mean with “perfectly capable of messing up on their own”. It’s also the reason for the war it’s a matter of regime stability: There’s plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.
I expect you to have minimal technical literacy to put the link URL in archive.
The truth is that there is no actual evidence to indicate that Russian economy is struggling in any way.
a) investing in a war you’re losing is GDP flushed down the drain
That certainly explains why Europe is in a deep recession now and why US economy is looking shaky.
b) they’re cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices
Once you look at a map you’ll realize that Russia shares a huge border with China where all the advanced technology is produced nowadays. Trade between Russia and China has shot up to over 200 billion this year.
c) massive brain drain
Very little evidence for that actually happening, the article you linked is written by the same people who claimed Russia was a gas station with nukes, and that Russian economy was going to collapse months after western sanctions were imposed. If you haven’t figured out that you’ve been lied to yet, that really says a lot about you.
d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.
Russia has very low food inflation and happens to be one of the major food producers globally. Once again, the fact that you think Russia has food inflation says volumes.
But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it… nah, not right, but definitely better.
We’re now seeing Russia having made it through two years of being cut off from the western economy, and doing well for itself. Meanwhile, countries like Estonia and Czech republic aren’t doing so hot. And frankly, it’s completely absurd to compare a country the size of Russia to a country like Estonia.
Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn’t.
That’s complete and utter horseshit. Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse. Ukraine started as a big industrial power after USSR collapsed, and now it’s been robbed entirely of anything of value.
There’s plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.
What people in Russia see is that under west’s leadership Ukraine managed to become worse than Russia. All that did was convince people in Russia that the west was going to fuck them over exactly the same way they fucked Ukraine over.
Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse.
Ukraine and Russia both did. One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.
I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the “More petrorubles for the kleptocrats” part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.
Ask Tuvans without access to electricity, running water, heck even a fucking gas station, how wealthy they are. Yet they’re not even counted as poor in the official statistics as the way poverty is counted in Russia is highly regional: If you’re poor in Moscow you count, if you’re infinitely worse off in the periphery you don’t.
That is why you see Russian soldiers – primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there’s no actual jobs – looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.
If you think that Putin is “draining the swamp” then you’re no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.
(Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That’s of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).
One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.
You must be referring to Russia here given that this is what’s happening in Ukraine right now
- https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/
- https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/in-ukraine-now-there-are-autocratic-tendencies-democracy-at-stake-rstd9nn3q
I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the “More petrorubles for the kleptocrats” part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.
There is zero indication to suggest that regular people in Russia are significantly effected in any way right now. Cost of food, housing, and other essentials has stayed stable.
That is why you see Russian soldiers – primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there’s no actual jobs – looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.
I mean if that’s what you’ve convinced yourself of then what else is there to say to you.
If you think that Putin is “draining the swamp” then you’re no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.
No, I don’t think Putin is draining any swamp, but I do think he runs a far more competent administration than western oligarchs.
(Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That’s of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).
And now thanks to the help from the west Ukraine is run by literal fascists. Maybe something you should reflect on.
In any case, this conversation is clearly pointless since you evidently live in an alternate reality. I’ll just let you figure things out on your own and reconcile the fantasies you’ve built up with the real world as it becomes increasingly more difficult to ignore going forward.
Well, the alternatives are heavy metal, which also aren’t the greatest to breathe in. It’s almost like war is aweful and this one shouldn’t have been started in the first place, but here we are…
No, the alternative is for the west to stop using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia.
The real alternative is for Russians to go home. Who the fuck cares who’s using them? They’re being invaded. Russia didn’t need to invade them, but they thought they could get away with it (again). This isnt the first invasion of a sovereign country Russia has done. It isn’t even the first invasion of Ukraine. The US didn’t get involved in the others. Are we just going to excuse those?
I don’t know why people keep repeating this. Do you honestly think this is a coherent point? Russia is obviously not going to go home no matter how many times you’re going to repeat it. It’s a meaningless and useless statement that literally solves nothing. Either NATO can defeat Russia or not, so far it looks like NATO is not able to do so. What NATO is accomplishing is prolonging the conflict without changing the outcome. That means more people dying and having their lives ruined so that US military industry can make a profit and so that US can try and weaken Russia geopolitically. Anybody who thinks the west is in this conflict to help Ukraine is an utter imbecile.
Should the US have sent supplies to the allies in WWI and WWII before joining? It was just prolonging the war and causing people to die, right?
The reason the US is doing it is not morality. Everyone knows that. International politics is never about morality, it’s about power. However, that doesn’t mean it isn’t also the moral option.
Also, NATO and the US are not in the war. We’re sending supplies. The US isn’t even sending the good stuff. We’re sending parts of our stockpile that’s old and has just been sitting around waiting for a use. They haven’t sent the newer technology so it it isn’t studied in case a real enemy requires them to be used.
It takes an incredible amount of historical illiteracy to try and draw parallels between WW2 and the proxy war US is waging against Russia in Ukraine. However, if you weren’t historically illiterate, then you’d also know that US companies continued working with the nazis well into the war, and IBM is famously responsible for facilitating the holocaust.
Also, NATO and the US are very obviously in this war, and one has to be utterly intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
When the US government was providing resources to the allies, was it good or bad? I’m not talking companies or anything else. You’re dodging the question. There are enough parallels to draw a comparison. You just know what the answer would be and it conflicts with your beliefs, so you can’t admit it, to yourself or others.
I’m sure Ukrainians agree with you.
Yeah i bet they want the war to end
The Ukrainians that the regime has been abusing for the past 8 years sure do, here’s some CNN reporting you might want to watch https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
Wow I can’t believe you’d post a video from known Moscow-backed front organization… CNN?
Putin puppets have infiltrated the highest echelons of liberal media. That’s the only plausible explanation for this.
And what, let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything? Let them destroy a fledgling democracy? Right on the EU’s and NATO’s doorstep? Come on.
let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything?
I’ve noticed that every pro-NATO voice screaming “war good” has to pretend like the binary outcome of this war is a) Ukraine becomes Russia and every living inhabitant is genocided (see above comment from bibibi for case in point), or b) Ukraine heroically drives back Russia with magic in a completely asymmetrical and unwinnable war
Come on.
And then finishes their comment with something like this
There’s no material analysis to support any of this
The only way to get to that viewpoint is to believe Putin is an irrational, genocidal maniac hellbent on killing checks notes neighbors who are ethnically russian, who also desperately wants to push even more of Russia’s border right up against a hostile NATO. It’s no surprise that the people saying this shit are pro NATO and don’t understand the material reality underlying geopolitical conflicts like this one
Not gonna touch the “fledgeling democracy” thing, other comrades can dunk on that
fledgling democracy
lmao are you fucking kidding
and shit while we’re at it, what the fuck do you think NATO has been doing its entire existence? it’s been destroying -actual- fledgling democracies, you monstrously hypocritical ass
How do you think this is going to end exactly?
- if Ukraine lose completely most of ukrainans living in Ukraine simply get extriminated or forcely assimilated.
- Russia started the war when invided Ukraine in 2014. not sure where the “using” is.
That’s just fractally wrong.
Why though? Can’t imagine that these rounds are going to change the course of the war, so why? Are they out of non-Uranium ones?
the cruelty is the point
Nope the effectiveness is the point.
Imagine being this bloodthirsty you’re willing to let Ukrainians suffer the effects of depleted uranium just to kill more Russians
I think Russia would be the most bloodthirsty if this was a contest. Good try though.
Whataboutism.
Please don’t use that against them, even as a bit as it’s extremely powerful and causes irreperable emotional damage. Be mindful, libs are people too.
The body count of the West is several orders of magnitude higher than Russia’s
“let” Ukrainians.
Your patronising colonial mask is slipping.
Ukrainians have ASKED for these weapons so they can get rid of the murderous, child torturing Russians out of their country.
Stop amplifying the propaganda of child torturers.
“Opposing the poisoning of masses of innocent people who had no say in the war is propaganda. I am very smart!”
it’s kind of impressive how consistently we get the dumbest takes possible from lemmy.ee
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And you know how the Vietnam war ended, right?
There was a peace agreement between the north and the south, and then a few years later North Vietnam broke it and invaded again, taking over all of the country.
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So basically admitting you don’t know the actual history? Maybe start with reading a Wikipedia page or something.
None of that excuses US war crimes in Vietnam, but it does show how a potential future with a hypothetical peace treaty could look like.
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I’m just glad that as an Adult in the room, I’m on the right side of history. Arming Ukranian Nazis with depleted uranium is actually the least evil option and anyone who doesn’t understand that is a child.
Another 50 billion for the cause!
