- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
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buying an EV is stupid if you don’t have home charging and will be that way for the foreseeable future. hybrid makes sense for a lot of people right now.
Still I’m not convinced buying a new EV is saving shit, it’s just shifting the source of emissions. nor do I think it’s that much more economical compared to ice in the long run. I think it’s a wash so I’m sticking with ice
I love how many arguments against EVs start with “I think.” Don’t let facts get in your way, my guy.
Hybrid > BEV
This is misinformation. Why combine all types of hybrids with EVs. It’s a fact that EVs are piling up on dealer lots. They can’t move them.
Hybrids on the other hand are still trading like hotcakes. Go try to buy a RAV4 Hybrid right now. Spoiler: you can’t.
It turns out that Toyota was right all along and hybrids are the correct answer at the present time. Most people don’t need more than 50-100 miles of range on their electric motor. You get that with a hybrid and then have the gas option for long road trips. It’s truly the perfect solution. And it’s also the most environmentally friendly option as Toyota has said they can produce 8 hybrid units for the same amount of battery materials as 1 BRZ4XG&.
Toyota was right.
Did you bother to open the link? There’s nothing misleading, they give data for hybrids and EVs and they’re almost exactly the same percentage.
It’s a fact that EVs are piling up on dealer lots.
the ones from lazy OEM’s that are $80k+ for only 200 miles of range, definitely.
Please don’t post articles that threaten this subs out of touch takes
How much are EVs vs Hybrids tho
If you bothered to click the link you’d see that they’re almost exactly even.
But I thought demand for EVs was cratering?! 🙄
HEVs are booming, BEVs are slumping
Sure, that’s why BEV sales are up something like 50% year over year
Easier to do when the starting number is lower. 50% of 1m is easier than 50% of 100m (dramatic example only, not real numbers). I think the best number to use is the overall take rate of a BEV of the total sales. Example, fortune magazine posted an article 6 days ago about BEVs having a 9% take rate so far in 2023 in the US, and quick search shows about 7.3% take rate for 2022. Still a decent increase.
That said, BEVs in some sectors are selling like hot cakes, others seem to a bit slower to sell, coming from the manufacturers.
The truth is getting around faster than suckers are being born.
That’s the real reason for the BEV slump and HEVs taking off.
That’s what Toyota and Big Oil want you to believe.
This sub loves hybrids…
I’m very happy with my Lexus
I love pure engines.
Only as a cudgel against EVs. As a long time Prius fan and fan of hybrids in general, I remember how vehemently they hated it until they needed something to counter the EV wave.
Hybrids have come a long way including the Prius itself tbf
If anyone drove a modern EV versus a modern hybrid, they’d never suggest a hybrid with a straight face. Hybrids are an absolute snooze to drive, loud comparatively, and about as refined as a mid century tractor
this is the most exaggerated take on hybrids I’ve ever seen lol not biased at all given your flair.
Or it’s just an accurate take of someone who also owns a hybrid?
their flair checks out though, Tesla fanboys are one of the most pretentious out there lol
Have you ever driven a Lexus hybrid?
Evs also got this sub to love public transit too as a cudgel against EVs lmao. I guess it’s proof a rising tide lifts all ships.
But the hybrid rhetoric here is hilarious.
Before ev: “too complicated, too expensive, going to break”
After ev push: “hybrids are the actual best option for everyone, complexity is good actually”
This sub should love public transport though. Less cars on the road means driving is more enjoyable, less accidents, safer roads, etc.
Haha, you are so right. The amount of support for hybrids and public transit on this sub has never been so high. It’s hilarious.
Should be no surprise to anyone who has looked at EV prices lately. I can walk into a EV Jag for the price of a RAV4. And given the lack of issues EV’s tend to have, I can see why people might spring for that.
that’s a used EV jag for 44k… very misleading lol
Yup a Jaguar EV, I’m sure there will be no issues…
Honestly I’d bet money that thing is going to be very reliable, Jaguar is very good with electrical systems, so having them toss out the engine and gearbox is going to do a lot of good for reliability. Seen models of these with over 400k miles on the clock.
Don’t lump EVs and hybrids together. Hybrids have been popular for a long time, don’t change the ownership experience from any other ICE vehicle, and are an organic way to transition from fossil to electric power.
EVs, despite all the subsidies and being pushed hard worldwide with threatened ICE bans and other punitive government regulations against ICE, are still unpopular. Toyota was right to put out that EV ecosystem is immature and that hybrids are the answer and would NOT go all in on EVs, and that connect with reality is why they are the number one largest automotive manufacturer and are likely to remain so, while others like Ford are having big time regret as they lose a huge amount of money on every EV they sell.
are still unpopular
According to the article their market share percentage are already about the same as hybrids, a much more mature and well adopted technology.
Like… why don’t you at least open the article and read first before sharing opinions?
By lumping in EVs with non-EVs, the first glance impression is that they are more popular than they are, as people will remember the 18% figure instead of 7%. And even 7% sounds better than saying that 93% of vehicles sold are not EVs.
And imagine what the EV sales figures would be without the $7.5K discount, or conversely, imagine how much higher non-EV sales would be if they also enjoyed a $7.5K discount.
Imagine if gas RAV4s were sold instead of $30K for only $22.5K.… a little common sense goes a long way to see how even with Ford losing $33.5K on every EV they sell and the government forcing Americans to pay for EVs with their tax dollars whether they buy one or not, that they are remarkably unpopular.
even 7% sounds better
First of all it’s 7.9%, and hard numbers are hard numbers, how it sounds “good” or “bad” is entirely subjective. I personally think 1 out of every 12 cars being EV is great.
and imagine
What’s the point in imagine an alternative reality?
Imagine how many EVs would be sold if gas price goes up 50% without all the oil company subsidies? Imagine how many EVs would be sold if we tax engines by displacement like all civilized countries do?
But that’s not the case, so you can’t choose and pick what alternative reality you wanna live in.
Imagine how many EVs would be sold if gas price goes up 50% without all the oil company subsidies?
Why would gas prices go up 50% overnight without government interference to cause that? The fossil fuel industry is also heavily net taxed, not net subsidized, so you seem very confused. For example, if a banker makes $10 million and gets various subsidies (such as buying some EVs and taking advantage of other government programs) that amount to $90K tax discount but still pays $2.8 million in taxes, that is not a net subsidy. By contrast, lets say there is a fast food employee that makes $20K, but receives various subsidies that add up to $9K, this person receives more from the government than is paid and is a net subsidy. The fact that the banker received ten times the “subsidy” doesn’t mean he was net subsidized, and in fact if the government didn’t interfere he would be millions richer, whereas the fast food employee would be $9K poorer.
Sorry to ELI5 this, but I hear this a lot about fossil fuel subsidies which is laughable, and defies common sense since regions with a lot of fossil fuels often get most of their income from the heavy net taxation of those industries (like Alaska for example).
the fact that ICE is still so much more popular,
No kidding. For years Nokia was more popular than iPhones too… And everyone was buying Kodak film camera as well…
shows that EV sales are ENTIRELY a product of government interference in the free market.
So you are saying without $7500, EV sale would be zero? Ok.
I mean what do I even say to people like you? LMAO.
For years Nokia was more popular than iPhones too
Great example, and yet somehow the masses transitioned to iPhones from Nokia when they found that the product was superior, without any government mandates or subsidies on iPhones required!
Imagine! Consumer choice can create market changes!
So you are saying without $7500, EV sale would be zero? Ok.
Without massive government interference, EV sales would be zero. I think we can all agree, Tesla wouldn’t even exist, right? Musk says that, so why shouldn’t we trust him? And if major manufacturers like Ford tell us that they are losing $33.5K on every EV they sell, and they have all the numbers to back that up in their earnings reports that are scrutinized by law, why should we believe they are lying?
Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that vehicle manufacturers actually make cars because they want profit (crazy, but hear me out). So if Ford increased their EV prices by say $40K to get the same profits they enjoy on ICE vehicles and then consumers had to add another $7.5K to the price, do you still think they would spend nearly $48K more for the electric version of a vehicle?
My guess is nuh-uh, and if nobody is buying them then no one would be making them, and sales would be zero.
isn’t hybrid a big broad? mild-hybrid, hybrid and plug-in hybrid?
Not really, in the US excluding a few trucks we basically only have full hybrids and other than Honda they’re basically all using the same Toyota/Paice technology.
Well yeah but the point of the article title was to make it look like EVs are booming even though it’s barely putting a dent even with the government putting unreasonably strict emissions on manufacturers and throwing money at buyers in the form of rebates.
I mean EV sales are up 50% YoY. It’s not like you won’t be able to find gas cars next year, but they are growing quickly.
If EV sales were booming, Subaru wouldn’t offer 0.0% financing on their EV only. One dealer had -$13000 off the Soltera. Not to mention tax credits to push them off the lot.