That’s not true! They have to keep sending it back to the kitchen over and over and over, spending a little more money each time, really being in a dialogue with the chef
It goes crust, sauce, then cheese!
Got it.
Cat dog goldfish
And it’s three layers of cardboard that looks like an anime pizza
Just wait until pixar style pizza
Was worried where that was going for a second
Only if they’d asked Grok.
Do Americans really just say cheese pizza instead of Margherita?
Those are two very very different things man
Depends on where from what I’ve seen in other replies
Those are different things
This is a margherita pizza. If a kid asks for cheese pizza and receives that, they’d be upset.
Queen Margherita would behead anyone that served her the modern cheese pizza
That’s a stereotypical traditional Margherita pizza, yes. But a Margherita at a takeaway on a high street you go to after a night out is going to be just passata and a hecka load of cheese.
Where exactly?
In my experience in America, “cheese pizza” usually means shredded mozzarella spread evenly over the pizza while “Margherita style” means chunks of fresh mozzarella.
In the UK Margherita literally just means cheese on a pizza, regardless of the type of cheese from what I can tell. Obviously some places do the more fancy mozzarella blobs but most places it’s just grated cheese (usually still mozzarella though)
Seems like the UK has it wrong on the name, then. The margherita pizza I am familiar with has large slices of mozzarella, a chunky tomato sauce, and basil on top.
Ordering a margherita pizza and getting a generic pizza made with shredded cheese and marinara sauce would be a major disappointment.
Ordering a margherita pizza and getting a generic pizza made with shredded cheese and marinara sauce would be a major disappointment.
Andy: Okay. You guys ever had Margherita pizza?
Stanley: What’s that?
Andy: Fresh tomato with a dollop of mozzarella cheese.
Stanley: That’s pizza.
Pam: That’s regular pizza.
[pizza arrives, Andy looks in the box]
Andy: Ah, their interpretation of Margarita pizza. Fans of classic pizza will be psyched.The Office (US) S8E1 “The List”
The margherita pizza I am familiar with has large slices of mozzarella, a chunky tomato sauce, and basil on top.
That’s a margherita pizza in the US.
Ordering a margherita pizza and getting a generic pizza made with shredded cheese and marinara sauce would be a major disappointment.
Imagine my chagrin when, traveling in Europe, I ordered a margherita pizza and received a cheese pizza. I thought they got my order wrong. It took me like three tries on separate days before I found out that that’s just what margherita means outside the US…
Americans easily gets confused when people are using different terms and words for things than Americans are.
The point is that what you encountered wasn’t wrong, it was just different from what you were used to.
Ok, but it’s also actually incorrect to call a plain cheese pizza “margherita”. And I learned that while in Italy.
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. I related a personal experience about when I learned there was a difference, but that doesn’t mean I thought it was wrong.
Just a humorous way to laugh at myself while saying “the world is bigger than you think, and words can mean different things in different places.”
Wouldn’t it be the other way around. The comment that spawned this entire thing was literally about what Americans in america call it. And we use different words for the two things. So this is a case of Europeans being confused that Americans call two different ways to prepare a pizza by two different names.
I mean, I’ve had margherita pizzas outside of the US as well and they matched my expectations. At least in Asia and South America. So I guess it just leaves me puzzled as to how much of Europe (maybe just the non-NA Anglosphere) is getting it wrong when Italy is right there.
I’ve also seen pizzas that I would describe as margherita pizza when visiting Scandinavia, but if you’re in Sweden and you’re having anything other than the banana curry pizza, you’re doing yourself a disservice
leaves me puzzled as to how much of Europe is getting it wrong when Italy is right there.
That’s the part you’re not getting. Europe isn’t the one “getting it wrong.” If you want to claim that only one way is correct, then the US is the incorrect way.
A country’s proximity to italy is irrelevant. There’s literally an Italian in this thread who says margherita pizza in italy just means cheese pizza.
It’s like claiming Germany does bratwurst wrong because it doesn’t taste like the ones you get from the supermarket in the US.
Checking various lists from countries this is as far as I can tell EXCLUSIVELY a problem of western Europe.
All three of the Americas, china, Russia, japan, Scandinavian, and basically everywhere else I can find. Use two different terms to separate a cheese and margarita pizza.
So this is just a case of Europe is infact wrong. In fact Naples where the pizza style was invented uses the same terms as america.
The USA copied Naples.
The UK and much of western Europe. Like normal, is bastardizing what foods are called while the rest of the world just steals the terms from where it’s invented.
Pizza margherita is pizza margherita. American cheese pizza is pizza quattro formaggi.
Source: Italian.
Italy here: Margherita is the basic pizza, tomato sauce and mozzarella.
Basil is basically always included in the sauce of normal pizzas.
Basil is basically always included in the sauce of normal pizzas.
I wish that were the case in the US.
But also, margherita pizza here usually has whole or chopped basil leaves added directly on top
It’s such a cheap ingredient, it makes no sense to omit it
Probably cheap in Italy. In the US if you grow your own basil you don’t really want to publicize that cause you’ll be labeled as bougie
And some people won’t eat anything that seems too “foreign,” like good bread and most spices and herbs.
Weird. It’s just a plant, takes plenty of sun and water and that’s it. I’ve got two in pots, one even survived the winter, which they usually don’t, although I had to fight Noctua caterpillars. (very silent caterpillars? no, not that Noctua)
Lol, have some downvotes for your experiences, or something like that…
Anyhow I agree, it’s the same in Germany.
In Australia it can sometimes mean with blobs of mozzarella but typically it’s grated with fresh cubed/sliced tomato added.
Most places also do a basic cheese only, some with a 3 or 4 cheese as a more expensive version.
I’m surprised Australians don’t put beets on their pizza. It belongs there about as much as on a burger.
(I’m kidding, I miss Australia very much - just not the beets 😅)
Beetroot and Feta is a great pizza!
That sounds awesome actually
In the US, margherita pizza usually has fresh mozarella and basil
Cheese pizza is just “plain,” meaning just crust, sauce, and cheese. The cheese could be any kind, most often either shredded mozarella or provolone. If it’s fancy maybe a blend including hard cheeses like parmesan, romano, fontina, and/or asiago.
Some absolute heretics actually put cheddar cheese on their pizza. We don’t talk to those.
But yeah, there’s a difference here between “cheese pizza” and “margherita pizza”
Marg has basil
Why would you ever have a pizza without basil? :o
There’s over a thousand ways to prepare a pizza. You don’t need the same thing on all of them.
I agree, but passata usually just has basil as part of it so it becomes kind of a given for pizza.
I like basil too, but it doesn’t need to be on every pie
Why would anyone have the nerve to eat anything I don’t like!?
If you bought “pizza sauce” in a jar you are already in fact eating it and presumably already liking it
I was making fun of the other poster
We’re talking about the US where everything is bland by default.
It’s like asking why you would eat wheat without the bran. For some unknown, godforsaken reason, they remove it here before it makes it to the shelves, and if you want the stuff with the bran intact then it’ll cost extra because that apparently makes it “artisan” or some shit.
And a significant portion of the population here looks at everything beyond the bland defaults as snobby excess. “Why are you eating a cheese I can’t pronounce? Are you a commie or some’n?”
There’s one thing I would describe food in the US as it’s not bland. We show up together more different cultures foods than anywhere else on the planet… If anything, our food is a horrible abomination of overly seasoned monstrosities.
I legitimately can’t think of a single place in America where what you’re saying is remotely true outside of maybe like North Dakota…
Like America still holds the record for most cheese consumed per capita. Hell America’s third, in the most types of cheeses consumed and produced only behind France and Italy. When it comes to cheese, America does not f*** around.
Hell this entire section’s America wear insulting someone’s cheese can get you a shot. We give France a run for their money when it comes to cheese snobbery. You have to be incredibly ignorant to think America doesn’t care about cheese.
The only real thing that America struggles with is heat. We love spices. We love peppers. We love flavors and herbs. But just pure raw heat for heat’s sake is sort of Hit or Miss.
But at the same time we also consume more hot sauce than anyone else in the world. So figure that one out.
Except that at least half the country only eats that plasticky “american cheese” because they think anything else isn’t patriotic.
All that other stuff: hot sauce, chips, etc., it’s all just overly-processed, mass-produced, artificially-flavored crap that tries to overcompensate for the blandness of everything else that’s a staple of “american” cuisine.
In other countries they actually blend spices and herbs and chilis and they use good ratios to make complex and harmonious flavors. That’s not the same thing at all as putting ranch on your chicken nuggets.
And yes, I know there are immigrant communities with ethnic cuisine. But those are indicative of the cuisines of their homeland. America cannot take credit for that. Especially because there’s at least a third of the country who won’t eat it because they think it’s too “foreign.”
So providing counterexamples doesn’t refute my statement because it wasn’t absolute. I didn’t say “all americans are like this” or that “you can’t find flavorful food anywhere in america.”
But the fact remains that a significant portion of the american population does avoid anything beyond white bread, american cheese, and all the most basic stuff they consider “american” or “normal” foods.
If you’ve never had the displeasure of knowing someone like that, good for you. You might live in a vibrant and progressive area. I haven’t been so fortunate, and all my life I’ve been judged for enjoying fancy cheeses, herbs and spices, various types of cuisines from cultures around the world, etc. So don’t tell me my experience isn’t real.
My 4 year old nephews always asks to get the “green stuff” removed from their pizza’s because it looks like vegetables. I imagine Americans the same way.
Edit: seeing the downvotes, I’ll double down with some examples to illustrate my point. Adapting dishes to the American public generally just involves removing vegetables and making it less healthy generally by adding more sauce, sugar, fat and/or salt.
Chinese food -> More sauce and remove the vegetables
Gyros -> remove the fresh vegetables
Burritos -> overload with just meat, cheese, sour cream, remove the vegetables
Tacos -> whatever Taco Bell does, you don’t really want to eat their raw vegetables anyway
Crepes -> remove the fruits, just do nutella and sugar
Pasta/Macaroni dishes -> just cheese (Mac n cheese)
Curry dishes -> just the meats and rice please, remove the vegetables
Outside of fast food which does everything you’re describing is a manner of cost cutting. Not a single thing you said here is remotely true like at all.
But if you want to use the literal cheapest low quality option as the example for what the entire country prefers ignoring every single cultural region in the nation… I guess you’re technically right?
I’ll take it! Being the motor behind McDonaldisation I do think the US has a habit of creating cheap, unhealthy versions of many culinary dishes and exporting the formula worldwide.
Of course it’s a bit of a generalisation to say all Americans are like toddlers, I still think as a country they deserve me imagining them as such.
I checked and it looks like American cheese pizza is different from a Margherita. It is more uniformly looking, and it has a dominant cheese flavour without the freshness of the tomatoes and basil.
Yeah if you ask for Margarita pizza here you get exactly what a margarita pizza is. So the same thing you would expect in Naples. The presentation might change a little bit depending on where exactly you get it, but it’s going to be the same ingredients in the same general style.
A cheese pizza is literally just a f*** load of cheese and nothing else. You’re getting literally exactly what you’re asking for.
It’s why they’re different terms. If you want the original Maple style pizza you ask for margarita. If you want a slab of cheese on top of some bread you ask for a cheese pizza.
Do non-americans really not know the difference?
The differences outside of the US are different. So there is no US-difference for non-Americans to learn. You are just attempting to push your local reality unto the rest of the world.
I was just mocking the person I replied to
The only “cheese” pizza I know is quattro formaggi.
Which is 4 cheeses (iirc specific cheeses), distinct from other cheese pizzas
I’m sure you have cheese pizzas and they’re distinct from quattro formaggi. I’m not saying there isn’t. I’m just answering your question. As a non-american, the only pizza with cheese is quattro formaggi. All the others are just “pizza”. Because all the others have tomato sauce + mozzarella as a base. Except supermarket pizzas which sometimes have cheaper cheeses on them. But they’re still just pizza, not “cheese pizza”.
Interesting. Thanks, I didn’t understand you were actually answering my question haha. Curious what region you’re from, if you’re comfortable saying.
I’m from Romania.
Outside of america, there is no difference.
Cheese pizza isn’t necessarily done with mozzarella or at least not just with mozzarella. I’ve seen places have both on the menu (Cheese + Margherita)
Look at what you’ve done 😂
People really came to arms for the cheese vs Margherita debate
*edit: imho, the distinction is because we Americans will make delicious heart attack monstrosities, just a brick of processed cheese melted over a thin layer of tomato sauce, that aren’t present in other countries and require distinction from the more tame Margherita pozza.
Not sure why the waiter is frowning, it’s not like he made it.
Again, the value of AI is not in its ability to make pictures, it’s in it’s value to do business tasks
Can it make pictures? Sure. Is that why AI worth billions? No
Nobody gives a shit that it make pictures. We’re using it to take notes, manage pipelines, review and write code, analyze data, make up-to-date reports every 10 minutes, looks for trends in the stock market, looks for planets and shit in images of the stars, help us develop medicine, etc…
Can we vote to make “pipeline” a certified buzzword?
Also last few examples are predictive AI, not generative. Microsoft is not shoving down their statistical user analysis software down my throat every 2 seconds. The 365 copilot chatbot on the other hand…
Cool story. Now do the costs.
Great, make a comic about the costs then
Extreme beliefs in ai is annoying - whether good or bad. There is a middle ground that the fediverse refuses to have. That’s why you’re being downvoted.
Yes we do those things to - while it also does wholesale copyright theft and floods the internet with generated photos
If only you’d make comics about that people might not think you’re all a bunch of children
Ok, so here’s my question. AI is a tool, not a person. So I create text prompts for it to make whatever I type (theoretically). You say that takes no skill, sure.
Now a writer who inputs the description of a character they created in a book into AI and it makes a picture of a person based on the writers creative skilled writing. Are you saying it’s crap even though the writer put skill into the unique description, but used a tool to make a picture based on it?
By that token if AI is a tool, would a artists brush be considered bullshit slop because it’s used to make a pairing. By definition it’s a tool as well.
Lots of people don’t understand that so-called “AI” is just another computer program.
They really think it’s like a person. Feeding the grift.
Are you saying it’s crap even though the writer put skill into the unique description, but used a tool to make a picture based on it?
Yes, they are entirely different domains. Thats like saying if someone painted a very beautiful picture, with effort and detail. Then claimed authorship over stories written about the subject.
Inspiration is a real thing, and should be lauded, but it still takes skill and an eye for art to render a scene. When someone gets a tattoo, do they usually claim they were the artist, should I? I have an extremely detailed idea for one I’d like to get, colors picked out, subject, poses, etc. but I am not skilled enough to render it, nor put it on my body. I’ve got a great design, but no art.
When someone gets a tattoo, do they usually claim they were the artist
No, because there’s a human right there doing the actual work.
With computer generation (aka “AI”) there’s just one person and a computer hooked up to the internet. You can claim that the people on the internet broadly deserve the credit - including the people who wrote the computer program. But that’s nothing like getting a tattoo.
No I think it’s more like hiring someone to do the work (as in the comic). Beyond using Autotune or making a collage, turning something into something else.
If you are just asking CAN the AI be used as a tool for art, maybe? If I ask it to show me something then use that “something” to make a different work, I don’t think that’s different from finding that inspo elsewhere. Like if I theoretically asked an AI “what else can I do with all this basil” and it gave me a list and I made a version of one of those ideas, I would still think I was the chef.
Digital freehand art takes a lot of practice, one of my kids does both offline (watercolors, pens, acrylic paint) and digital drawing and they are equally challenging.
deleted by creator
A way better execution of your example would be people making design documents and the people building it.
Its a symbiosis, without one the other can’t work. Let’s say I sit down and make a full concept and prototype construction plan for a small tank model. That makes me a (hopefully) good CAD designer. If I than put this into a hypothetical fully automatic CNC machine, I can’t say I’m a good machinist. Replace Cad design with prompting and the fully automatic CNC machine with AI.
Shit goes in, shit comes out.
Oh yeah and also the fully auto CNC machine just has a bunch of Cad Files from people who have never consented to it being used and reused to assemble the cad file mostly relating to the prompt.
There are still people who don’t think digital artists are real artists because they use computer assistance. And there are ethically trained image gen models out there.
Fundamentally, someone is using a tool to get an inspiration from their head into the physical world. The tool can’t do anything without the user’s input, and the user can’t get the output they want without using the tool correctly (prompting). I don’t think the ease of the process should have a major impact on the legitimacy of it.
When people refer to AI as a tool, they mean as a part of the drawing/rendering workflow, not the whole. If you went through the entire design workflow without the AI, you can take full ownership over that. That part still takes your skill. But if the AI still builds most if not all of the image, you can’t really claim ownership over the image, since from that point, the AI makes (basically) all of the skillful decisions.
Only if you start being a part of actively shaping the drawing, like providing a sufficiently original base image or other advanced original input, drawing over or recomposing the image afterwards, you can get something you were actually a part of it. That’s the (closer) equivalent of an artists brush. The artist uses and applies the brush in a way to make something that becomes bigger than it’s parts. Using AI for the full image would be equivalent to applying a stamp. It can be a very pretty stamp, but something else made it.
Saying “I made this”, isn’t false per se, but the omission of “by having the AI draw my design.” does drastically change the perception to the point it’s deceptive. It’s just about being honest. If you made a cool design, stick to taking credit for the design. At the end of the day, not being a part of putting the design into a drawing is not uncommon, but certainly better than being deceptive, even if some people may dislike the AI use. Those people will hate you all the more for lying by omission over it if that was an issue for them, and it can certainly also draw unhappy responses from others who would be fine if you told them honestly.
EDIT: Typo
yes, why wouldn’t it be crap? putting effort into the input to feed a probabilistic machine doesn’t suddenly make the output appealing somehow. there is a difference of skill and resulting quality between an artist using a brush and a person using a slop generator. the notion that your slop generator is generating slop because you’re simply prompting it wrong is nonsense.
and quite frankly, whoever thinks that an image generator built on mass scraping others’ creative works pushed forward by the worst of big tech and a paintbrush are equivalent in ethics and quality because they say they’re both “tools” might just be a tool as well.
Okay, but weren’t people already taking pictures of the food the ordered to post on Instagram as if (although never explicitly claiming that) they made it themselves?
If the photo is set in a restaurant or on a tray or in a wrapper then it is safe to say the person posting it on social media didn’t make it
So not doing the thing being shown in the comic?
Looks like slop, moves like a slop.
