So I saw political compass memes a while ago and started making one, but then I started taking it too seriously and eventually turned it into a tier list. Idk if it makes sense to share it here, but idk where else to share such a thing. I also made a browser tier list, but idk where to share that either.
This whole thing is a png export of a pure svg image. For some of the logos, I had to make them either from scratch or by using gimp and inkscape to convert a png into an svg (imperfect but good enough).
Hopefully this is all formatted properly.
OS Tier List
S-Tier (reasonably secure operating system):
- Qubes OS
Advanced (complicated setup and configuration):
- Gentoo Linux
- Guix System
- Slackware Linux
- Linux From Scratch (LFS)
- Mobile NixOS
- NixOS
- Whonix
- Predator-OS
- Linux Kodachi
- Gentoo FreeBSD
Enhanced (optimized security and minimalism):
- Alpine Linux
- Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre
- Chimera Linux
- EasyOS
- postmarketOS
- Tails
- Kicksecure
- NetHydra
- ParrotOS
- OpenBSD
- GrapheneOS
- Secureblue
Minimal (maximally mini resource use):
- Tiny Core Linux
- LibreCMC
- Void Linux
- Puppy Linux
- AsteroidOS
- Slitaz
- 4MLinux
- OpenWrt
- DragonFly BSD
- FreeBSD
- NetBSD
Indie & BSD (independent distros and BSD systems):
- PCLinuxOS
- Dynebolic
- KaOS
- Mageia
- LuneOS
- Solus
- AerynOS
- GNOME OS
- KDE Linux
- GhostBSD
Arch (reasonably fresh and arch-based):
- SystemRescue
- Parabola GNU/Linux-libre
- pearOS
- EndeavourOS
- Nemo Mobile
- Arch Linux Arm
- BlackArch Linux
- Archhurd
- Archcraft
- Nyarch
- Ageless Arch
- Arch Linux
- CachyOS
- Garuda Linux
Debian (reasonably stable and debian-based):
- Flora Linux-libre
- Genuen
- Devuan GNU+Linux
- Loc-OS
- antiX
- MX Linux
- Maemo Leste
- Mobian
- Emmabuntüs
- Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE)
- Ageless Linux
- Debian
- KNOPPIX
- PikaOS Linux
- RetroPie
- LibreElec
- Vanilla OS
Corpo-ish (corporation-created and/or dependent):
- Replicant
- Uruk GNU/Linux-libre
- Trisquel GNU/Linux
- AnduinOS
- Linux Lite
- UBports
- Xubuntu
- Lubuntu
- Kubuntu
- Linux Mint
- KDE neon
- Fedora
- Asahi Linux
- Bazzite
- Nobara Linux
- Rocky Linux
- AlmaLinux
- openSUSE
Corporate (corporation-owned and/or controlled):
- /e/OS
- Sailfish OS
- PureOS
- Manjaro Linux
- Raspberry Pi OS
- OSMC
- Kali Linux
- Zorin OS
- Tuxedo OS
- Pop!_OS
- elementary OS
- Ubuntu
- Proxmox
- SteamOS
- CentOS Stream
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
- CloudLinux OS
- SUSE Linux Enterprise
- Unraid
Dubious (questionable and/or suspicious):
- Waydroid
- Artix Linux
- Omarchy
- OpenMandriva
Borderline (possibly dangerous and best to avoid):
- LineageOS
MALWARE (actively dangerous and harmful to use):
- android
- chromeOS
- Apple Operating Systems (macOS, iOS, etc.)
- Windows
- Red Star OS
I think there is a lack of Void-based distros.
Although, why are Waydroid, Artix, Omarchy and LineageOS dubious, suspicious or borderline?
I made a really long comment answering those questions here.
I forgot how to properly link to comments in such a way that they will point to the comment on whichever instance is seeing them (idk how else to word that either), so I searched and found the link for your instance so it’ll be accessible to you.
If you or anyone else understands what I’m talking about and know the answer, please remind me how to properly link stuff. <3
Edit: Oh yeah, and I suppose I can investigate Void-based distros to add to the list (I am a master-procrastinator and so it will likely take quite a while)
I’ve just read them and… Now all makes sense… 💀
Yeah, Qubes is cool, but then you need a second system/os to do “normal” stuff…
What “normal” stuff can’t be done in a qube?
Stuff like games, video conferencing, screen sharing, android development, flashing ROMs, 3D CAD/slicing… if you care about dropped frames I would even put video playback on that list.
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With a powerful enough processor and enough RAM, even modern games should be playable, excluding the ones requiring anti-cheat stuff i guess (I’m not a gamer so idk).
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Video-conferencing is very much possible with things like matrix, as is screen-sharing (though that would be limited to the specific qube doing the screen-sharing, and you wouldn’t want that in dom0 for obvious reasons).
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Is android development not possible in a vm? idk why it wouldn’t be. And idk about flashing ROMs but I was able to flash postmarketOS onto a Pinephone without issues.
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3D CAD stuff would likely need a powerful processor and lots of RAM allocated to the specific qube doing the work, but it should be doable.
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Video playback is perfectly fine as it is, no dropped frames at all. And I don’t even bother giving any qubes more than the default 4GB RAM.
Well, maybe my hardware sucks or I have skill issues, but all of these are major hurdles. In the case of android/flashing, many things will reset the connection, which breaks the first qubes sharing command, and I can’t share the “new” device (same device now in a different mode) b/c either I’m too slow or it only works for the first connection (and it’s not in the right state after trying to re-share the device a second time due to a bus reset, or the like)…
Maybe that’s more of an issue with android than Qubes OS, since flashing postmarketOS has absolutely no issues for me. idk. I also format usb drives and sd cards without issues. I’ll add this to my list of reasons to not bother with android, lol.
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Nice. Although, many of these Linux OSes are complying with Identity Verification laws. So… that automatically docks points from them for me.
If you’re talking about the age-verification stuff, I actually did have a group for “Plans to Age-Verify” but decided to hide that since it made the image even more complicated and difficult to interpret than it already is. If/when any of the distros above the gray area do end up implementing age-verification in such a way that the user cannot simply ignore it, then they will be dropped to the gray area with the other operating systems which I cannot recommend.
Personally, them saying they will comply is enough for me. I moved from Linux Mint to Devuan due to this. Systemd is getting the Identity Verification stuff baked in and most Linux distros are complying, but Devuan EXPLCITLY refused to and they use SysVinit instead of systemd.
Yeah, that’s valid. I’m interested in Alpine Linux and postmarketOS myself, but Devuan is a nice choice as well. Especially since Devuan and also Slackware Linux explicitly said they will refuse to comply with such laws. I liked the Slackware Linux response, which pointed out that such laws are actually unconstitutional in the states.
Valid. I just personally like Debian-based operating systems. Slackware Linux and Alpine Linux are not Debian-based. Devuan is. That is really why I chose them… they are the only Debian-based Linux OS without systemd that explicitly refused compliance.
I have tended to prefer Deiban-based distros too, I just recently found Alpine Linux and have been giving postmarketOS another chance on my Pinephone. But I haven’t switched from PureOS on my Librem 5 yet, and I still rely on debian-minimal templates in Qubes OS (and a few Fedora templates too). I feel like I wanna go with Alpine Linux for qube templates but at the same time worry if it’ll be too much work and time better spent going with Devuan but idk yet. It’s nice that we still have options.
There’s a ton of suggestions and stuff already, so don’t want to add to the noise, but thanks for the work! Had no idea about Artix, and almost installed it because of dinit.
Just wanted to say, KaOS is systemd free, it’s been using dinit for the init system for some time now. It does ship with some standalone systemd components like elogind, but so does Chimera. (also a really good project if anyone wants to check it out, quickly becoming my go-to recommend).
Oh tyvm for the info. I remember seeing progress on that front. Nice to see they did it. I shall add that to the small list of changes I plan to make. I will of course obsess over it for a while before considering the changes done. As is tradition ^^ Oh and no worries about commenting wherever. No such thing as noise if it’s in a meme thread :p And thank you for the praise 🩷
This is not a tier list. This is a chart. possibly even an infographic. It resembles a teir list, but that doesn’t make it one.
From wiki/Tier_list
A tier list is a ranking system where items are subjectively arranged in tiers from the best to worst.
…
Idk if it matters, but here’s how I see the tiers:
Qubes OS: S-Tier Advanced: A+ Enhanced: A Minimal: B+ Indie & BSD: B Arch: C+ Debian: C Corpo-ish: D+ Corporate: D Dubious: F Borderline: F- Malware: -F
That doesn’t mean I exclusively use distros from the top tiers. I can’t yet run Qubes OS on a linux phone, but if and when I’m ever able I will absolutely do that. For now, distros like postmarketOS and PureOS are good enough for me, for the phones. OSMC is good for the Vero and devices like it. Generally, the trend is that the higher up in the list you go, the more there is to learn in order to make the best use of the distro selected.
I was getting ready to argue with your interpretation but then I noticed you’re the op 😂
😇 (random mini-rant: omg it’s so much more difficult to respond on fedi than platforms like matrix where i would typically emoji-react without much thought, whereas here i am contemplating the proper way to respond or whether to respond at all, since mbin doesn’t support reacts without making a whole new comment 😖)
Those tiers are weird
as am i
Complicated setup and configuration to best thing to have? Then tiers that just say arch, debian.
And maximally mini
Complicated setup and configuration to best thing to have?
I kinda think so, yeah. Qubes OS is top-tier in my eyes, and is pretty sophisticated (and quite complicated to understand when first starting out with it). From there, Whonix is wonderful (qubes-whonix is the perfect combo), and the other advanced distros are known for their extensive customizibility/configurability (which also makes them pretty complex/complicated). With great power comes great responsibility (to read and learn lots of stuff).
Then tiers that just say arch, debian.
There’s not much to differentiate those distros in my view. Lots of flavours of arch and debian. I see them all similarly. Some users might prefer something like pearOS for an arch-based distro which is styled very similarly to apple operating systems, while some other users might prefer an arch distro like CachyOS which is meant to be optimally performant. But I still see those as comparably arch. Similar with the debian row. The ones which sprout from those rows are the ones which are optimized for security, otherwise they’re all just flavours.
And maximally mini
lol yeah ^^’ See, one of the things is that all of the text has to fit and line up pretty much perfectly, and I’d wanted to keep that one simple and (hopefully) easy to understand. Also, idk, it felt kinda cute. “maximally mini” idk lol
Lineage
Possibly dangerous, best to avoid
[citation needed]
“Possibly” denotes the fact that it depends on the user’s sensibilities.
LineageOS is not degoogled and will connect to google unless properly firewalled, which afaik cannot be done properly on-device. And as another user pointed out, android is under google’s control and doesn’t look like it will last indefinitely. I feel that android itself is a dead-end. Projects like GrapheneOS will have to do a hard fork away from android one day, or they will cease to exist as an option.
But anyway, LineageOS is googled android, and google is a nefarious surveillance advertising corporation. So LineageOS is borderline malware in my eyes.
Feel free to disagree of course. I don’t really care either way. You do you.
If you consider the fact that for some devices it’s available in an unofficial capacity and people choose to run it but also that it still uses Google servers for things like NTP and that there is no guarantee that it’s completely de-googled. It’s understandable… Not to mention that they have an actual risk of stagnation if Google continues to close source more parts of the AOSP…
So, although it could be safe to use now with some modifications, especially in microg and removing any calls to google, it might not be the case in the near future.
Very good points, but I wanna add that since MicroG does make connections to google, I don’t see MicroG as usable either and would place it alongside LineageOS as borderline malware. Phoning home to a nefarious surveillance advertising corporation with bad history is not acceptable to me. The main issue I have with /e/OS (besides being android) is that it has MicroG installed and enabled by default, requiring the user to disable it in order to complete the degoogling of the device*. And it’s also annoying that it cannot be removed. There should be 100% degoogled murena devices which do not ship with that shit installed. Though I’d much prefer to see new Fairphones shipped with postmarketOS as an option, and bonus points for optionally shipping without a cellular modem.
HOPEFULLY. The Fairphone 6+ picks up the work that The Mighty Cat has been doing and adds the missing pieces so that pmOS is a viable option.
Why do people that make stuff like this not just label the logos?? Am I supposed to know the logo for every damn OS ever made? I appreciate you tried to solve this with a list that is just a big wall of text with no good way to connect back to the image, but it still sucks overall.
Thank you!
Beyond 5 logos, this graph is useless to me
Serious reply: That’s understandable. Fun reply: Imagine how useless the emoji version would be to you :p
One problem is that some of the distro names are so long that I’d either have to shrink the text for all names or do it selectively, neither of which feels good to me, so I opted to just not list the names in the image itself (at least not yet). Another thing is that it took so long to align all the other text in the image, and it would devour my time to try adding all of the distro names. Yet another thing, I’m pretty sure I’d have to shrink all of the logos in order to properly fit the distro names, and even slightly altering the size of any logo would mean that I’d have to spend a lot of time realligning them. Did I mention that I made this in a text editor?
Did you forget about Clonezilla, Fedora Silverblue and their other variants?
My personal S-tier is Debian stable.
I’d figured that all of the various flavours of Fedora would be represented by the single Fedora logo in the Red Hat group. I do have Secureblue in a special “Secure Fedora” group in the Enhanced row, since it’s more independent from Red Hat than Fedora itself.
As for Clonezilla, where would you place it? And where would one find an svg of the logo? I did leave out distros for which I could not find an svg logo (except for the few I was able to make myself).
My personal S-tier is Debian stable.
Valid ❤️
Oh, but you have variants of Ubuntu. Do you have them, because there are technically not part of Canonical? This, I would understand.
For me, CloneZilla is a sysadmin tool. Wouldn’t have guessed that they don’t have a SVG version of their logo.
Oh, but you have variants of Ubuntu. Do you have them, because there are technically not part of Canonical?
Yeah, that’s my reasoning for including them and for the row they occupy.
For me, CloneZilla is a sysadmin tool. Wouldn’t have guessed that they don’t have a SVG version of their logo.
I’m not saying they don’t have an svg logo, just that I hadn’t come across it when searching for as many operating system logos as I could find. I had started with distros I’ve used and then worked my way through popular distros. Clonezilla had seemed more of a tool and less of a distro so I hadn’t spent much time searching for its logo. If i were to add it, I’d probably want it in the debian row, which is already quite full.
Nice. It would be good to put the distro name beneath each logo, for people who don’t recognise the logos.
I did include a full list in the original post, organized by row, and placed in a spoilered text-box thing. I had decided not to include the names under the logos because I would have obsessed so much longer if I’d have attempted to do that. As it is, I’d been obsessing with this project for several weeks. Why? idk
Ok, but where is TempleOS?
lol, where’s the svg version of the logo? :p
An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity.
I prefer the term “fool” for this use-case. Similar to this 🏳️⚧️ meme:
Thats a direct quote from the creator of TempleOS
Waydroid is just a container of a slightly modified LineageOS. Why is LineageOS dangerous?
LineageOS is not degoogled and will connect to google unless properly firewalled, which afaik cannot be done properly on-device. Waydroid is basically a containerized LineageOS which can at least be firewalled from the host os, but that’s sub-optimal, which is why I have it one notch above LineageOS.
Doesn’t LinegeOS needs MicroG to have Play Services? I guess it still retains Google DNS, NTP and SUPL.
Yes, the google connectivity is the connectivity stuff like dns and ntp, and yes I think it lacks Play Services and MicroG by default. I just don’t like google connectivity built-in without an easy way to disable it. That’s why I like that projects like /e/OS exist as an easy way for people to get degoogled android (though I prefer linux over android for myself).
Be aware that /e/os just replace Google with their servers. So you must trust them.
Yeah, similar to GrapheneOS in that regard, swapping out google servers for their own for network connectivity checking and related stuff. Though, if you don’t disable MicroG then there are some connections to google, but thankfully MicroG can be completely disabled without issue.
Like I said in another comment somewhere, I trust /e/OS for my parents cuz they want and need something that’s familiar and will work without issues, and I want them to not be pulled into the google/apple blackholes of oblivion. Everything they want and more is available to them through fully FOSS apps from F-Droid, and they have VoLTE, VoWiFi, and the rest of “the basics” fully functioning. I do hope linux mobile will be ready to replace things like /e/OS one day, for people like them.
Greatest piece of ragebait I’ve ever seen on Lemmy so far, well done. I’ll take it personal, therefore, have my downvote.
same
What makes Artix dubious? Genuinely curious because I use it and want to know if I there’s a reason I should reconsider that.
This repo, made in response to another repo, has this bit:
Artix Linux | Developers are openly transphobic
When attempting to click the link to see for myself, I still find that the artix forums are inaccessible, and so I can’t see for myself. I remember seeing something mentioned on a reddit post or forum somewhere about the same sort of thing, which makes me think it’s true. So I placed Artix in the Dubious row to represent my unwillingness to recommend it.
Gross. I’ll check out the link you shared. Might be just the push I need to finally move to Void.
Thanks!
Also check out Chimera Linux, it’s a brilliant project. The lead dev is trans, the package management philosophy is very similar to Void, but with Alpine’s APK instead of XBPS, and Dinit is a damn good init system. Here be dragons, but it remains one of my favorite distros.
First i heard about mullvad now this??? Oh man artix was my go to distro (without systemd) if cachy implements the age verification bs.
Yeah, Mullvad Browser was at the top of my browser tier list, right under Tor Browser, until I came across the controversy. It made me realize that I shouldn’t have corporate stuff go above the corporate row. Corporate doesn’t necessarily mean bad, just that there are inherent risks in projects that are corporate owned/controlled.
I don’t get incorporating open source projects with the values of their developers.
I’m personally moving from Mullvad VPN to Windscribe after the co-owner donation thing. But Mullvad VPN is a service. Mullvad browser is open source, it does not belong to Mullvad.
I also see the same concept applied to the European digital sovereignty movement, “Oh this program is open source buuuuut it’s US based” no it is not. Open source is open source and nothing else.
Being open source doesn’t negate their control over the project. Mullvad ultimately controls the project and the branding for it, as well as advertising for their vpn service within the browser by way of their addon. Some users will continue to use the browser, and that’s fine. Some users will stop using the browser, and that’s also fine. I understand both perspectives. I just can’t recommend it anymore, like how I don’t recommend anything coming from GAFAM. There are alternatives. There always are. Tor Browser remains the best browser anyway.
At the very least, there was this one person, using terms such as “pro - LGBT”, as if being transphobic was a legitimate alternative:
Other than that, these people were really talking around and around, never actually saying much, which is quite typical jargon for bigoted individuals, because naming matters by their names would make them admit their bigotry.
@keiko@fedia.io Let me know if you’d like me to screenshot the whole thread (four pages)!
Thanks for the info and offer, but I’m not really interested in seeing more screenshots from that place. It bothers me that they restricted access to it in the first place, preventing people like me from seeing it directly, and I’d think that if it’s a mischaracterization of the devs that they’d make it known rather than this.
Side note, I also find it concerning that fedi is similarly closing off access. I don’t browse while being logged in, and that means I’m no longer able to browse fedi using any instance of mbin, since they’re all restricted. Most instances of piefed are inaccessible now too, and the ones that aren’t are still useless for accessing posts with more than 99 comments. I’d thought that lemmy was basically dead since a major update a year or so ago made all pages blank, but it seems that there are at least a few instances which are accessible again. I used to be hopeful about fedi but idk anymore.
けいこさん😭❤
Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. 🩷
I’ve not been around fedi long enough to have experienced much of what you describe, but it’s tiresome how gatekeepy and opaque some forums are… 😓
I kinda disappeared from fedi for a long time when I switched to using matrix, but I eventually started browsing again and only recently decided to actually interact. Idk how long this will last for me though, since I generally feel disconnected from this platform and its people. Most people really. I used to see these platforms as possibilities for finding people and building communities, but they all seem more like outlets than anything else. Some users meme, others rant or rage, and it feels like such an emptiness. idk, count this as one of my mini-rants. 🩷
I think I’ve seen enough to know it’s time to pack up and move along. Thanks for offering though!
Hang on let me find my OS so I can figure out how much i respect you /s
