My ex asked me why I never take a vacation and I had to explain to her that the more vacations I take the more likely I am to quit my job and just run into the woods and never come back.
Reminder for everyone that feels like this; you can at least try to change things for yourself. You can try to get a different job, you can try finding a new place to live, you can try a new hobby, try something at least (maybe not drugs though, that’s a start for a rough life). Maybe you don’t succeed now, but by not trying you will definitely be stuck where you are.
Make some plans, dream about stuff, don’t just lie down and let the orphan crushing machine grind you to pieces. Unless you want to, that is
This kind of advice is incredibly infantilizing. Do you think people aren’t trying? Have you considered that people don’t have the opportunity to make those changes due to the material circumstances they are being forced into due to systemic forces beyond their immediate control?
Blaming the individual for being crushed under the weight of systemic violence is such a reductive position to argue from.
The reality is that even if you are stuck and there’s nothing you can do, the only thing keeping you alive might just be the belief that things can still change. To survive in this shitty world one sometimes needs to hear they can infact at least try to affect the world around them, or what else? That there’s no hope and it’s better to just suffer? I’m not saying anyone is at fault for not having the strenght to fight it, or responsible for their troubles because they can’t solve them - maybe they can’t, like I personally can’t. Giving up just changes nothing at all
Depending on your boss, telling your boss could be a good idea. That advice is only good if you trust and like your boss. Otherwise it’s the quickest way to the unemployment line.
I’m still haunted by the coincidence that I was fired days after finally admitting to my mentor that I was feeling burned out for months.
I say “coincidence” because other stuff was happening at the same time and my mentor wasn’t in the same office as me or my supervisor. But I remember, at the end of one week, he told me to reach out to my supervisor and talk to them about maybe getting some extra time off to reset, and, the start of the next week, I got called into the office and let go.
One nice thing about my job is my boss gets it. He can’t do anything about it and is in basically the same boat but he understands how I’m overloaded and going to miss deadlines because I don’t have enough bandwidth to do everything that we’re asked for. As long as I keep him updated on the status of things and prioritize them properly we’re good.
I think it’s natural to want to want to work and be active. It is a behavior that has been reinforced by evolution since we were hunter/gatherers. But, there are certain tasks that have definitely frustrated me.
It’s natural in a survival or creative context where we use our own agency to decide what to work on.
It’s unnatural when we have no agency on the daily and our reward has been abstracted to numbers in a bank account.
Context is irrelevant in my opinion, in the same way that hunger and survival are irrelevant to a dog expressing its prey drive on a plush toy. I also believe we have more agency now than ever; we live in a time when food is abundant, and taking a day or two off might leave you with a smaller paycheck rather than at risk of starving to death. When a job needed to be done thousands of years ago, it was often imperative to the survival of yourself or your community, and not necessarily a matter of choice. Those communities likely also had harsh means of enforcing labor contribution of the able-bodied, consequences exceeding the typical outcome of homelessness that we’re familiar with today, which contributed to this evolution. Those who found work itself to be rewarding were much more likely to survive and reproduce, as opposed to those who only found reward in the outcome of work (food, now money).
If you say or think stuff like this. You have made a wrong choice. Doesn’t mean working in general is a bad thing. It can give purpose. If work is your problem you probably don’t have a job that suits you.
Wanting to live a free and creative life is not how this planet works, sadly, and it won’t ever be like that. So you can either blame everything around you for being shit or take what you can get and make the best of it.
Life sucks, but complaining will not get you anywhere. The fact that you complain, after a holiday, means you have a privilege that many many people don’t even enjoy. Not saying your troubles aren’t true or invalid, but you can definitely improve if you want to.
When the slave claims his chains
So what should one do then? I mean surely you have an answer.
Keep in mind. I am confident that hearing something you don’t like doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Unionize. It’s the only proven way to improve working conditions.
Finally someone actually saying something.
But really just do something. Join a union, point out corruption. It’s great to see so many people disagreeing with my comment just to upvote something absolutely empty but cool sounding like “a slave claims his chains”. There is no slave here, don’t make me look like a victim of a system I’m not a part of.
I truly feel like people here just want to whine about “the system” but don’t dare speak up or do something about it. You have the power to change it. If you don’t make that choice, then start accepting it. At least then you don’t have to spend so much time on the internet whining about how hard it is to work after a holiday.
To be honest, I upvoted that too but can understand you’re looking for something more concrete. They’re referring to wage slavery, but awareness and unionization are each just one step towards abolishing it.
I think it’s fair to vent and complain. Not everybody who identifies a problem needs to have an answer.
Just because you dont like what you see, doesn’t mean you should try to find rational justifications to it. There are not.
What is to be done, indeed
because when you’re at work you’re just a cog in the machine. it’s because capitalism is shit also humans didn’t evolve to wake up so early to go to work either
That’s because capitalism is bullshit thats been shoved down our throats our entire lives. And we bought it for a long time. We are only just beginning to realize how fucked capitalism has made our systems.
To be fair, some figured this out ages ago. But it’s been more and more obvious lately, so more and more people are catching on.
and they are willing to change what?
Absolutely nothing. Human beings are livestock.
The topics of discussion.
We can now shift the topic from asking “What is causing all of our problems?” to asking questions like, “What would a post-capitalist economy look like?” "What is the most effective and least damaging way to dismantle capitalism and agree upon another governing system?
There is a theory called circular economy which is an alternative for the current economic structure. it would also destroy capitalism at the same time.
i am very much in favor of cradle to cradle
Low stakes mutual aid is a good start. My friends and I have started doing work trades for each other. Mow the lawn, turn over a garden, help with technical problems – that sort of thing.
Another good trick is having a “neighbourhood tools” spreadsheet and sharing it with as many people in the neighbourhood as possible. For instance, I don’t need the lawnmower every day of the week, so why should we each have our own? Just come borrow it and update the spreadsheet with who’s house it’s at. Rare tools like the neighbourhood ladder have been passed around, away from their original house for so long, that they’re basically communal.
i’d love that. discussions are great.
just as a game of thought i’d like to point to hans rosling real quick here!
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are you for a more or less fair/just world?
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how many ppl on this planet have access to a washing machine?
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are you willing to give up your washing machine now that you know there are not enough resources for a washing machine for every human and you wanting a fair world?
i do not take yes for an answer here as extensive studies show not even the left in the west that owns a washing machine would be willing to live without one.
still making up shit like sharing a washing machine? just wait until your find out about cars or fridges.
what i am trying to say is that i doubt the discussion can and will take place. your suggested topics would be nice…but ppl.
The answer to those questions is yes and you can go fuck yourself for assuming otherwise. Projection much?
Here is the major flaws in your argument and those studies. You frame the argument to imply that people would have to “live without a one” yet fail to understand that no one ever said you had to go without. You have just as much access to a washing machine as anyone else. So the very premise of your argument is made in bad faith.
Secondly, there are alternatives to cars. Ever heard of a bus? Trains? Walkable urban design that existed for all of human history before the advent of car-centric culture?
Fridges, why would you need a fridge if you could walk down to the local grocer and just grab what you need because your city has been redesigned with walkability in mind to ensure your necessities are never more than a 15 minute bike ride away?
What you’re trying to say is a load of bullshit that makes a lot of ill informed assumptions about people alongside a complete misunderstanding of different structures of ownership and how they would function.
Our current, hyper-individualist culture is an incredibly new phenomenon and only exists as a result of the system we live under. Do you also think it is in a bear’s nature to ride a unicycle just because you’ve only ever seen them perform in a circus?
LOL
We have seen over and over that we can have a sustainable, industrialized world. The poorest people in the world have washing machines and refrigerators. I highly encourage anyone who thinks in terms of basic conveniences to travel to poor places and see what their quality of life is compared to the US or Europe, it’s often eye-opening and makes you rethink what we’re focusing on.
The problem isn’t that we need to give up conveniences, it’s that the people who produce our conveniences are treating their relationship with us like drug dealers or pimps. They produce inferior products designed to break and in return they continually raise prices, and create marketing campaigns that mislead and influence people, they find ways to exploit workers at a GRAND scale, all while funneling MASSIVE amounts of our wealth upwards and outside of our communities, and even that would be almost be solvable if they didn’t then compile all their wealth and resources to influence politics to deregulate their own industries.
The “Oh you want socialism? Are you ready for bread lines??” responses to a public outcry for more fair systems or safety nets are tired relics from Ronald Reagan’s era.
Actual post-capitalism society would be nearly unimaginable in today’s world, people who think we’re going to topple capital in our lifetimes are delusional. BUT we can go a lot further towards mitigating the damage it’s doing.
We can create amendments to our constitutions that set in stone fair practices in business, lending and truth in media among other desperate needs for overhaul. We can set corporate tax rates where they were in the 50’s when we had a boom in American wealth, we can break up monopolies in smart ways that don’t kill jobs but instead shift ownership and thus revenue towards localities that need it. We can incentivize worker-cooperatives and provide subsidies for companies that stick to fair practices and are putting actual wealth back into communities.
We could create a semi-post-capitalist first-world if we all really wanted to, but the forces of capital have already dumbed our population down into a herd of consuming livestock that shriek bloody murder whenever someone threatens regulations on business. We need generations of concerted effort to undo the damage that Reagan and his fellows have left us.
The poorest people in the world have …
Misinformation
Bruh thinks that the people so poor they dont even have access to clean water and safe living conditions have washing machines and fridges. lol
This is going to blow your mind, but average household appliances only cost a fortune when you’re buying them in a place that expects you to spend a fortune. None of this actually costs much money to produce anymore, so no, restricting unlimited growth isn’t going to force you to get a washboard and bucket to do your laundry.
I would challenge you to go visit average towns in places like Indonesia, India, Philippines and look at how everyone has a phone, a computer, televisions and microwaves.
Yes, clean water and even consistent electricity is always a struggle, but again, these places are poor as shit, but they have the things we depend on for our modern lifestyles, and your image of what worldwide poverty looks like is massively biased by capital who wants you to fear being without it. It’s like an abusive partner who makes you think you’ll never do better than them.
Imagine if the US or UK, places with incredible wealth, resources and infrastructure, were to give people their basic needs, AND offer clean water and health care.
are you willing to give up your washing machine now that you know there are not enough resources for a washing machine for every human and you wanting a fair world?
This is a strawman, or… something similar. No one who wants a more just world is proposing that we get there by reducing the quality of life for large segments of the world’s population.
A more reasonable allegory would be “are you willing to make it so that no one can own a yacht, so that everyone can own a washing machine?”
Because we absolutely do have the resources to get everyone a washing machine, they’re just not evenly distributed.
As this’ll track with reality too, because the people who would say “no” are the people who own yachts and, yeah…those people are the reason we don’t have a more just world.
Capital has painted for people this image of poverty that is meant to terrify people into thinking they can’t have good things without it.
It’s really like an abusive partner who wants to control you by making you think you’ll never do better. I would challenge bozos like you replied to, to actually go visit impoverished and developing nations and see how even the poorest people aren’t lacking connection and conveniences, but they are lacking access to other basic necessities like water and healthcare.
Washing machines only cost a fortune if they expect you to be able to pay a fortune. Our image of standing in line for bread under a socialist system was painted by Reagan and we never let it go, because everyone who wants to make a lot of money helped him preserve that fear.
The thing is with something like a yacht in your example, that producing one creates a lot of work. Not saying that we shouldn’t make it impossibile, just maybe make it so you can’t use it as a tax write off. I know that’s what we did in NL.
Edit: people working in a business making yachts wouldn’t want a rule that would disallow people to own yachts since they would be out of a job and generally people vote for their own interests first.
Sure but if you re-allocating all of the resources that went into the yacht, that includes labor, the jobs. I haven’t suggested doing less stuff, I’ve suggested doing the same amount of stuff, but distributing it equitably.
we dont. read factfulness by hans rosling. we do not.
A quick search led me to an estimate of 1.5 billion washing machines in existence in 2018, which works out to one for every 5 or 6 people.
I live in a small apartment building with 6 residents and one washing machine. So here I am, in the developed and privileged West, living under global average washing machine conditions.
I remain convinced that the problem is not scarcity, but inequality.
I’d like to think that I would give up my laundry machine, but probably not without some major rebalancing of life and work expectations.
If I was told that I could work 20hrs/week, but I had to give up my washing machine, I’d probably take that trade.
Going back to the questions, those were just some examples, depending on how far along in the discussion we are. Perhaps the right question to discuss next is something along the lines of: “What would it take for people to start having these discussions, and what can we do to achieve them?”
It would help if some countries (like the US) would have more options for people to vote on and have it so people can make themselves voteable more easily. Not saying that you should go to the route we in NL have, but it would help to have more countries be compromised focussed.
agreed.
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Change where you buy shit from. Instead of going to Amazon, go to something more local. Instead of taking the car and buying more gas take the bike. Instead of buying something new, repair something you already have or buy something scond hand. Etc.
that’d be cool. you think its going to happen?
What? People ditching crap like Amazon? Yes it’s altready happening because people release that it’s just crap anyway and the local alternatives are better. In my area they even deliver faster ….
so the amazon stocks are falling? or do you mean the new temu customers? can you show me numbers that indicate ppl stop buying shit?
You realise that there is more than crap dropshippers like Amazon, Temu, Aliexpress etc? Due to Trump being elected there is an increase amount of people who prefer to buy European, so in NL/BE more people are choosing something like Bol.com (Since Amazon’s introduction in NL also has dropshippers on the platform). This sub hass been growing a lot and there have been European stores who have also been noting what products are European and what not. At the same time news outlets in Europe have been covering the influx of interest of people who are willing to skip on American products. https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1jjjxuc/how_much_has_this_sub_grown_in_the_last_few_months/
Yes a lot of people still order from Amazon and from Temu. Heck Temu is one of the most downloaded apps in multiple European countries. I don’t have exact numbers and the lack of transparancy of American companies doesn’t help.
We’re all waiting for you to lead the way.
That’s a nice tu quoque you just made there.
And what case were they attempting to make there?
Their comment is a variation of this comic.
nope. youre not. ignorance is bliss. so you go and keep doing stuff like “thoughts and prayers” “stand together” etc. which from what my history books say never did shit. but at least for a brief moment you got dopamin. congratz. go pat yourself on the shoulder. YOU deserve it.
Message understood captain. We blame others for not doing the very things we’re not doing but that our opposition is doing. This will make our opposition think we’re with them.
Brilliant! No one will see us not coming!
----- alternative response ----
You have the best history book everyone is saying it. People come up all the time and say, that guys has all the best history books. And it’s true. Other history books, fake news! Written by loses. Yours, all the greatest moments! Everyone’s talking about it. Nobody’s seen anything like it before it!
Especially the consumerism part of it and the want for more every year. More salary, more profit etc is just an unrealistic growth issue… Especailly the Anglo-Saxon mindset is doomed to fail for companies since they mostly do profit maximisation. The Rheinland model companies generally care more about the people working there and know they need them. Sadly, there are some people who are actively against supporting companies who have trouble surviving in the current climate. Often because they give more about the customers/clients and their personal.
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I worked in the retail mines for years because I was good at it.
Look for a job in a municipality in customer service. City jobs pay better than retail, have WAY better benefits and hours, and you are contributing to your community society instead of shareholder value.
I got an entry-level permit tech job, and 6 late4 I was promoted. A year later I was approached by another city for a higher-paying position.
Within 2 years of starting city life, I made 4 times what I did in retail, had all medical premiums covered by the city (and even any out-of pocket expenses such as copays after the first $500/year), had a pension contribution double-matched by the city, 17 paid holidays, a month of vacation, a month of sick leave, comp time, and the contributions I make to the city will last for a century or more.
I even get a $300/month stipend for gas and $80/month for a second cell phone for checking emails without making my main phone discoverable in Open Records. I’m not required to use the second phone after hours, so it’s easy to just turn it off over the weekend and ignore work.
All while getting to provide customer service to people who aren’t just trying to buy stuff.
Living the good life. Very jealous.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=municipal+job+listings
this is one of the top results: https://www.governmentjobs.com/
good luck, i hope you find one that suits you!
I was one of like 3 applicants for the first city job I got.
But even the guys mowing the parks make decent money and have all the same benefits.
You might try looking into nonprofits. There are a lot of retail-like positions in that area, where the hands-on part and people interactions are similar but with a different feel and sense of purpose.
TBH this seems like a great motivation to make changes in your life. Somebody who is in a position to take vacations probably has that option more than the people at the absolute bottom layer of the capitalism heap.
Am I the only one who likes his job? I was working for 10+ years in media creation without a proper education in that field. With 37 I changed everything and did an 3 year apprenticeship. 3 days working and 2 days school (with others around half my age). And now I work as a Web developer in the same small company (9 people) and couldn’t be happier. We do only WebDev and no design or marketing. Ok, maybe a tiny amount of design and marketing. Many of our clients like that we are more technical than the regular webdesign agency. I have at least 30 days vacation, nice office in the middle of the city and a rather medium pay but if there is no emergency or time critical project, I can go to my boss and say: “I’m bored. I take the afternoon off.” I won’t get rich working there, but the fact that I look forward for my work and know work drama only by stories of others, is worth it for me. And that it’s just 10min by foot from apartment to office is nice too. I’m so grateful that I am so lucky to find the right job and company.
I’ve been both. I hated every job I was forced to get in my 20s and 30s, but now that I’m a little more experienced I’ve finally got one of those rare interesting jobs.
I can’t help but imagine how much more productive our economy would be if everyone had this luxury of the job they actually want. I was spending a ton of time/effort on looking busy because I hated working. Now the day just flies by and I have to manage my time carefully.
When you take a step back and just look at the whole thing, it’s staggering how much time and effort we just fucking waste. We can start building a paradise for humans tomorrow, even while dealing with climate change. We’re not just on the brink of collapse - we’re on the brink of utopia. Humanity is ready for a change.
I love my job. Its challenging, and at time stressful, but I love it.
I believe in the company I work for and the products we make.
It’s a large company, and yet all the employees are just wonderful people, my team and department in particular.
It took me a lot of hard work and many years to reach this point, but it was worth it.
Don’t have any degrees, but I have “or equivalent experience” across multiple disciplines which add up to a pretty unique position I basically designed for myself.
Yes. I’m equally happy with my life work balance but I also understand this is the exception and not the rule so am always willing to lend an ear to anyone that wants to complain about their situation.
Same with any struggles one might have, socioeconomic conditions are not something any fellow worker controls.
I do draw the line at self inflected drama from anyone stuck in denial. Those people need to finish their spiral first.
I hope I didn’t came off as if I had no empathy. Of course I had shitty jobs in the past and can relate to the soul draining effects. Only because I am in a good place now, doesn’t mean that I forget how fucked up work (or life in general) can be. And I hope I didn’t came of as self centered ass with main character syndrome. I’m more the opposite of that. It’s quite rare that I voice my opinion or just write/post something online. I even feel bad about this and the last comment. Sorry if I came over to harsh or self centered.
Nope, you’re good.
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The good news is that, with the rise of robotics and AI. We will all have to work in politics.
F7u12
Last time I was on holiday to the extent that I could unwind, de-stress, hear myself think I concluded that I did not want to go back. I contacted a former coworker just to get some feelers out there about how the industry was doing. Before my holiday was over I had a signed job offer, and I resigned as soon as I got back to the stressful job.
Lesson learned: Give your employees perpetual emergency brain with no time to step back and reflect. Otherwise they could start to evaluate their situation and whether they really need to stay.
I’m curious, how long did it take you to come to that conclusion?
I just took two days off leading into last weekend. It was great having the time off, but it pales in comparison to how much time off I have now.
I got fired from my job on monday morning as my first meeting of the day.
Maybe my next job will involve fire.
I just came back from a movie festival where I volunteered and my work there was more fulfilling and meaningful than my everyday job
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