Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585
Ban from that community, memes@lemmy.ml:
Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.
Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:
Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:
It’s not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.
I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don’t want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that’s not the case in any of the communities I’ve been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.
PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.
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@calmblue75@lemmy.ml explained why your comments were being perceived as problematic but you didn’t didn’t read the room. You might actually be in agreement with the community, but your choice of words reads as “a little genocide is acceptable.”
All genocide is unacceptable. All mass murder is unacceptable. Putting the unacceptable onto a scale of better or worse is a liberal propaganda tactic that doesn’t fly in leftist spaces. Your mistake was conflating the concept of “voting to minimize harm in a captured system” with “my genocide is more ethical than their genocide,” which is a fallacy. No genocides are ethical.
isn’t making the minimally harmful choice always ethical?
i think it’s about morality than ethics but ethics and economics (ironically) used to be connected, and part of the same discipline. Economics being quantifiable theories, and ethics being unquantifiable.
In this case, you could easily say any genocide is infinitely bad. So comparing one genocide to two genocides isn’t really possible… it’s an unquantifiable loss.
however in this case, in the captured system where two parties are pretty much the only possible winner, we can make an ethical argument for voting for the “lesser genocide”, but really only because they’re both propping up the same genocidal regime, but one is much more into it, wants to develop buildings where the people were, as well as wage other genocides.
besides, it’s much better to be able to protest without being labeled a terrorist and disappeared to some secret, third world torture prison (like cecot and liberia).
it’s really hard to think of a worse president.
i don’t see how “i want to stop this genocide and others” translates into “a little genocide is okay”. Or normalizing genocide…
i remember shortly before they switched from biden to harris, harris released a statement about protestors calling them all antisemitic and completely ignoring what they were actually protesting, and i hate her with all of my heart for that.
but she never wanted to arrest them and deport them to a foreign torture prison for life.even in math, some infinities are greater than others. I’ve seen interviews with palestinians that said they’d prefer Harris for the same reasons.
like if someone said they’ll either shoot you or stab you and you get to choose, you wouldn’t say nothing because that makes a little bit of stabbing okay.
I think the problem is that certain users chose to scape goat voters. In the end, not voting for genocide and voting for less genocide can both be seen as ethical. In either case, what followed is entirely the fault of the party that pushed the genocide as their main platform point even if it was clearly deeply unpopular and frankly ghoulish.
I think it’s also wrong to assume the dems would have done the genocide “better” than trump, and kind of silly to even present as an argument. Both are clearly in Israel’s pocket and even a little genocide (it would have been a lot under both imo) is really messed up.
The scapegoating also minimizes the genocide. Implying it should have been overlooked is softening it and what I consider Israeli propagada. It turns it into a voting issue, something we can decide on instead of what it is, essentially the world’s greatest evil.
I guess the best is to understand that it was a complex situation, but that it isn’t up to voters to change what they can stomach but up to the dems to take the genocide out of the equation. Blaming voters sends the opposite message.
This is the best response I’ve ever seen in relation to the constant voter-blaming.
I agree. In this case I think it was unfortunate wording that was perceived to carry a different meaning than intended. With discussions like this, especially among leftists, “less bad” or “less harmful” is preferred over “better,” since that carries some implied support.
Guy came here to complain about how he was banned for electoralist garbage and he ended up getting banned for electoralist apologia. YDM troll.
1000% YDI.
After seeing your reactions to mild criticism to millionaires who don’t care about you, you deserve more. Fuck off you diet fascist.
Edit: VGA, if you’re going to downvote everyone here, you could explain why you think people are wrong.
DNC are subhuman trash that promote zionist supremacist first rule over the US for 90% of their candidates. True demonic evil that also serves corporatist/oligarchist power. GOP are far worse. Total zionist supremacists with added focus of Zionist first christofascism and white supremacism. Corporatist/Oligarchist supremacism is even stronger than incumbent power protection. All in on dead ender climate terrorist energy, and overt war goals to increase oil profits in complete lockstep with deranged lunatic in chief.
There absolutely is a big difference in voting block power, and in minimizing the oppression level of Americans. You should still vote for the lesser subhuman demonic zionazi evil.
There is strong potential for primary campaigns to oppose Israel supremacism of candidates, and even if opponents get 100x more funding, their demonic zionazi allegiances could theoretically harm their vote totals.
What did you expect by going to .ml instance and try to set a point that goes against the community’s ideology? You thought you’d change their minds? Convert them?
To put it simply, what would you expect to happen if you would go to Star Wars forum and told them that Star Wars is shit and Star Trek is better?
They like many others wanted to get banned to show how terrible it is they won’t allow op to be awful to others
you coming here to expect people to be on your side and it’s going horribly also. you pathetic libs are just as bad as the conservatives. you uphold the same systems and parties that enable this shit to happen.
8
It’s dot ml communities. Fuckem.
I’ve mostly blocked .ml instances. They’re super toxic and not really open to discussion at all. I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
lemmy.ml is an instance well-known for being, shall we say… unreasonable when it comes to politics.
The admins and a large portion of the user base are tankies— people who claim to be extreme leftists/communists but really worship the likes of Stalin, Xi and the oppressive authoritarian government of regimes, such as the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea. They are very much intolerant any criticism whatsoever or anyone else’s political views. Unfortunately, the administrators of that instance are also the main developers for Lemmy itself.
This is why
the code has been forked to another platformalternatives to lemmy have been developed, such as PieFed, which is federated and interoperates with Lemmy, and is not dependent on the crazy ass developers. It also has better mod and admin features. but even if you don’t wanna switch to PieFed, you can at least avoid communities on Lemmy.ml. I have the whole instance blocked.piefed is not a fork, it’s a completely different codebase. with plenty of its own problems.
oh, my mistake. with a quick google, I see that it’s python, not rust, so yeah, obviously not a fork. my mistake!
did you also see the opinionated parts? if you enable the default filter list piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities and enables built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts. it also keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
truly everything is political.
Oh, damn, that “user quality” metric is really messed up
It’s also fake.
It’s a misunderstanding of a setting admins can enable that makes it so meme communities don’t add to your karma. That way, you can’t karma farm by posting memes.
I’m a piefed admin and My instance has that setting disabled because I like memes.
Not fake when it’s in documented code anyone can read, and the creator explicitly states it’s fine.
yeah, I don’t really consider those to be the “problems” others do, especially since instance admins can simply disable those features.
Same. And like you said its easy to remove for instances. I think its like the third screen when you set up the instance. Im having a wonderful time on piefed and a couple of my PRs were accepted no fuss.
of course they can, just like how the ml admins can choose not to have their weird swearing filter that nobody else uses. but it’s still in there and that’s what they thought communities wanted. eg, that’s what they wanted for their community. point being, no codebase is neutral and i don’t know the intent of the piefed dev either.
ok, but, again, I don’t view what the piefed dev did as problematic. the lemmy devs? I do find them problematic for many reasons, including the ones I’ve already mentioned.
so, enough with the whataboutisms
it’s not a counter-accusation trying to paint one in a better light than the other. i want none of it, and the fact that the bias is apparently okay as long as the politics are aligned feels pretty shit.
piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities
Fake news
built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts
Based
keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
Fake news.
I’m a PieFed admin and I’ve read some of the source code, ask Me anything.
so have i, it’s in there. again, the filter is not on by default but the preset blocklist includes those communities. and it’s called “reputation” in the code.
https://piefed.social/c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
This is lemmyshitpost, a meme community, as viewed from piefed.world. It is also proof that piefed doesn’t hide meme communities.
it’s only proof that that specific instance hasn’t enabled the setting to do so.
Piefed isn’t a fork, it’s a completely different piece of software using the same protocol.
I don’t think the Lemmy Devs have much to do with the bans on that server, it’s mostly the community mods.
Dessalines does bans like this all the time.
I’ve said before that if Dessalines spent half as much time developing the platform instead of banning people for wrongthink, Lemmy would be a much better platform.
Lemmy donations are a scam. People give them all that money, and they use the money to hire full time developers, who spend all day banning people instead of writing code.
I’m not sure where I heard it was a fork, but I’m obviously misremembering.
fixed
It’s an easy mistake to make, I only know they’re different because piefed is python while Lemmy is rust.
I’m sure I forgot because I’m pretty baked right now, lol
I thought that was more limited to lemmygrad, sad to see.
oh, no… lemmygrad is just much, much worse. also avoid hexbear. it’s like lemmygrad x 4chan
Removed by mod
Yeah just avoid communities on that instance and you’ll be fine.
whaaaat the fuuuuck
oh, then there’s this bit from you:
why would Democrats not be the clear superior if only because they don’t cause needless suffering to interior minorities?
tell us you’re a white male without telling us. you are so out of touch with reality, it’s a wonder you can tie your fucking shoes.
PTB or triggered shitlib?
motherfucker, YOU are the triggered shitlib.
I don’t know what people expect will happen when they go into leftist communities or even just communities run by leftists and start spouting shitlib electoralist apologia.
The same thing the DNC expects when they trot out their chosen candidate at the behest of the donors instead of a popular progressive
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i’m not gonna dignify this nonsense with a retort
Yes, assuming Democrats and Republicans have 100% identical foreign policy, and the only difference is less oppression on marginalized groups, why does that not make them the clear superior choice in a two party election? Why are you willing to let more suffering happen because the lesser evil isn’t lesser enough?
If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn’t actually reduced in the long run.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal. The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal
Irrelevant, I don’t care why they lost, I’m asserting that they would have been better. Thank you for your soapbox though.
The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide
Sure, but those voters are also to blame for the non-genocide issues which get worse when the Democrats lose.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
This is simplistic thinking which ignores the reality of the situation. The only thing a voter can do in a general election is pick the party that more closely aligns with their values, that does not mean ALL of the party’s values are the voters, but simply the more palatable one.
So yeah, genocide sucks, but not doing your electoral part means all the extra bullshit Republicans do[1] is what you voted when you abstain.
1: since clearly the people who have problems with what I say don’t care about minorities being harassed, kidnapped, and killed, I’ll keep it simple with “doing nothing about the climate catastrophe” and “being egregiously pro-business/anti-consumer,” maybe with a side of “overwhelmingly anti-labor.”
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
Oh thank you for asking, I have actually.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
Are you like some rich white guy who has no working class friends or something? I genuinely don’t understand.
mate. i appreciate you being open and proving that banning you was the correct choice.
who exactly began the mass deportations? how I live the free healthcare that Biden gave us instead of funding a genocide.
people like you is exactly why this nation is now a fascist shithole.
who exactly began the mass deportations?
clinton. obama started the concentration camps that trump is now sending families to.
what, you thought democrats were somehow better on immigration? clinton deported two million more people than bush did. obama changed the system to favor speed over fairness, resulting in record numbers of deportations. most of whom were not dangerous to anyone. every time we get a democratic president, they use the tools republicans created to drastically increase the suffering of minorities, and increase state surveillance of americans while decreasing civil rights.
the whole system is rotten to the core
I think you might be replying to the wrong user, though OP got instance banned, so I think they can’t hear you anyways
sorry, I might have misclicked.
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
How sheltered are YOU? America is a conservative country and things change slowly, but they do change. Some thing have improved in my lifetime, I don’t think that’s a controversial statement. Just because capitalism hasn’t been completely overthrown yet doesn’t mean there is no change.
I’m a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that. Some things have improved, but many more significant things have gotten worse. The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
TVs are cheaper, but food, rent and childcare are more expensive, all relative to wages, just for an example.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
I’m a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Thanks for your work! I was in a union all the way up until I retired last year. They are becoming more and more rare these days, sadly.
Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Well, except the acceptance of queer people, of course. Women’s lib is also much more widely accepted, if we’re going that far back.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that
Nobody except you?
The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
I don’t disagree.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
I do unskilled labor.
Strawman much?
No, I try not to. How do you think I’ve misrepresented them?
lmao shut your fucking mouth about suffering, you piece of shit. you don’t get to lecture people about suffering after saying shit like that, you disgusting liberal asswipe.
Cope and seethe, you dehumanize people for ideological purposes, your boos mean nothing.
which is why you ran here to complain about getting banned, you shitlib. you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities.
you will never be a good person.
Wow, what an insufferable goof.
Hope things get better and/or you grow out of it.
grow out of hating fascists? not likely.
The person you’re being an asshole at is clearly not a fascist.
It seems like you’re angry, want an excuse to shit on people and are wrapping it in politics you don’t seem to understand.
Like I said, hope you grow out of it or things get better.
Wanting things to be better for marginalized people does not a fascist make.
you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities
Umm honey you’re the one unconcerned with minorities suffering. Are you feeling okay? You’re clearly having issues projecting.
don’t call people “honey” unless you want to catch a instance ban. I’m not your fucking honey.
Oh my bad, shitlib motherfucker. How many marginalized lives have you made worse today?
I can’t actually see what your [deleted] comments say but even if they were objectionable to their rules in that community, revoking your access to other communities entirely irrelevant to memes@lemmy.ml seems completely PTB.
Especially as you’ve got BrainInTheBox there running rampant, as usual.
IIRC, on lemmy instances, there is no actual “instance-wide ban” feature. to do a ban like that, you have to get banned from all of the communities you’re subscribed to via some scripted tool, so this is how it shows up. this is one of the improvements the platforms like mBin and PieFed have included in their code. apparently, it’s still “coming soon” in Lemmy’s code.
Yes, it is possible abbotsbury copped an instance ban and thus was banned from all lemmy.ml communities they had previously posted to. Note that the weird way instance bans are handled has been solved on Piefed.
I didn’t know Mbin also did it though.
Lemmy 1.0 addresses the issue, when it comes out instance bans on Lemmy will work the same way they do on Piefed now.
Lemmy 1.0 will come out the same day China achieves communism.
That’s nearly as far away as the day the Democrats listen to non voters
exactly. as I have never run a lemmy instance, I don’t know what the admin tools look like, but I read someone describe it in a comment here several weeks ago.
Yeah BitB was pretty crazy, seemingly waiting around to reply instantly up and down the thread even when I was replying to others.
Its absolutely hilarious that there are two types of people in this thread, people who read your comments and people who see ml so assume it must be a PTB. How about you make it easier for everyone and post those offending comments?
People would rather just say ml bad then do any reflection on what’s going on around them. Especially when it requires them to change views
You could convince the vast majority of .world users to unilaterally agree with a hardcore Nazi if you said “look these evil ml tankies just censored a poor innocent liberal”
I mean, it works well enough for the liberals. I’d say about 60% of band from .ml are deserved, and the 40% is bullshit.
But .world and MWoG think that if you were banned for advocating for America to invade places to “liberate” them, you’re actually a victim.
Or simply say nazis shouldn’t exist. They come out of the woodwork to say stop calling those you don’t like nazis on posts saying nothing but no nazis 🤷🙃
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you don’t need to be here. you can just leave.
But then They couldn’t troll for a response.
holy based
The mods didn’t seem to think so.
The source was based, the meme was not.
