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It’s pretty easy for the alt-right if men are constantly attacked and branded as “the problem”. How are you going to persuade somebody by starting with “you’re the problem”, “check your privilege”, “#AllYourGroup”, and so on? It’s like walking up to a Christian and shouting “God doesn’t exist!”, “Your belief is killing us all!”, “Religion is cancer, how can you believe in it?”, etc.
I think there’s a void for masculinity and these people are just exploiting it.
Yep
I’m more and more realizing that left wing politics and non-toxic masculinity have a communication problem more than anything.
The right wing politicians near me are putting up angry YouTube videos every few days. They don’t promise any real solutions, but they say “we hear your pain, support us and we’ll support you”, and to a lot of struggling people that’s all they need to hear to support them.
For traditional masculinity, when I was younger I did have to try and figure that meant in my world. In todays world you hear a lot about toxic masculinity and how awful the patriarchy is, and for young not rich men it just sounds exclusionary. Then you have influencers like Tate going around saying it’s okay to want fast cars and be “manly”, and that society is forgetting you, so you need to grab what you can. Unfortunately his version of manliness is frankly weak and vapid and sexist, but he’s the only one teaching young men who are struggling.
The algorithms and hours of social media the average person browses daily make this so much worse, but we need more people just reaching out and acknowledging the pain people are feeling, and only then can we start building each other back up in a healthy way.
It’s difficult to persuade people to your lifestyle, and your point of view, if you’r starting position is that their brainwashed if they don’t agree with you.
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s a matter of persuasion. It’s a personal growth impairment they will have to resolve for themselves.
All young men have a version of this. It’s a shame it’s being encouraged by grifters, but what can you do.
I’m confused, you down vote me, meaning I didn’t contribute to the discussion to your standard, but you provided a thoughtful comment.
Hostility isn’t a great way to build dialog.
Your contributions to this thread seem to be very grievance-focused. In the context of this topic, that seems relevant.
Is it something you wish to discuss?
If we want people to behave differently we would find more success by not starting with the premise they are brainwashed. That is my thesis.
What about “tricked”? Or calling men currently in the grifter cycle a “mark”
You have been tricked, you have been conned - Both statements put people on the back foot.
It’s more persuasive to talk about what objectives and outcomes people want, and advocate for the best path to getting those outcomes. Jumping to a interpretive conclusion is the rhetorically going up hill, because you haven’t communicated and persuaded the other party to arrive at the conclusion organically.
Depends on who you’re talking to. For people who are egotistical and lack introspection, I agree with you. For people who are humble and critical of their own thoughts and behavior, then being blunt can be helpful because it initiatives the cognitive dissonance.
Unfortunately, the Gen Z’ers who are falling for this manosphere bullshit are likely egotistical, so may be it would be better to not be blunt. These guys obviously don’t do to well with cognitive dissonance; hence why they’d rather believe that cisgendered “manly” men are the victims rather than accept a different (and more correct) model of reality.
“A real man takes care of everyone” pretty good shit. It gets a little preachy after that though. Kinda weird they’re making demands of men after divulging they’re nonbinary but amab I guess.
Men need to be taught that the riches and success they were promised by people born before the 1970’s was stolen from them from current billionaire class. But they’ll have to learn it when they lose social security and healthcare. Tough break, I was rooting for them there for a while.
Nonbinary folks are in a unique position to comment on the definition of “being a man” or “being a woman”.
I imagine that it is kinda like asking a person who is mixed race (white and black) about their view on racism in America. At some point in time, a mixed race person finds a way to reconcile the cognitive dissonance that occurs when discussing race, since they have family members they love on both sides of the spectrum.
