Context: I made a poll on PieFed about the new post flairs (so if you are one of the few hundred people who have a PieFed account, follow that link and answer there). Unfortunately Lemmy has neither polls nor post flairs, so this post is to open up the discussion to the wider Fediverse, or rather the subset of it that encompasses Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed, which is called… what exactly?
Is Threadiverse too traumatic & tainted by association with Meta’s (all but entirely defunct) Threads? Is The Verse too cool/poetic/nerdy (but niche) to be understood? I highly advise against Lemmyverse bc mainstream normal people are far less tolerant of tankies than we who are here are willing to put up with. Simply listing the software available sometimes is the best option - like the Interstellar app supports all of Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed, but most support at best 1 or 2 of those - but usually is too long to say and does not roll off the tongue, plus will just keep growing as time goes on. Is Forumverse thus the least bad of the available options, or perhaps you have a better idea? 💡
Anyway, the start to a listing:
- Threadiverse
- Forumverse
- (The) Verse
- Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed
- Something else?
As the creator of Mbin I’m also calling it Threadiverse.
@melroy Unfortunately, as I explained elsewhere, the problem is that Meta has now “infected” the word thread.
For this reason I would propose #topicverse also because in fact, it is not so much the “thread” that characterizes the Lemmy/xBin/Piefed/BBCode environment, but the ability to immediately identify the “topics”. In fact, Mastodon also has the thread, even if it is unwatchable, but the topic display is only available in some software (and some apps like Raccoon for Friendica, which allow you to view the topics of activitypub groups also on Mastodon)@melroy@kbin.melroy.org NodeBB here, agreed.
It really is the most succinct nickname to describe the type of software we are… and I feel that outweighs possible association with Threads.
I follow you now :)
Thank you for weighing in, this is quite helpful! 🙏
Lemmy Federate also says this:
1: Threadiverse refers to Fediverse software that implements “FEP-1b12: group federation”. For example, Lemmy, Mbin, Guppe, NodeBB and others…
Maybe try to get a piefed namedrop there?
I noticed PieFed.social on page 9, and the link is functional, even though next to it the status says “disabled”.
That site doesn’t seem very trustworthy. I wonder if it is measuring how “Lemmy-like” an instance is? Anyway I’ve never heard of that site before, but passing the note to @rimu@piefed.social anyway in case it helps:-).
It’s run by an instance admin. I wanna say lemy.lol?
even though next to it the status says “disabled”.
I believe that just means piefed.social isn’t participating in the service.
Edit: is that right, @iso@lemy.lol?
Yes, it is just disabled. Lemmy Federate supports every threadiverse software and Piefed is one of them.
Currently Piefed communities can be followed by Lemmy instances but not the other way around.
In general, every fediverse software that support FEP-1b12 and can receive Lemmy-like PM’s can register to Lemmy Federate.
/cc @OpenStars@discuss.online @rimu@piefed.social @julian@community.nodebb.org
Yeah something is screwy - PieFed.social is most definitely aware of lemy.lol (see this at https://piefed.social/instance/lemy.lol), but the last post it has from your own account seems to be nine months ago, and the second link on that page I linked, to “Posts” yields an error.
Nor does this portion of the conversation appear in this version of the OP (see here, which should have all of these responses below it but they are lacking there).
So apologies, I guess it’s not just the tool, rather the issue is wider than that: either your instance lemy.lol or PieFed.social (or both) are not communicating in the standard manner with one another. Fwiw, PieFed.social seems to have no trouble federating with (any? at least the vast majority?) of other Lemmy instances? But I will leave that to you and rimu to work out:-).
Interesting. I didn’t realize my instance wasn’t federated with Piefed. I’ll contact the Piefed admins about this.
However, this issue is probably not related to Lemmy Federate because Piefed.social doesn’t even use it.
Currently Piefed communities can be followed by Lemmy instances but not the other way around.
You mean using your tool, or overall?
Of course using the tool :)
@iso@lemy.lol what’s a “lemmy-like” PM :laughing: I think this explains why I can’t log into the site.
IIRC Lemmy and Mastodon PMs are different and incompatible. If you can receive PMs from Lemmy users then you should be able to receive auth codes. Currently @rikudou@lemmings.world is adding both Lemmy and Mastodon PMs here: https://github.com/ismailkarsli/lemmy-federate/pull/33
Also software other than Lemmy and Mbin needs to add ‘roleName: Administrator’ to their user webfinger requests. This is because ActivityPub doesn’t have a standard way to expose user roles.
I’m thinking of adding another ways of verifying like DNS based verification but still not sure. Any recommendations are welcome :)
Threadiverse is by far the best name for it.
i think threadiverse is the move. partly because it’s already in regular use and partky because it’s very self-explanatory. forumverse could have some legs to it now that more traditional forum software like nodebb and soon flarum support federation now, maybe it could refer to the broader category containing traditional forums and the threadiverse, but i feel like leaving out the “fedi” part kinda defeats the point (threadiverse at least partially maintains it by being a pun on it). maybe fediforums is the way to go?
it’s a whole 'nother can of worms but ironically in my experience the “verse” part of threadiverse is more offputting than the “thread” part because people think “metaverse,” but that’s just anecdotal and the term fediverse itself already has too much momentum to easily fall out of fashion
Yeah and I did not clarify well here that nobody will stop using Fediverse (I think?!): that is a fine term that should continue to exist. But we also need a term for the subset of that which the likes of Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed, and now as you say nodebb and soon flarum (and perhaps eventually Sublinks?) and ofc many others will also join. What is this subset of the Fediverse to be called?
Ngl, I kinda just instantly fell in love with fediforums as you mentioned it right here. However, it also seems fairly similar to Fediverse, perhaps too much so?
Forumverse seems more distinct, from the Fediverse? As too does Threadiverse. And the latter has history and traction, but also seems a bit tainted by association with Meta, who seems to destroy everything that it touches? :-P Though importantly, we here on Lemmy were using it first! So is that enough justification to reclaim the term, in people’s minds? What do you in particular think?
I’ve been using threadiverse, but I prefer forumverse
It’s immediately clear what it’s referring to, and it leaves it open to other compatible platforms once they implement activity pub nicely. Being able to subscribe and post to official support forums from the forumverse would be a cool promo point
Also people refer to many things as “threads”. Conversations, comment sections, discord has threads. Forum is much more clear
I used to prefer “Forumverse” as well. But people don’t seem to want to use it?
While “Threadiverse” seems to predate Meta’s Threads here on Lemmy, see e.g. https://szmer.info/post/349217 and this comment from Ada https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/93840 from 2+ years ago. Tbf I did find a reference to Forumverse from 2 years ago as well, but then virtually nobody uses it again until essentially db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com rediscovers it a handful of months ago.
So “Threadiverse” has some history behind it, except then Meta ruined the association for many people. But… we here on Lemmy were using it first!!?
I’ve always liked threadiverse, since it describes what’s unique about this aspect of the Fediverse.
Lem-bin pie?
Lempiebin?
gnu-verse
Oh shit my vote made 100%, I didn’t know I was the first to vote.
The Verse it is then 😁
Le Verse in my corner of the world.
Maybe we are poetic!? :-P
Edit 2: and oops, apparently editing a poll to say this erases all of the votes. Welp, we are learning!:-P Sorry about that!
Yup:-( Though only one vote was lost anyway, bc that poll didn’t federate out to Lemmy:-).
I must have missed that, the OP vote seems to have stayed unedited and the vote count seems ok, from my 2 piefed accounts.
Bulletinfedi?
Forumverse gets my vote out of the listed options.
Anything containing “fedi” is going to scare people coming from the USA, for the foreseeable future, unfortunately:-(.
Because of confederates?
I’m guessing the concern is “the feds”, a pejorative term to refer to undercover police?
As an ESL, I thought that was “narcs”?
That’s “narcissists”.
That too. Short for narcotics officer. But can also generally mean to snitch now in slang.
As an American, I don’t connect “fedi-” with the feds.
That is halfway a joke.
We also still have Fediverse, to encompass everything that implements the ActivityPub protocol, e.g. Friendica, Mastodon, Pixelfed, Loops (planned but not implemented yet iirc?). So the Threadiverse/Forumverse/Whatever is meant to distinguish from that.
But Bulletinfedi is distinct enough I think?
Yeah the feds are the feds. That’s it
Threadiverse kinda captures it, but it also calls association with Threads (by Meta), like if it’s the parent of it, while in fact it’s not even part of it.
That’s unfortunate, because some of us were using that term before Threads existed.
Forumverse, I guess.
(Though I’m always in favor of silly word combos, there aren’t many good ones. I like Piebin, but how do you get lemmy in there? Plebin? No thanks.)
I’d like to see more proper forum features in.fedi software. Give me the full forum experience
like what features are you wanting?
Lemmy already has the “New Comments” sort, which is the biggest feature of forums vs Reddit
Lemmy also has the “Chat” view for comments, which is good but needs to show context with them as my feature request here says https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/2544
Yeah, what features? Polls? Community flairs? The ability to restrict downvotes to only members of a community? The ability to combine multiple communities into one overarching category? And then customize that without needing admin support, and then also share that with other users? The ability to personally block every user from an instance, again without requiring admin approval? The ability to automatically label every user that has a brand new account, less than two weeks old? Or that posts 10x more often than they comment, hence might be an unregistered bot account? Or that gives and receives 10x more downvotes than upvotes, so is at best a controversial and at worst a highly toxic personality - but again, independent of an admin or moderator, and instead being totally in control of the user? Or the ability to block posts based on keywords, but perhaps not all such posts, and instead having granularity of All vs. None vs. Some? Or offering hashtags for content discoverability beyond communities and categories of communities? Or the ability to follow anything you want - a community, a user, a post, a comment (even not made by you) - and arguably far more importantly, the ability to NOT receive notifications for something that you wrote?
PieFed has all of that, and more. Lemmy has none of it. Do as you please, but now you know. Check it out: https://piefed.social/ .
Edit: even Reddit lacks many of these features. As it enshittified, it kept adding features that attempted to boost its profitability, like various forms of irl coinage, rather than provide stuff that people actually wanted to see.
I gotta check it out, thank you for the recommendation
You are very welcome 😁
Personally I dislike anything with -verse involved because big companies have run it into the ground and then some.
The boring, dry ways of describing them work best in my opinion.
Federated forums is the driest, most technical and to the point but not very telling.
Swap out forum for link aggregator and you have similar, arguably even more technical (certainly more of a mouthful).
Connected/linked forums might be more approachable, more readily conveying how these are separate forums but networked together.
Cross-forums may work as well to the same end, but not sure how immediately understandable cross may be in this context and outside of gaming spaces.
Whatever the case I kind of think this has things backwards. What’s more important than describing and talking about the backend tech is pointing people to any of the sites built with them that have anything of interest to them to bother with. I can’t think of anything online I’ve ever gone to or used because someone told me it was using Apache, Nginx, phpBB, or like an Open Source Web Server or using such and such CDN.
The reason why is simple: next to nobody talks like that. The only people that might are deep in web dev.
Welcome to the cross-faggregatorverse
This is the correct but boring (but correct) answer.
@OpenStars In the past we had gotten into the habit of calling the set of thread-based environments #threadverse, but the advent of the terrible Meta service has polluted this denomination.
Personally I would use the expression #topicverse
Topicverse sounds kinda nice.
To be fair, people were using Threadiverse before Meta revealed that they were working on their Threads. And now they do not want to switch?
sigh it’s shame how poorly firefly has aged
I’m not sure what you mean by that -> if you mean that we need new episodes, then absolutely! Or if you mean that real life has caught up to implementing those ideas real-time, I think that was always going to be the case, sadly…:-(
I explained it pretty thoroughly to the other comment asking what I meant. I don’t feel like explaining it again lol if you can’t see it for some reason then I’ll copy paste
deleted by creator
Jayne is gross as fuck, Mal can’t stop calling Inara “whore” every episode in a way that feels so indulgent, it’s a celebration of confederados, the list goes on.
Mal’s got this whole “I’ve got a code” and “I’m loyal to my CREW” shtick that’s trite and makes his morality too flexible which bumps against his “aww shucks I have a heart of gold” moments. They never critique his “code” which is actually pretty deranged, they just show these moments where he does the right thing and go “See? The confederado is actually a Nice Guy!”
Like let’s take a look at what he’s fighting against - yes, the government did something heinous with River, but he’s not trying to right that wrong nor was it the catalyst for why he is who he is. In fact, he goes out of his way not to do the right thing with her and constantly threatens to throw River and Simon out every time he gets in a bad mood.
Look at all these outpost towns that he ends up causing trouble in half the time because he wants to stick it to the government. He doesn’t have to live this life. He chooses it. Like I’m supposed to be proud of him for stealing medical supplies, realizing he didn’t do his due diligence in the slightest and regretted committing a crime, then not stealing it? He shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place. All he did was not consign a bunch of people to death - huge problem on their hands that happened because of him! We’re supposed to find that sympathetic and sweet?
The anti-hero thing did not age well. It doesn’t have any commentary and it doesn’t assess these moments with any sort of critical eye. Most of the crew is fine but Mal and Jayne (especially given what we now know about Baldwin) aged like milk and make it really hard to watch.
I think one of the major tropes present in the show was to demonstrate how there aren’t simply white hats vs. black hats (to use cowboy terms). Mal is a criminal, “forced” into living that way bc the government won’t “allow” him to live legitimately (except… really? Why won’t they again?). Therefore, the presence of great darkness within his lightness, or as you might prefer the presence of occasional boughts of lightness within his darkness, is not a “bug”, it’s a “feature” of the show, to walk out that yin and yang in a fantasy space opera setting.
Nobody is perfect. Some are far less so than others. Those at least tend to be aware of their imperfections, as opposed to e.g. The Galactic Empire muwhahaha, ahem cough, anyways they seem so stolid, so absolutely certain of their moral righteousness, that unlike the criminal Mal who often isn’t such a bad guy once you get to know him, commits atrocities the likes of which would turn people’s stomachs, if they knew (hence those are kept as closely guarded secrets).
So I think you missed that: from the perspective of the show, that was no accident - that was literally the entire point of what they were attempting to convey. Mal was not a “good guy”. He just had light in his darkness, the same way that the empire has darkness in its light (or is it rather the other way around?).
I think you’re giving Whedon to much credit tbh. I didn’t miss anything - I loved the show, I watched it a dozen times easily. Serenity a dozen more. It’s sloppy and indulgent and Jayne in particular is just vile in a way that’s vile, not funny.
We can deliberate about Mal, but Jayne…there’s no explaining that away. The only thing I’m glad we got was Jaynetown because that was just interesting on its own merits.
Yay Jayne was fairly simplistic. The dude barely had any morality bc he was more animal than man. So in that way he played a “straight man” to Mal’a greater level of complexity? He even gave voice to what many of the others were thinking, including Mal himself, but they had the grace to not say it.
True evil requires a minimum amount of “character” in order to achieve anything at all - great or otherwise. So it’s less like Jayne was “bad” and the government was “good”, and more like Jayne was simplisticly animal-like, while the true evils rose up much higher. With great power comes great responsibility, or whatever.
Jayne is like a wall painting in the background - he’s scenery?
As far as Whedon, I dunno, I like a lot of his works, I don’t like his character. The two aren’t entirely connected in my mind, though perhaps they should be more so, I just don’t know.
On the other hand, wasn’t all of this pretty much happening even while the show was still in production? You mentioned that it had “aged”, so I wasn’t coming at this from a perspective of bad show vs. good show, but from it having been a good show where something external caused its goodness to have tanked. If it had been bad at the start, then we wouldn’t say that it “aged”, just that the show sucked. Which it didn’t… and yet, also… didn’t it always though? That yin and yang seemed to me to have not been so much changed by the passage of time?
Edit: oh, I haven’t heard of whatever has been revealed about the actor who plays Jayne. Maybe that’s what you meant. It might change my own perspective of the show in that case. I would hope not actually… but it might.
What about boardnet?
Bc a network of forum boards?
Yeah. I think it has a good ring to it. Maybe forumnet.
Lemmyville
