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I want Amazon fulfillment center workers to be paid a living wage, but calling some of those jobs “skilled” is stretch.
The phrase has lost all meaning. People just assume its a personal attack now cause I guess American egos are in decline or something.
Waxing moon or some shit.
Instead of reasonable pay, you’re offered a title and persistent lies about career growth. And it feels pretty shitty when you’re confronted with the fact that you’ve invested a bunch of energy in something that won’t pay off.
Ugh… Dumbasses must’ve been terrible at Tetris.
But seriously, that box took up so much erroneous space on the transporting vehicle, displacing other boxes that had to move to yet more vehicles. The extra emissions from these failed attempts at protecting the item (which is pushed up against the wall of the box, vulnerable anyways), is sad.
TIL putting stuff in boxes is skilled labor but flipping burgers isn’t.
/Eyeroll
My guy if you can learn the job first day off the street it is unskilled labor
Stephen King taught me that cracking eggs is skilled labor for homeless alcoholic vampire-slaying priests
Which is why the very idea of “unskilled labour” is ableist.
I had to work with an occupational therapist for 2 weeks to learn how to wash my dishes at home without having injuries or breaking my dishes. I could not have walked into a job as a fry cook just because it’s entry level and “unskilled”. I’d need to learn some skills first.
There’s no such thing as unskilled labour for me personally, because any labour requires skill when your body or mind is disabled.
Did it take 4 years of school and another year or two on the job training to get proficient? There is such a thing as unskilled labor even if you personally have to work harder at it due to the cards you’ve been dealt.
I thankfully haven’t had to do physical therapy, but from what I hear, it’s painful and no fun if you’re doing it right…hope your dishes are getting easier, friend.
Which is why the very idea of “unskilled labour” is ableist.
they don’t exactly call it capable labor or anything.
They call it unskilled labor for a reason. It’s generally not complicated and not very hard.
Naturally being disabled makes things harder, but idk what you want me to do about that one. People with physical disabilities and the capability of doing labor don’t generally go together.
Could be a troll? The only difference is that food service is gross and squishy. Amazon has so automated the box packing that the hardest part is getting zoned out in the monotony and forgetting some critical step before you send the box away.
“Skilled labor” lmao. Look it up and sites like indeed.com call it having a law degree.
Some people dont understand that if the workers own the economy everyone benefits, also it doesn’t matter how “skilled” your labor is when you’re replaceable.
Yes putting shit in a box truly requires specialized skills you dumbass twat waffle.
Learn to fucking stand with your follow workers.
I sit at a desk at home, send emails, and make calls and get paid comparatively handsomely - these people have to stand over searing hot griddles, deep friers, and industrial equipment, risking serious injury at any moment for (close to) minimum wage. Doesn’t seem right to me.
They tie their confidence and self worth to their pay rate. They don’t want to think they are the same as a fast food worker.
By the way, fast food work sucks. Thats why noone wants to do it. Its not easy to work a shit job. Hard work is hard work either way.
“skilled labor” btw
mfer works in a warehouse packing boxes.
Last i checked things like construction and welding are considered to be “skilled labor” but apparently i don’t know shit lol.
Either way it’s Labor and the profit should be shared with the person doing the work. Sure it took Capital and risk to set the whole thing up, there’s costs involved with running the warehouse, etc. So I’d course it’s not split. But the dildo at the top shouldn’t be taking the Lion’s share.
There’s no risk to the capital class. They do not risk their livelihoods, they barely risk their next yacht. The only people that share risk are the working class, not the owners.
There’s no risk to the capital class. They do not risk their livelihoods, they barely risk their next yacht. The only people that share risk are the working class, not the owners.
the risk is primarily shifted towards the beginning of the businesses lifetime, later it can only really be hampered by skill issues and aggressive competition forcing you out of business. Think boeing. Or any number of companies that just, no longer exist.
Once you get to a certain size, it’s really hard to fail unless the world literally changes, or the government kills you or something silly like that.
I would generally disagree with the statement that the working class is the one sharing the risk. Unless you mean some weird tangential thing, like being let go because the company fails, but that should be an obvious risk, i would think. There are a few exceptions, nortel being the only real prominent one i can think of. And that’s mostly because they all got fucked over, not because it was risky, so that shouldn’t have even happened.
Failing as an entrepreneur doesnt mean financial ruin, it means you have to get a regular job, just like the rest of the people that work for you.
The working class sharing the risk part is about when the owner class makes decisions that go poorly, the working class is pushed to make up the difference or they are downsized. The owner class doesnt bear the risks of their mistakes in any way other than financially.
Failing as an entrepreneur doesnt mean financial ruin, it means you have to get a regular job, just like the rest of the people that work for you.
failing is more complicated than this though. I’ve thought a lot about it. For an entirely online business, maybe. But if you have any sort of physical product, clothing as a simple example. Unless you’re literally drop shipping/middle-manning this shit you have a significant infrastructure and capital investment/cost.
For one thing you need the capability and knowledge to be able to design and manufacture clothing. You need to be able to market it, you need to be able to test it and refine it, you need to be able to optimze the design so it can be produced easily. You need to spend time making product, packing product, inventorying that product, and eventually, shipping that product.
Sure you can pay other people to do this for you, but that’s not how this works. You probably have to rent some sort of commercial space, or lease it. You need to outfit that space to work for your needs, you need to hire people to work for you, and you need those people to operate as an extension of you so they can operate most effectively, which requires both a lot of training and upkeep in terms of informational knowledge. You still need to deal with marketing, inventory, and shipping as well, that never goes away. You might continue doing design, you might do collaborative design now. And i haven’t even mentioned tax or regulations and laws around this kind of stuff yet.
and if the business fails, you still have all of these assets, all of which you have to deal with, product being the worst asset, because it’s effectively valueless. The assets you own in terms of equipment and materials might have some base value, but it’s not much. If you have a lease that’s going to be a bit of a nightmare to deal with. Not to mention the time and skill investment made into this business as well.
if you put all of these things together, and some arguably irresponsible financials this could very well spell financial ruin for a company and it’s owner. Especially for small businesses, small business owners tend to be some of the most charitable business owners out there.
IDK why you keep saying they just have to go get a job, that’s completely irrelevant here, considering that that was literally the risk to begin with. And you’re ignoring all of the previously mentioned context as well. Seems like a downplay of the risk present.
The working class sharing the risk part is about when the owner class makes decisions that go poorly, the working class is pushed to make up the difference or they are downsized. The owner class doesnt bear the risks of their mistakes in any way other than financially.
sort of? It’s not really shared risk, in some senses it is, because you might single-handedly bring down a small business if you really fuck something up, but just dont do that. You might be pushed to work more hours, or do more things, but i’m not sure what the legal basis is for that, and most of that would be done entirely on the working individuals side. Obviously working at a small company there is always the risk that the company goes under, but that’s true for every company, and every job. People who work in trades/commission based fields will tell you this. People that do freelance will lament about this fact. It’s nothing new.
Also to be clear, it’s not explicitly capital investment, capital is the primary risk, but you also risk losing/wasting time, and knowledge as well.
and regardless, this is a different risk. The workers aren’t risking their personal capital or investor capital on something. Their investing time and energy into a thing they believe in, in return for money. If that stops, they can “go get another job” as you said. They have quite a bit more flexibility here than the business owner. Since they don’t have responsibility for any of these assets.
The owner class doesnt bear the risks of their mistakes in any way other than financially.
i would also like to point out, that in the term “capitalism” is the term capital, which means money. How else are they going to bear that? Emotionally?
To the point a small business entrepreneur is risking their life savings, they risk no more than a worker since they can always get a job. The bankruptcy courts will not make them homeless, will not take their last car, and will not starve them. They make it seem like failure is death itself, but no, it’s just back to being a worker.
Everyone forgets the workers are taking a risk too. “Just get a new job” doesn’t fly in a recession. It doesn’t fly when your new boss engages in tax evasion and fucks up your SS/Medicare. Or you just walk into a buzz saw of toxicity and harassment.
We treat a business going under as a tragedy for the owner, but the workers are out of a paycheck too. And hey the owner can always get a job; no matter how far down they are, the bankruptcy courts will let them keep enough for rent/utilities/bills. So they aren’t actually taking anymore risk than their workers.
“Why aren’t the rich people being allowed to hurt other workers more than me? What do you mean those other workers are standing up for themselves? I am very mad about this!”
Stratification Economics- that’s the term for it. It’s such a bizarre and fucked up thing that humans would rather make sure their relative status is better to another group rather than objectively imroved overall.
“Everything is going as planned. The propaganda will continue. Capitalism. 'Murica.”
lol packing boxes at Amazon being skilled labor in comparison to the burger dudes. Like, my dude, you’re about half a step above the dude putting a burger together then packing a bag with it, and I’m being generous.
And like. We’ve all ordered from amazon. We know how they pack boxes. There’s no skill involved there.
Packing a box seems easier than operating the machines at mcdos. Timing the operation, consistency, time pressure, angry clients, …
That right there is why I’m hoping the xeet was sarcasm tbh.
You need a permit to handle food.
Was literally going to say… there’s more regulations/certifications in food prep, both for the business itself and the workers, than a lot of other jobs.
Crab ass mentality. You should be asking why you get paid so little not keeping everyone else down
And the fast food shit is probably about as skilled as packing Amazon boxes the fuck you on about
Bro, I went to college and got a degree in packinology. Not everyone is qualified to use scotch tape and bubble wrap. You know how many people die every year choking on packing peanuts?
A brain sturgeon ain’t got shit on me.
I think we’re all missing the point here, and this is how they divide us. (By they I mean monied interests). Back in the 60s you could get a job air hammering in the same 8 bolts all day that would provide you a house, car, and your spouse doesn’t work and you have 2 kids and go on vacation twice a year and the company takes care of your retirement. Both of these jobs (in ops post) require the same or more skill to do and you can’t even afford to rent a studio apartment on your own. We need to stop looking at other “unskilled” labor and saying “they better not make a much as me” and start asking “hold on, why can’t we both make more?” Rising tides lift all ships. The only people that suffer are the multi millionaires.
This isnt radical. If you work full time you should be able to afford what your parents and grandparents had in the 60s working full time.
It’s getting to the point that just renting an illegal basement “apartment” requires 2 incomes in some places… I make $30/hr and almost half my income goes to this shit garage apartment I live in… Forget “legitimate” apartments, those prices are just absolute insanity.
Without looking at “professional” college degree required jobs, the VAST majority of jobs out there pay barely over $20/hr where I am… Where are you going to live on that kind of garbage?
I cannot stand the focus on “family income.” It completely ignores the experience of the individual and lumps multiple incomes together to try to claim that people are doing well… Yeah well fuck me for being undesirable and permanently single.
Yeah well fuck me for being undesirable and permanently single.
woe is you, even more fucked are the people who don’t want to be living in a multi person household. Let alone living with a partner.
(this comment is mostly a shitpost, i just think you phrased that part weird, dont mind me)
Honest labor is honest labor, whatever it’s moping the floor or engineering new bridges and rockets. We need each other. And we all want to have a sufficient amount of these funny play-money papers once we clock out for today, or, rather, not feeling limited by the lack of them up to the point of starvation.
Exactly 💯.
I hate to break it to that guy but packing boxes isn’t skilled labor either.
All labour is skilled labour. If you have to be trained how to do something it’s a skill.
You think packing boxes is just putting things in boxes but I’m sure there is more to it, particularly when working for dystopian Amazon where they’re very strict with KPIs.
People called it unskilled labour as a means to pay people less.
All labour is skilled labour. If you have to be trained how to do something it’s a skill.
semantically sure, but im pretty sure the implication is that it’s a heavily skill based field, something that you can’t just show up and start doing. As the term skilled labor would imply.
Would you consider someone who just learned chess to be a “skilled player” or would you consider someone who has quite the substantial knowledge of chess, and the ability to play very competently a “skilled player”
Eh. If you can replace someone with practically any able bodied person off the street and a week of training, it’s not skilled labor.
Can you technically argue that 1 week of training equates to becoming “skilled”? Sure, but it’s a dumb line to draw IMO.
I think it fits the dictionary definition. Don’t you?
skill /skĭl/
noun
-
Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.
“painted with great skill.”
-
A developed talent or ability.
“improved his writing skills.”
-
An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body.
“the skill of glassmaking.”
-
It’s dumb to draw any sort of line.
Given the size of the boxes my Amazon stuff comes in you’d have to be extremely challenged not to be able to get that stuff in there. They’re not exactly solving the Knapsack Packing Problem multiple times a day.
My understanding is some algorithm decides what size box to use for an order, the packer packs that box.
The skill comes from the repetition of doing the task to become efficient enough not to be taken out back and put down by Bezos.
The skill comes from the repetition of doing the task to become efficient enough not to be taken out back and put down by Bezos.
i would consider this being abused, not being skilled but ok
If anything, I’d claim that burger flipping requires more skill than item boxing.
It’s a skill. Just a lower skill, as it’s not that hard to learn or become good at it.
Yeah and that’s what “skilled labor” means. It is about people with higher skills required for their job, skills that are in high demand. There is a huge difference between a doctor, programmer, CAD designer, and a cashier.
