• TaterTot@piefed.social
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    9 days ago

    Privacy is a fundamental right that protects autonomy, personal dignity, and the freedom to engage with society without fear of judgment or control. It acts as a crucial safeguard against authoritarianism. Without it, every choice we make can be monitored, recorded, and scrutinized by those in power. History shows that surveillance is often used not to protect people, but to label harmless behaviors as suspicious or deviant, creating pretexts for further erosion of rights.

    But beyond its role in protecting civil liberties, privacy is essential for personal growth and mental well-being. We all need space to be ourselves, to practice new skills without perfection, explore interests that might seem uncool or immature, enjoy “guilty pleasure” media, or simply act silly, without worrying about how it will be perceived or used against us. These moments aren’t trivial. They’re where creativity, healing, and self-discovery happen. Privacy gives us room to evolve, to make mistakes, and to be human

    • user02@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      This! 1000x this! I’ve spent years educating myself on tech, privacy, psychology etc trying to answer this question. The root thoughts are berried so deep it’s hard to find the signal in the noise. I’ve seen more concise explanations similar to yours in the past year than I have in the previous decade. I think the collective consciousness may finally be getting to a place where they’re starting to ask the right questions, and thankfully concise answer like this are imo the right directions to point people.

      • TaterTot@piefed.social
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        8 days ago

        Couldn’t agree more. The rise of digital surveillance has sparked a necessary counterwave, a deeper reexamination of why we valued privacy in the first place.

        And while I’d love to claim credit, it sounds like you and I map have taken a similar deep dive into the topic. I’m really just standing on the shoulders of thinkers who’ve been wrestling with this far longer and more deeply than I have. My response was just an attempt to distill the ideas that resonated most, hopefully with a little clarity.

        Glad it landed.

    • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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      9 days ago

      Ok. A counterargument.

      Information wants to be free. And to let it flow freely is the least-effort solution.

      By letting information flow freely we approach a state where everybody knows everything about everything and everybody. This could be pretty great and seems the easy and natural way to go. A kind of superdemocracy. By inhibiting this evolution we create a state of deformity and disease.

        • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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          9 days ago

          It’s a figure of speech.

          It means that information propagates extremely easily.

          • mrmaplebar@fedia.io
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            9 days ago

            It means that information propagates extremely easily.

            Sounds like you’ve just answered your question about why privacy is important.

      • TaterTot@piefed.social
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        8 days ago

        I agree: knowledge should be free. But that doesn’t mean all information, especially private lives and deeply personal details, should be universally accessible.

        People aren’t data packets. The idea that “everyone should know everything about everyone” assumes superhuman recall and universal comfort with exposure, neither of which exist. If we’re talking sci-fi (like the Borg), total transparency works for them because individuality and autonomy is erased. But that doesn’t work for people as we currently exist.

        Here’s the key: privacy doesn’t hinder open information, it enables it. Encryption, VPNs, private browsing, these tools protect your ability to seek and share freely, without fear of surveillance or retaliation. Without privacy, power chills dissent. People stop asking questions.

        So yes, free knowledge matters. But personal lives aren’t public records.
        Privacy isn’t the enemy of openness.
        It’s its best defense.

        Edit: Reworked this to streamline my point. Some of the phrasing no longer matches the quotes you used in your response, the the general points remain the same.

        • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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          9 days ago

          But I’m not sure that vision logically extends to all information…

          I see it more as a physical fact. Keeping a secret takes more effort than open communication. Information propagates like a fart.

          assumes both a superhuman capacity for processing information

          Well that would be google. You don’t need to carry the information around with you, you just need to know how to craft the right query.

          and a uniform comfort with exposure,

          It might just be the taboo of the hour too.

          But that comes at the cost of individuality, autonomy, and the very idea of personal…

          That’s a stretch

          Anyway, here’s my key point. Protecting personal privacy doesn’t hinder the free flow of information, it enables it.

          That’s a big stretch. Literally “inhibiting the flow increases the flow”. I mean I see your argument. But the constraining force here isn’t free information, it’s judgement and persecution.

          So I agree, knowledge should be free.

          Mine wasn’t an argument of moral imperative but physics. And fighting physics is exhausting.

          • TaterTot@piefed.social
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            8 days ago

            Edit: I wrote a long rebuttal last night. Wasn’t sober. Woke up, read it, and thought: Ain’t nobody got time for that.

            So instead, just the core point:

            It’s not a stretch to say privacy protects both our legal rights and our willingness to access and share information.

            It is a stretch to claim that not recording and uploading everything I do in private will cause a “state of deformity and disease.”

            That’s not physics. That’s selling data collection as snake oil. It’s an attempt to justify a world view without examining it’s ramifications.

      • fizzle@quokk.au
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        9 days ago

        Information doesn’t “want to be free” the companies that want my personal habits and interests have invested a whole lot of effort in acquiring it.

  • itsathursday@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    What’s your credit card number? I am curious.

    Do you have children? What are their names and where do they go to school when you are not watching over them? again I am curious.

    What do you care for deeply and value most? Is it your family, a friend? Who are they and what would you do to avoid them from any pain, again I am curious.

    What is your daily routine? When can I expect to see you in a specific location and when will you be away from your possessions in your home? What kind of security do you have on your physical space and digital space? I am curious.

    What kinds of things do you like and not like? What would you do if I could provide you the things that you favour? Or what of if I subtly introduced those things that you dislike purposefully? I am curious.

    What do you get paid at your work? What if I was negotiating my salary and seeking a promotion above you, what if I made more than you and did less?

    What do you make of generative AI? And what if I had your likeness passed on to a model to mimic your look, your sound, your appearance and mannerisms and opinions? What if I made you say or do or support something that you don’t stand for? What then?

    What if you made a living off something and you only received payment once you had presented this thing to the client or intended audience, what if you showed me what this was before you did this and got paid? Would that bother you? Would that affect your income at all?

    The human condition is not one of a utopia, mind your own business as best you can but don’t expect that everyone has been given an equal footing in this world. For your sake and the sake of others, privacy is a matter of respect at a micro, macro and global scale and beyond that it has implications to intellectual property, the ability for a single person or a nation to maintain resources and income, and allow at the most basic level a person to have a conversation with themselves or with god and be truely vulnerable without any judgement whatsoever.

  • Noctambulist@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    Because knowledge is power and most people don’t like giving whomever power over them for no reason. Also, it shouldn’t matter why privacy is important to people, the fact that it is should suffice to protect it.

    • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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      9 days ago

      It’s important because we say it’s important?

      Hmm. That seems a little sketchy. Reality becomes whatever’s popular. Propaganda becomes the ruling force. Etc.

      • Noctambulist@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Actually, yes! What is “important” in a general sense is a similar question to that of the meaning of life. In the end there is no external, absolute rule of nature that decides this for us but we must create our own values. And privacy is such a value. In part you can derive it from others like personal freedom but that only moves the question. Different opinions on what our values should be and how to resolve conflicting ones in specific situations is the subject of ethics and has been debated since humans could debate.

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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    9 days ago

    Because it’s not the first 99 people that know all about you that are the problem, it’s the 1 in a 100 who are out to grief or scam or steal or coerce.

    People love to share about themselves, and that’s fine… unless there’s a malicious actor prompting them to overshare.

    People love to gossip about each other, and that’s usually tolerable… until rumor is weaponized.

    • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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      9 days ago

      Privacy rights can be likened to a strong door keeping the wolves out.

      Another option would be to do away with the wolves.

      Which is cheaper for our society?

      • onoki@reddthat.com
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        9 days ago

        How would you do away with the wolves today, if the non-wolves could become wolves tomorrow?

        I don’t see that as a possible option at all.

        • presoak@lazysoci.alOP
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          9 days ago

          I don’t know.

          The design of the door is a well-researched topic. The elimination of wolves, less so.

          One approach would be to feed the wolves. A well fed wolf has little interest in breaking your door.

          One approach to keeping the wolves fed might be UBI.

          An old approach is religious indoctrination.

          • Kissaki@feddit.org
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            8 days ago

            is a well-researched topic. The elimination of wolves, less so.

            There’s plenty of research on wolves, their disappearance/eradication, and (incentivised, supported) reintroduction to Europe.

            A well fed wolf has little interest in breaking your door.

            I find this symbolism stupid. Wolves aren’t exactly well known to attack doors.

            One approach to keeping the wolves fed might be UBI.

            They were talking about sheep becoming wolves, not wolves going hungry. Wolves will be wolves. A UBI won’t change that.

      • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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        8 days ago

        The door is cheaper.

        History has shown, time and time again, that any wolf-eradication program will, almost immediately, be taken over by the wolves themselves and used for their own cruel ends.

  • Kissaki@feddit.org
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    8 days ago

    Why is privacy important? Be specific.

    That’s how I prompt AI, not how I would address [a community of] people. But that’s just me, I guess.

  • Melllvar@startrek.website
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    8 days ago

    “Privacy” in the modern sense is less about protecting you from personal embarrassment or financial loss, and more about protecting society from the dangers of mass data collection.

    Historical examples of mass datasets that were misused:

    • The Nazis used demographic records (birth, death, marriage records, etc.) to identify Jews and other undesirables in conquered countries.
    • Japanese Americans were identified for internment in part through illegal use of census information.
    • The Rwanda genocide was facilitated by tribal information being printed on drivers licenses.

    In none of these examples were the data collected for the evil purposes it was eventually used for. In some cases, the evil purposes were completely forbidden by the rules governing the data, but they were used anyway.

    Information is a form of knowledge. Knowledge is power. And power in the wrong hands is dangerous.

  • Allero@lemmy.today
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    7 days ago

    First, because it protects otherwise vulnerable groups of people who fight for freedom and justice. Whistleblowers, journalists, independent intelligence groups need privacy to uncover the crime and abuse of the powerful without fearing repercussions.

    Second, because being watched forcibly changes people’s behavior. People are forced to be “normal”, they do not allow themselves the same liberties they have when they’re in private. When this becomes default, it negatively affects mental health, inducing severe stress and anxiety.

    Third, because there are cultural conventions at the backbone of our society and the way it functions that are trampled by the invasion of privacy. You are taught to be uncomfortable when naked around others, to close off when you go to the toilet, to talk through your deeply personal or intimate matters exclusively with a select few etc. This isn’t merely an isolated cultural quirk - it defines how we treat each other, how we communicate, how our sexuality and reproduction function (and who gets reproduced to begin with), how our relationships work, what kind of language we use, and more. Letting anyone or anything in just like that naturally makes many uncomfortable, and has the potential to be ultimately disastrous for the society we know - a kind of society built with expectation of privacy as one of its cornerstones.

    Fourth, because the main groups that are interested in private information are governments (see the first point), those willing to manipulate you into buying something, denying your autonomy in the name of profit off your back, and those willing to manipulate your opinions, mainly political, to serve their interests.

    Fifth, because private information is not always adequately safeguarded. Leaks can provide sensitive information used in fraud, blackmail, and by other malevolent actors.

  • AmbitiousProcess (they/them)@piefed.social
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    9 days ago

    Privacy affects a number of things, so it’s hard to give any broad answer, but here’s a few individual examples I guess.

    • You close the door when you use the bathroom. We are simply uncomfortable with being perceived in a vulnerable situation like that by other people in most circumstances. To get rid of privacy would be to get rid of your bathroom door, and make yourself uncomfortable when you simply don’t have to be.
    • You store your passwords and don’t share them with anyone. To give up privacy would be to give up all the access to your private accounts.
    • You might not state exactly how much money you have when you’re in public. Without privacy, people with a lot to lose would suddenly be easily identifiable targets for bad actors that could kidnap them, extort them for ransom, etc.
    • Online search habits can identify things about you. A lack of privacy means targeted advertisements can convince you to buy things you wouldn’t waste your money on otherwise, (cough cough instagram showing teen girls beauty ads specifically when it detected they were feeling insecure), or that governments and corporations can influence your decisions and opinions away from your best interests (cough cough Cambridge Analytica scandal)
    • Being open isn’t always beneficial. You might lie to a child about where puppies go when they die, because making that currently private information public to the child would only make the situation harder for them.
    • Harassment relies on identifiable information about you. If you had to publish your name, address, phone number, and email with every account you made because privacy didn’t exist, any statement someone dislikes could lead to major problems for you. This means self-censorship, and constantly living in fear if your ideas exist outside someone else’s acceptable worldview who happens to also be willing to cause you harm.

    Obviously these are just a few examples, and there are ways in which a lack of privacy can also be beneficial. For example on my harassment point, you could also argue it’s bad that neo-nazis have anonymity, because it makes it hard to stop their dangerous rhetoric, but that could again be countered by saying neo-nazis are much more likely to harass and threaten people, who themselves then need privacy.

    It’s a similar argument to free speech. It might not be good for everyone in all cases, but limiting free speech (or in this case, not having or limiting privacy) would lead to oppressive ideologies gaining power faster than non-oppressive ones, would dull human expression and make things more monolithic, and generally make any form of democratic or outside-the-norm expression extremely difficult if not impossible, so we accept the potential downsides in favor of the much larger upsides.

  • big_slap@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    there are things you want to protect in order to protect yourself.

    for example: would you give me, a stranger, your social security number (if youre american) and banking info?