With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.

“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”

  • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
    334·
    2 months ago

    No thoughts on the democratic party completely capitulating to a reactionary right wing framework on Israel, immigration, and foreign policy? No thoughts on the Biden/Harris administration actively funding a genocide for the past year? No thoughts on Kamala promising to continue allowing Israel to “defend itself”? Blue maga is literally celebrating the endorsement of the architect of the invasion of Iraq. Did the Democratic establishment forget to at least pretend to be an opposition party?

    • Fades@lemmy.worldEnglish
      182·
      2 months ago

      this post is about Stein and the Green party, nobody asked for your literal whataboutism. Shows just how effective geekwithsoul’s comment is that you couldn’t muster a single word in response and instead turned to “b-b-b-but democrats!!!”

      That last sentence with ‘blue maga’ says everything about what you support, no surprise all you have are whatabouts.

      how many Ds have eaten with Putin personally btw?

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          8·
          2 months ago

          Do you not know what a state dinner is?

          Wow, you found one of the millions of photos of The President of the United States dining with another world leader. Congrats.

          What was Jill’s excuse?

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
            48·
            2 months ago

            She went to an RT party, was investigated by the Senate Intelligence Committee, and excused. Don’t vote for her if you don’t want to. I won’t, because I’m in a swing state. But the dis/mis information and slandering of third parties should be disconcerting for anyone who wants more choices in this duopoly.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              3·
              2 months ago

              RT

              So literally the Kremlin’s propaganda arm. Totally normal stuff…

              After all, she was a government official at the time, so it’s normal for her to dine with the Russian president. Oh wait, she wasn’t?

              Well at least she was a major presidential candidate right? Oh, never more than ~1.4% you say?

              Well I’m sure Putin and his oligarch buddies just wanted to meet her because they’re big fans 🙄.

              I have a hard time believing any of you Jill Stein shills are actually for real. I really hope you’re not.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                11·
                2 months ago

                I’m not voting for Jill Stein. Again, she was investigated. They found no wrongdoing. Russia did support her campaign because it sows division. AIPAC donates to Harris and Trump. Facts, not feelings and speculation, should dictate reasoning.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
          3·
          2 months ago

          Do we really have to explain the difference between public officials who work in foreign policy and directly represent the United States, versus private citizens?

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                12·
                2 months ago

                Sure,

                She appeared on RT as part of her campaign. Per the Intelligence Committee report linked:

                ”I just assumed that they had some kind of relationship with the Russian government and now my understanding is that they are probably state media, though they go through some nonprofit. Whatever, you know. Is their structure any different from Voice of America? Or BBC? I can’t tell you”

                Also, from the investigation:

                On December 9, 2015, Stein flew to Moscow to attend the RT Anniversary Gala. However, Stein paid for all of her own expenses and was reimbursed by her campaign because "it was very important that we [the campaign] were not going to be accepting money from a foreign entity of any sort, let alone something connected with a foreign government."Stein also was not paid to participate on any panels at the event.

                She was investigated and the committee found no wrongdoing. It is not illegal for presidential candidates to meet with world leaders or do interviews with international media outlets.

                As for the investments. If she is a hypocrite for having index and mutual fund investments in fossil fuels, then most Americans, as well as Harris, are too.

                Kamala Harris’s notable investments include Vanguard Target Retirement 2030 Trust II, worth between $250,001 and $500,000, and SFDCP Large Cap Growth Equity and SFDCP Large Cap Eq S&P 500 Ind, each worth $100,001 and $250,000.

                Emhoff’s retirement accounts are heavily invested in exchange-traded funds from Vanguard, BlackRock, and Charles Schwab. Some of the funds in Emhoff’s portfolio, according to documents filed by Harris in 2021, included:

                • Vanguard Small Cap Value Index (VBR)

                • iShares Core MSCI EAFE ETF

                • Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index (VBK)

                • iShares Broad USD Investment Grade Corporate Bond ETF

                • Vanguard Growth Index ETF (VUG)

                • Vanguard Information Technology Index Fund ETF (VGT)

                • Vanguard Consumer Staples Index Fund ETF (VDC)

                • Vanguard Industrials Index Fund ETF (VIS)

                Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

                Jill Stein could sue Thirdway.org for defamation and libel, this article is grounds for a lawsuit.

                • ochi_chernye@startrek.website
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  Whataboutisms aside, if you’re going to claim an article is libelous, you ought to at least be able to refute one of the assertions made by it. You haven’t actually done that here. Jill Stein’s defense is that she’s naive to the point of idiocy. So she’s either a witting catspaw of Putin and the GOP, or an imbecile that has no business being president.

                  Furthermore, I was unable to find any language in the senate intelligence committee’s report to indicate that she’d been cleared of wrongdoing— merely the absence of an indictment. Regardless of whether she’s committed any crimes, she is objectively a spoiler candidate. She could be as pure as the driven snow, and it wouldn’t change the fact that the only thing her campaign stands to accomplish is to elect donald trump.

                  If she really wanted to further her purported agenda, she would use her candidacy to get concessions from Harris in exchange for dropping out and endorsing her. Stein could actually effect change that way. Instead, she parrots Russian talking points, exclusively attacks Democrats, and consequently is completely counterproductive with regard to her stated goals.

      • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
        29·
        2 months ago

        Mentioning that the current admin has been actively funding a genocide for a year and that both major parties promise to continue to do so in 2025, isn’t a whataboutism. Sorry to criticize your genocidal queen, I know stopping to consider that brown Muslims are humans too can be very taxing on most Americans.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      13·
      2 months ago

      Jill Stein does not know how many Representatives are in the US House of Representatives.

      Anyone care to defend that? That the kind of President you want?

      • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
        211·
        2 months ago

        I’m voting for Claudia de la Cruz, not that it matters. neither Claudia, Cornel West, or Jill Stein are actively funding a genocide.

          • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
            14·
            2 months ago

            Oh I give a shit about the working class of Ukraine, thanks for asking. It’s just that Biden/Harris aren’t bypassing Congress multiple times to send $60 billion of my tax dollars to Russia to further their imperialism. But yeah you definitely don’t care about Palestinians, you’ve made that clear. I’m willing to bet you don’t care for the people of Syria, or Libya, or Afghanistan, or Iraq either. I wonder what the common denominator is there. Maybe you just absolutely despise brown Muslims on the opposite end of US imperial conquest.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              3·
              2 months ago

              You’re carrying water for people who say Russia had no choice but to invade and that Russia isn’t to blame for starting the war.

              These candidates are excusing Russia’s actions and not assigning proper culpability to the genocidal, imperial Putin regime. And you’re going to vote for them?

              • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
                1·
                2 months ago

                I’m voting for Claudia de la Cruz as mentioned previously. But even if the green party secures 5 percent of the vote, they are eligible for federal funding which is a step away from 2 conservative parties that ignore worsening material conditions for working class Americans.

                • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  Third parties have gotten over 5% before. How’d that go for them?

                  It’s clear that the current third party strategy of advertising via presidential runs is an abject failure.

                  • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
                    1·
                    2 months ago

                    We also used to have socialist political figures in power, if you learned American history at all. Abject failure is supporting genocide, ignoring worsening material conditions of the working class, criminalizing homelessness, and blaming immigrants as a scapegoat for everything.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
              3·
              2 months ago

              So how come you’ve got a line in the sand that you won’t support any candidate who supports Palestinian genocide, but that doesn’t apply to Ukrainian genocide?

              By your own logic you should be rejecting the Greens too.

              • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
                1·
                2 months ago

                I think I’ve said this like 3 times now but I’m not voting for green party, I’m voting for Claudia de la Cruz. Again not that it matters. I’m anti imperialist whether it’s genocide by Israel, Russia, or the US.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  By not voting Democrat, you’re enabling imperialism by all of the above. You’re actively working against your own professed goals.

                  • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
                    1·
                    2 months ago

                    By not voting for one of the two outwardly fascist parties, I’m enabling more fascism. Got it. You should put this effort in convincing a Trump supporter to vote for Kamala. You’re more closely aligned in policy with that voter.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          5·
          2 months ago

          neither Claudia, Cornel West, or Jill Stein are actively funding a genocide.

          Yes, because none of these people work in the government so no fucking shit.

          You’re essentially voting for Donald Trump, just remember that. You can try to rationalize it, but you cannot argue with reality.

          If you actually gave a single shit about the Palestinian people (that you suddenly started caring about on an election year, despite the conditions in Gaza being this way for literal decades), then you will do anything to make sure that Donald Trump does not get elected.

          If you want a viable third party, you don’t wait until 8 months before an election every 4 years to steal votes from the Democratic party. Until we do away with first past the post and/or the Electoral College, voting for anyone other than one of the two major parties is akin to not voting at all (or in many cases, an active detriment to the Democratic party, which is why it’s always such a no-brainer for Putin. Maximum social discord, minimum cost).

          I know that you know this. I just want you to remember it when Trump wins and by February Palestine literally ceases to exist. If you want to see this genocide kicked into high gear all you gotta do is: vote for Donald Trump, vote for a third party, or not vote at all… And then you too can feel like you’re part of the action!

          • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
            13·
            2 months ago

            I’ve been heavily anti-Israel since the murder of Rouzan al-Najjar in 2018. I’ve worked on multiple local campaigns for both independent and Democratic candidates alike. But reading through your rant it definitely sounds like you’re projecting a lot of your own personal insecurities. I’m sorry that exercising my freedom to vote for a candidate that aligns with my values of not commiting genocide upsets you. I hope you can look past your own shortcomings as a human being and learn to forgive yourself for being ok with your tax dollars slaughtering an entire indigenous population.

            • ochi_chernye@startrek.website
              41·
              2 months ago

              But your proposed course of action clearly doesn’t align with your stated goal, for reasons that have already been pointed out to you. I don’t see you engaging with that argument. This leads me to believe that you don’t actually care about what happens to Palestinians; you just want to feel like you’re taking a moral stand. People that actually give a shit tend to care about what the consequences of their actions will be.

              • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
                11·
                2 months ago

                My proposed course of action aligns with the Palestinian Americans in my community. We speak out at our city council every month and hold rallies near our house reps office every week. But I guess I just don’t care as much as someone voting in favor of the slaughter of their families, someone like you.

                • ochi_chernye@startrek.website
                  11·
                  2 months ago

                  Whether that’s true or not, it doesn’t change the math. The world’s full of people advocating against their own interests. You still haven’t addressed the argument.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
      31·
      2 months ago

      dude she can’t unequivocally say Putin is a war criminal. save me the capitulation bullshit.

      • Ion@lemmy.myserv.one
        1·
        2 months ago

        We’re going to have the most lethal military because 70 percent of your tax dollars should go to the department of defense rather than addressing the tens of thousands of Americans dying from lack of access to healthcare, lack of public transit that would provide accessibility to underserved communities, particularly those of color, or funding education so that teachers don’t need to live out of their cars or have fundraisers to pay for their curriculum.

        We will continue to ensure Israel can defend itself from children throwing rocks and homemade rockets against a brutal apartheid regime that controls every aspect of Palestinian life.

        We’re going to focus on border security because immigrants are clearly the problem as stated initially by the GOP, rather than counter a racist narrative using a false premise with the fact that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a substantially lower rate than American citizens and also greatly contribute to our economy.

        Yeah that’s literally just conservative policy.

        • pyre@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          i don’t know what you’re arguing for. stein is not it. she’s not genuine. she’s done nothing to make the green party even remotely relevant for a decade. she just shows up every four years to collect money. she’s a grifter.

            • pyre@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 months ago

              when did you mention that? this whole thread was about stein and you kept going on tangents about military and shit.

              also wow that brings the total de la Cruz votes to … i guess 1? there will be a margin of error so it should be somewhere between -99 and 101. congrats on your vote for the republican party.