Wow, this one touched some nerves.
I’d recommend posting a tangentially political meme at some point on Lemmy.
The amount of people who will come out of the woodwork to tell you ‘don’t post this’ and ‘don’t make things political’ will really be eye opening.
People don’t want to address systemic issues and think not talking about them is a viable solution.
Just making comments about rich people and their taxes seems to do the same thing here.
Don’t even have to go THAT far, I get called a commie for saying a 40 hour work week should provide basic shelter these days. 🤷
If we want to live in boring reality, it doesn’t happen a LOT but way more than it should.
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Being able to afford rent takes yachts away from starving billionaires!
Those yachts provide jobs for the yacht builders and yacht operators of the world. Society needs these things far more than other things like basic human rights and dignity
I mean that was and is a basic communist agitating point, you might be closer to a communist than you think.
I don’t know if this is supposed to be snarky or not but I’ve accepted a while ago that I’m definitely some version of “leftist.”
I don’t see myself that way necessarily but capitalists are drawing their line in the sand so far to the right that it is what it is lmao
It was meant to be snarky as in laughing with you not at you.
Gotcha. I’ve always seen myself as a centrist, not particularly anti capitalist, just into safety nets and less car centric infrastructure.
Nowadays I get called a commie for talking about public transit, I’m a commie for the work comment, list goes on. I don’t buy into your red scare bs guys, if that stuff makes me a commie then I’m a commie les fuckin gooooooo
We do want adress systematic issues, just in the right communities. When i visis memes i wanna see funny memes. In dankmemes i wanna see dank memes. In NCD i wanna see non credible military stuff.
That’s the issue
this was a funny meme to me thanks
Yeah, because we don’t particularly fancy being lectured by teenagers on the Internet.
Everyone time something controversial is posted, damn I missed out on all the discussion because Blahaj.zone defederated all these capitalist losers so I can just think about being trans and cracking jokes.
Honestly if this meme passes for controversial then the world has gotten a whole lot more lame.
Omg you are so right 😮💨
I wouldn’t call it controversial outside of fediverse. It’s dumb tankie takes. In any other sampled population with significant size their opinions would be considered extreme and buried.
And let me be clear, I like socialist programs. But these people are truthers for the left.
Blahaj zone also defeterated fascists, Tankies, etc! They’re based as hell!
These capitalist and billionaire cocksuckers sure love socialism when they socialise their losses and fucking take our tax payer money to bail themselves out. if you’re working class and don’t support socialism, you should look into it more. Propaganda from these blood sucking billionaire ghouls have made most of us blind to the better life socialism can offer us.
That isnt socialism, thats the capitalist state doing its job of protecting capital. Socialism is when the proletariat own the means of production.
Yes i agree. Just pointing out the fact there’s no free market. When they lose, they still win by taking our hard earned money and using it to further their interests. I’d be happier if it were used for our welfare instead.
Id argue that the free market incentivizes the capture of politicians but I think we are on the same side here.
You think you are arguing with the people accepting handouts on lemmy?
I am just happy to be dancing for once.
And with a partner who is undoubtedly attracted to you no less!
Look at you go.
So everybody on Lemmy is non-capitalist is what you’re saying?
A large proportion of Lemmy are not pro-capitalist, yes.
Thats still very much generalizing. What this meme essentially says is that if you’re a capitalist, you’re not part of Lemmy.
On a seperate note, you cant possibly know how many people on Lemmy actually support capitalism or not. It has a left tendency, yes, but I bet the majority of Lemmx users do support caputalidm in some shape or form.
No, it is saying that if you are capitalist, you will get pushed into a corner by downvotes and can’t enjoy the discussion as much as everyone else.
As is clearly shown with this comment.
If you actually read the posts made here on Lemmy (and I don’t mean the hexbear lemmygrad ones) you should still clearly see a contempt towards the capital class.
The upvote ratio on this comment (which is at 15up to 15down currently) is in no way representative of Lemmy. At best its representative of this specific community (memes@lemmy.ml).
Does anyone here own capital? As in being haut bourgeoisie? Probably not.
If you support capitalism and you’re not a capitalist you’re just a bootlicker.
And you live on your own self-sustaining compound, posting from your open hardware, fabricated in free factories, Libre software OS and applications, with compost-generated power? Didn’t think so. Welcome to the gray zone bootlicker.
“If you dont own factories you dont benefit from the system, you should not defend it”
“Oh okay, so you have completely isolated yourself from the system then?”
No, that’s not the point, the point is to end the exploitation, not escape it, which is always a fanciful idea as you cannot escape the indirect effects of it. Also do you think almost anyone is capable of doing the things you mentioned? You’d have to be really wealthy to do those things.
You used the wrong quote from yourself. What you quoted from me was a reaction to this gem of a statement:
If you support capitalism and you’re not a capitalist you’re just a bootlicker.
which is black and white, and typical of us-good versus them-bad argument fallacies. If you live and participate in a capitalist system, as the vast majority of humanity does, you are, to some degree, supporting it.
Based on the comments in this thread I take your position to be it’s a matter of degree of support. Owning a truck isn’t capital, it’s apparently got to be a lot to make someone a capitalist. That is not leftist or anti-capitalist, but simply “eat the rich”. Most people exist in classes that participate in ways that keep the lower earners below. I do not believe most humans think this great system for all but feel helpless, and participate as a way to simply exist.
Surely spreading insulting, erudite rhetoric in online is not the solution.
Owning a truck isn’t capital, it’s apparently got to be a lot to make someone a capitalist.
Owning a truck for personal transportation is literally personal property, not private property. Can you give me a quick definition according to Marxists of personal and private property?
Because you speak as if you’re qualified to define leftist:
That is not leftist or anti-capitalist, but simply “eat the rich”.
I do not believe most humans think this great system for all but feel helpless,
That is capitalist realism for you.
Does anyone here own capital? As in being haut bourgeoisie? Probably not.
If you support capitalism and you’re not a capitalist you’re just a bootlicker.
How do you define “capital”? I own a paid-off vehicle. That’s my biggest single asset. Am I therefore evil? It’s parked in the garage of this home I rent. Used car market right now means it’s worth a bit more than it would be otherwise.
Oh, and I’m also a shareholder in my employer. Gasp!
All this talk is highly dangerous us-vs-them, black-and-white divisive crap that isn’t going to go anywhere productive. Stop it. Grow up.
Owning a car is not bourgeois. Owning a business is.
If you could stop going to work tomorrow and still pay your bills because your assets are generating sufficient income to cover your expenses and still accumulate, you’re in the capital class. If you trade your time and labour for income and quitting work would mean your resources will get depleted, you’re working class.
And if you think that you’re not working class because you sit in an office and work on a computer, then that’s exactly what the ownership class wants you to believe so you’ll be happy with your lot and not rock the boat.
How do you define “capital”? I own a paid-off vehicle. That’s my biggest single asset. Am I therefore evil?
Oh my god, we aren’t coming for your toothbrush. The idea that owning anything makes you a capitalist is absurd. We are talking about businesses that alienate workers like yourself from their labor.
Oh, and I’m also a shareholder in my employer. Gasp.
And if you had enough shares to live off of you wouldn’t be renting. You’re a member of the proletariat, not even the petite bourgeoisie who still have more to gain by overthrowing capitalism.
All this talk is highly dangerous us-vs-them, black-and-white divisive crap that isn’t going to go anywhere productive. Stop it. Grow up.
Maybe instead of being afraid of shadows you should read what socialists actually believe. We believe that the means of production (aka your workplace) should be owned and managed by the workers (you) and not some board who see the business as a paycheck every month (and probably don’t understand how it actually functions) overseen by a democratic body to coordinate between businesses. We claim to live in a democracy but nowhere is this more evidently wrong then workplaces, which are almost always run as dictatorships…what little political agency employees exercise has to be won in conflict to the goals of the system.
We oppose land commodification. People, especially children and the elderly, should not be at risk of being evicted from where they live, and if they have income they should just contribute to the collective maintaining and construction of property which is generally 5 percent of income, not 1/3 of a paycheck like it is under capitalism with all the middlemen leeches.
Yes, I probably have assets valued at .5-1M that I’ve accumulated with my family.
Okay, that at most makes you petite bourgeoisie not haut bourgeoisie. But I’m guessing you can’t live off of your passive income so you’re still proletariat. You have more in common with the proletariat than not, and you have more to gain by overthrowing capitalism then preserving it.
👌👍
Keep moving those goal posts.
Yes, the goal posts of definitions created by a guy who has been dead for more than 100 years. Clarifying a misunderstanding on a basic concept of Marxist analysis of capitalism written more than 100 years ago is moving the goalposts.
Also, can you live entirely off your passive income? If not, youre not even petite bourgeoisie.
👌
The quality content I’ve come to expect from lemmy.world users.
You wouldn’t be any better off on a socialist system. The people at the top of the party would control everything and the working class would be even poorer than they are now. You’re just licking the left boot instead of the right one.
This is empirically untrue, but also just nonsense. Politicians do not have the same class relationship as capitalists with the proletariat.
Oh I’m sorry i didn’t realize there was empirical evidence for socialism. Please send me a link to some of these successful socialist societies.
I’m not a socialist by any means (well, I have been called one by republicans…) but I’ve always hated this argument. The USSR and China are the only two I’m aware of that weren’t massively screwed over in their infancy by the US, and/or (usually and) manipulated by the USSR.
The USSR was literally invaded in its infancy by France Britain and the US. Trust me the USSR was getting fucked with by bourgeois dictatorships since the beginning.
Then you shouldn’t go around saying it’s “empirically true” because at best there is no evidence.
I’ve literally cited evidence before you left this comment lmao.
Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos for starters China went from a century of humiliation to a superpower in less then a century thanks to socialism. The USSR was better than the feudalism before it or the dictatorships of the bourgeoisie that came after it by a wide margin. For a place much poorer than the US, they had similar nutrition, better education, more rights for women both legalistically and practically.
Oh, throw in east Germany too. Do you know what the Stasi did to the lgbt movement that they saw as subversive? Destroy it by ending discrimination against gay and trans people, including a massive education campaign to eradicate homophobia and transphobia and state funded gay bars. Compare that to how the US was treating gay people at the time.
Dang, for a moment I considered that you might have independent thoughts. This LemmtGradChatGPT BS ruined it.
Yes, yes. It is cool and subversive to support capitalism, or at least oppose its alternatives.(aka support capitalism) You’re part of the cool club of people who act in the interests of the bourgeoisie and not of your own class. A real independent thinker.
(Not that any of us are independent thinkers, but one of us is defending the powers that be and calling the other a chatbot)
You have no idea what systems I support, yet you assume I support capitalism because I didn’t agree with you, which says a lot. The only evidence of my beliefs I have provided is that I do not support your approach. Further, I do not believe your rhetoric is a genuine attempt to make the world any better for anyone.
Oh, so you are an anticommunist “leftist” then?
Edit: your post history seems to indicate you’re a social democrat, which is just capitalism with a welfare state. Aka capitalism.
Fake. There are no women here.
I have moobs and long hair, just keep dancing bro.
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Yeah, and I am the real Tony Hawk!
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Real. There are a few women here
Yes there are. Stop being weird. (Am woman)
holy shit can we see an actual meme on this instance?
Non-stop circle jerking
Has to be breaking a rule by this point
I think what you are looking for is called
Shitposting. 😅oh, no!
its politics on the marxist-leninist instance’s meme community!
Never mind that not a single one of them pipes up when some lazy fascist bullshit gets posted here.
Only when it’s left of like 1990s Biden then they all lose their fuckin minds.
The delusional thought process is fantastic.
You have, maybe 2k users here, defederate a new insurance a day, and users are constantly finding lack of content; but yeah it’s the normal user who is quite in the corner 🤣
mmm salty
👌🤣
Mince you into fertilizer 😂 Reminds me of Soylent Green and Oddworld
Capitalists need workers to oppress. Without them, they would have nothing to give them a feeling of superiority. Mincing people into fertilizer would surely be a fun pastime for the rich, but it’s hardly a sustainable hobby
Capitalists don’t care about sustainability.
They would if those workers were trying to unionize.
Free Market Capitalism would bring back slavery if we let them.
Free Market Capitalism
Oxymoron
You have a rather one dimensional moustache twirling view of the world. Let me guess, communism is the one stop solves all problems in the world solution without any negative side effects?
You do understand that that is not how the world works, or for that matter, how anything works?
Seriously, your comment is plain nonsense. Yes, captialism has a shitload of issues. Yes, there are rich and abusive people out there. Yes, communism is responsible for countless millions of deaths and tortured…
Instead of making up weird fantasies, how about to try to come up with an idea that would actually make things better?
I missed the part where the person you’re replying to mentioned communism at all.
Don’t worry, The dude was just hurt that his world view was challenged and felt the need to strike out
If this one of the people the post mentions?
Neat! 📸
Thinking about how to make the world better starts with fantasizing, and moves on to theorizing and debating ideas. Calling the many decades of socialist and communist thought just fantasies goes beyond all reason. At this point you’re just ragebaiting. This is not how you talk to people.
Communism as Marx described, has to do more with the complete automatization of the means of production, and the subsequently change of the structure of society, as a result of post scarcity.
Remember that just past Mars humanity has a near infinite repository of resources, it’s only on this earth that we are subjected to the rat race, when we have the wealth of the universe so close.
You may think that I’m dreaming, but if we let capital unchecked, it will destroy us, and destroy earth. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
if we let our capital unchecked
I am all in favor for heavily regulated and checked capitalism. Like it or not, its the most successful system and it can be a source for good when heavily regulated and used as an input source for a socialist system that takes care of all.
Bad take
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Is this how lemmy debates online?
I’m about this close to going back on reddit. They’re idiots and commies over there but usually not both lol
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How bout I pejorative my mouth to your ass?
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Ive found that being commie and an idiot is the same thing
Bad take
I agree, really bad argumentation.
He wasn’t arguing, though lol. It was his opinion.
I replied to someone who had no interest in critically engaging and offered two weak and irrelevant options in efforts to downplay another commenters stance on a meme. A literal bad argument vs an opinion to a meme. Try again, you corny head ass 😂
Good comment
For the anti-capitalists, I have a genuine question (sorry, I couldn’t find an “ask a commie” community):
In the capitalist system there is a movement called Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE) where people commit to living frugally in an effort to maximize savings and investments. The goal is to achieve a balance that allows you live off a safe withdrawal rate (around 3.5-4%) and then leave the workforce at an earlier than normal age. Some people commit to a life of minimalism and lean-FIRE with under $20k in investment income per year. I believe there is significant overlap with the van-life crowd and other nomadic lifestyles.
Is this lifestyle compatible with, or is there a similar lifestyle within a communist system? To expand, can those with a different set of priorities trade away their later working days in exchange for less material things?
Let me put it this way. For capitalism to continue there’s an ever-marching goal of exponential profit. To get more profit you must work harder and the company must pay you less and work you longer. At some point you will be crushed. Nothing can expect exponential returns, yet capitalism constantly expects that.
Communism wouldn’t need retirement because such a society wouldn’t have an exponential motive for existence. Work would be done as needed instead of constantly more and more and more. I wouldn’t mind being in my 80’s and still “working” because all the work I’d do would have a direct positive result on my community instead of more money for someone pocketing the excess value of my labor over what they paid me.
Besides, who would need to push papers around for companies in an economic system that is moneyless and stateless? (communism is literally moneyless and stateless so USSR, China, Valenzuela, etc. are not communist since they have a state)
What? There are plenty of communist Lemmy subs you can ask in. I just think you haven’t tried hard enough.
To answer your question tho, no - because there would be no need. Communism does want mandatory participation, but if checked and balanced correctly everyone would work within their limits and not be relegated to a lower class of living - because that’s sort of the point of communism. You’d work within your means until there was time to retire without being limited in access to services and goods. Theoretically, under a functioning communist system, there would be no manufactured scarcity.
Tbh I believe both communism and our current form of capitalism centralises power and ownership way too much. Social-capitalism, or even libertarian socialism, might be the ticket. It would undo at least 200 years of psy-ops and gamed laws designed to favour the rich and vesting power in them, which is the issue of centralised power that we’re facing today - in what some call “late-stage capitalism” - or what I call the breaking point of society under a predatory, exploitative and imperialistic form of capitalism that seems more like the privatisation of the aristocracy than the supposed liberalisation of economy. Transparency, accountability and consequences for people in power and wealth is what’s sorely needed.
PS: New public management is a con-job disguised as decentralisation meant to encumber governments under the guise of checking and balancing them, being effectively a psy-op in of itself to make people hate public services and taxes. As per usual, goddamn liberals - and I include socially conservative liberals in that polifical grouping. Dems and pubs are the same, want the same institutions and promote US imperialism - not fiscal independence, no matter what justification and mental gymnastics they put in the form of spreadsheets.
PPS: Also, additionally, commodification of the housing market was a mistake. It will always be stupid and harmful towards society.
Where funny?
Get that mfer, kick his ass!
