With all the dismal news about America lately, my home, I’m starting to seriously look at where else to move.
Putting aside for now the difficulty of actually immigrating to some countries, I’m curious on the opinions of others (especially people living outside the U.S) on this.
What I’m looking for in a country is, I imagine, similar to many people. I’m trying to find somewhere that will exhibit:
- Low racism
- Low sexism
- Low LGBTQ-phobia
- Strong laws around food quality and safety
- Strong laws about environmental protection
- Strong laws against unethical corporate practices (monopoly, corruption, lobbying, etc)
- Strong laws for privacy
- Good treatment of mentally ill, homeless, and impoverished people
Those are the real important things. Of course the nice-to-haves are almost too obvious to be worth listing, low cost of living, strong art and cultural scene, nice environment, and so on.
My actual constraints that might really matter are that I only speak English (and maybe like A1-2 level German). It seems incredibly intimidating to try to find employment somewhere when I can hardly speak the language.
I know nowhere on Earth is perfect, just curious what people may have to suggest. I hope this question isn’t too selfish to ask here.
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Portugal, but they hate expats at this point because they got overrun by them in the last couple of years
You should instead put energy into your environment and community to make positive changes in your area.
Yes, I’ve thought about this a lot and do make efforts to improve my environment. But it’s disheartening, the vast majority of people in my community are extreme Trump supporters. I know people who threw parties to celebrate the renaming of the Gulf of Mexico. It’s hard to know how to improve my community in light of that, and in fact it’s hard to even want to.
But I am open to suggestions, what do you think are some of the best things I could do to improve my area?
I suggest developing a plan that is not just about building a better lifenfor yourself, but for others and community. For example, China ticks all of your boxes (yes, even privacy in comparison to the US), but it is also important to consider how you would personally make China better in the process, as you are, by moving, saying that your current conditions are pushing you to want to leave. So what about your current place of living was driven to that and how can this be made the case the world over?
Ultimately, capitalism is the underlying force of reaction, conservatism, and deprivation. It sets the guard rails of social policy, funds and purges the thought-moving forces of society. It creates homelessness. It destroys countries and societies, forcing them to adopy defensive and antagonistic positions to be viable and not only dominated. So I would recommend also thinking of this question in terms of how you might build your life as well as do well in fighting capitalism. As, ultimately, if this force is not recognized, you might find a place that ticka your boxes but is ultimately a forcr for capitalist expansion, e.g. most OECD countries. This wouldn’t make you a bad person but it is a major wrinkle in the idea of building a good life by finding a place based on these (all very reasonable) boxes to tick off.
China is very much not low racism. You will encounter quite a lot of racism especially if you are black. Everyone is different but the racists are far more public about being racist.
China is low racism, particularly compared to other options. The racism experienced by black people in China is more that of unfamiliarity than bigotry. It does not come from the same place as white supremacy and does not have the same meaning or function.
One of my closest friends has been living in China for several years now. He’s white, and his wife’s Chinese parents said to his face, “at least you aren’t black”. People there casually refer to black people by the slur. I know there’s many racists in the west too, but in Australia I can make progress as a minority, in China it’s institutional, and in your face. Hard to feel part of the community if you are from a race that is discriminated.
That said, I was told it’s less due to straight up hate and more from ignorance.
Cool you have a friend and used it to broad brush 1.4 billion people.
Anglo settler ass logic.
Well other than growing around a large community of Han Chinese immigrants who all have different views on it sure. They are all generally aware of the racism issues in China particularly against black people. I’m assuming you have a much broader experience in China yourself and have seen otherwise outside of forums? If so I’d be more than happy to be wrong. But if first hand accounts from people who love China tell me that the country has a major issue with rampant racism, and have even told me that I wouldn’t be a good fit for the country due to not being light skinned, I’m obviously taking that to heart.
It’s possible to be critical of a country’s issues without implying that I’m accusing the entire population of being racist 🤷♂️
The way you speak of these things is so vague and unqualified that you yourself are basically dancing around the fringes of racism. Do you not know what racist logic looks like, e.g. denigrating entire ethnic groups or nationalities based on rumors, anecdotes from “a friend”, and half-remembered guesswork?
As I have consistently stated, racism exists in China but it is a low racism country overall. As you have admitted, the racism you will tend to encounter in China is naivete and not something deeper and malicious, which is what Anglos project from the white supremacy they are familiar with and help maintain in the countries they live in. You are in Australia. Australia is an Anglo settler colonial project premised on the genocide of indigenous Australians. You say you prefer to live there rather than experience rumored racism in China from a vague host of Han people (Han Chinese can refer to people from many countries, regions, ages, etc). Presumably you don’t really care about indigenous Australians and are somewhat naive about what most white Australians think of you, and you are trying to get by as “one of the good ones”, i.e. the subtly white supremacist liberal approach to race and ethnic background. If not, I’d be curious about your perception of how you are treated when adopting beauty standards drawn from your ethnic background(s) and when you politically challenge the violent liberal status quo. When the cops come to break up your direct action on Palestine (do you do anything remotely challenging white supremacy?), who stands with you?
But contrary to what you’re thinking, you can get by just fine in China and advance. But you might not be in a society propped up by imperialism and genocide and therefore need to work longer hours on top of learning a new culture.
Re: my familiarity with China, I am completely confident in what I’m saying and don’t need to tell internet stories about friends or rumors I heard to pretend at knowledge to broad brush countries and ethnic groups. If you don’t believe me, just go yourself. It is very inexpensive for Australians and you can spend a week or two in advance finding people who actually integrated locally and traveled to show you the ropes.
Im a migrant to Australia. It’s true Australia has loads of issues involving racism. That said I DO have the right to protest, and vote towards a better future. And I can, and do, get involved with my community to do what I can regarding those topics. Importantly though I can live in the country and not face racism daily nor often get treated differently because of the way I look.
Regardless I’m obviously going to take the word of the actual Chinese migrants I know of, and the people I know living in China, over strangers on the internet. You’re allowed to have your own opinions on it, I just don’t think it’s a great idea to hand wave the racism issues in China, particularly for people who are black or brown.
Yeah because Han superiority complex doesn’t exist right?
If you are white you get stares and reverse racism until you mess up then real racism. If you’re black you just get racism.
That it, generally speaking, false.
Well you obviously haven’t been to or lived in China for any period of time and most likely have an idealistic view of the country. Chinas a great place but being ignorant to its rampant racism is just silly. Because you’re certainly wrong. Waste of time comment.
Exactly. If you are financially stable and can fit within what is considered socially acceptable then it’s a great place to live.
China is a great place no matter your financial status :) You can survive on a lot less than the west. What is socially acceptable in someways in more open than the west too but in others less.
Great place to live and such great people
Its worth noting I mean as an immigrant who is not ethnically Chinese. It’s a tough place to adapt to if you aren’t financially stable. Do note that my knowledge comes from the experience of people from Australia.
I deeply agree with the community aspect. I can see how my original post came off as self-centered, but it’s always been my vision to be an active contributor to the local and larger communities of wherever I live. I am generally a pro-social person and do my best to help my local community. I definitely agree that building a strong community is vital to the criteria I’m looking for. It’s just that my current community feels largely like a lost cause. We certainly have a subculture that is what I’m looking for, but it’s just that - a subculture. And while that may be comforting and nice, it’s not enough to get politicians to listen.
I try to stave off the harms of capitalism as best I can while also balancing my own happiness for my limited time on Earth. But that’s a topic I’m sure we could both write essays about, so maybe best to save that for another time.
Privacy, food safety and environmental regulation basically mean Europe, but then Europe has crazy anti-migrant sentiment at this point. So, maybe one of the Scandinavian countries that’s still relatively welcoming? Portugal might also track, if you don’t mind a country that’s economically moribund.
Come to Canada, the weed is legal
Canada is certainly tempting if only on the basis that I would be closer to my family, and my family closer to me. And the recent election results were very relieving. Weed is legal here too though, haha.
the election results are much closer than you’d think. Popular vote had only a couple % lead. Everyone had to abandon voting for their preferred small party (e.g. greens, BQ, or NDP) to get liberals enough seats to beat the conservatives.
Yeah we’re far from perfect, but for better or worse we would be to smallest culture shock (it would kinda feel like moving to a new state).
Spain is kind of nice, based on your list. I’ve been considering it.
Same here. UK is done for.
Thanks, for some reason Spain has never been near the top of my consideration. I suppose that’s because it’s not one of those classic “top ten” type of countries that seem to always be at the top of lists of good things. But it seems the margins of improvement are slim between top 30 and top 10, so I’ll have to look more into that.
Was personally worked from Spain for half a year last winter and in my experience it is nice, but I found it harder to mingle with the Spanish at times. Their English was not amazing and it seems they have a tight knit community, with which I mean if you are not family it’s hard to get in.
I personally would consider Portugal more. I have a few very nice Portuguese colleagues which maybe helps because they show us around when we’re there, but in general I found it easier to connect to people there. And apart from the climate (Portugal can be very wet and a little bit cooler because of the ocean), they have all the good things Spain has (food, drink, a more laid back way of celebrating live). And they have pasteis de nata, which is a reason to live there in itself.
Just be careful with eating francesinha during lunch.
Spain vs Portugal is a tough one… Spain has better protections on paper but the people can be more vocal when opposing something they don´t like. Portuguese, in general, are far more amicable and genuine, specially outside the too touristic areas, but prospective for jobs to foreigners is slim outside the two main cities. Yes, Portuguese are far more amicable than Spaniards, but, like I mentioned in other post, the test is put when circumstance change, with the flock of foreigners buying property in Lisbon an Porto, they are far less welcoming there now too. For the long term, Spain, has a better track record, if you ask me.
I often recommend Spain for US emigrants, quality of life and cultural norms are similar, and Spanish is easier to pick up when you’ve heard it as much as you do from US media.
Netherlands and Scandies have a great reputation, but there’s significant culture shock and you risk feeling more alienated for longer.
You called America your home. There is something to be said for home improvement. I’m fortunate to be dual citizen, so I could leave whenever I want. I choose not to because it is where my parents, my sister and her kids are. I’ll stay here and make whatever improvements, however small they are, as long as my folks still live here.
Yes, I wouldn’t be renouncing U.S citizenship unless I really had to. I’ve stayed this long precisely because I don’t want to leave the “problem spot” and cause it to only have extremists left over living here. I do try to support events and businesses that support causes I agree with, but that’s about all there is to do as far as I can see. As I said in other comments, I would truly prefer to fix things here, as I like many things about my life here. But it’s starting to feel like I’m complicit in something wrong by remaining a resident and I’m not sure what to do about it.
I think this is a very valid question. Sometimes the grass really is greener on the other side.
I like it here in Germany. Laws and social safety are relatively strong. Oftentimes I see an article about some chemical common in food being a cancer risk, and then I research it and see that it is a US-centered article and that the EU already banned the chemical years ago.
Right wing populism is strongly on the rise here though. Racism and LGBTQ-phobia will strongly depend, with smaller villages and regions in East Germany being worse on average.
If you’re a top earner, you most likely won’t get the crazy high salaries here that you might expect from the US (even if accounted for cost of living, childcare etc).
Bureaucracy is annoying.
Rent can be very high depending on the region.
Job market strongly favors German speakers. I heard the Netherlands are more open in that regard. I think this will be your biggest hurdle.
also in my experience, while a lot of Germans are happy to chat with you in English in a social setting, business talk is usually expected to be held in German
What I learned about Germany most recently is that it’s super-mega FOSS-prioritizing, which is awesome!
It’s not Super-Mega FOSS-prioritizing, but there are some efforts into that direction.
Just noticed I used “strongly” three times in the post. Gonna need to find new adverbs.
My German teacher had a fairly profound impact on my life, I knew him for four years and he was absolutely enamored with everything about Germany. Like the German equivalent of a weeb. Some of that has transferred to me, I like basically every aspect of German culture I’m familiar with, especially the sense of humor. Since I already have some language familiarity, it’s always been near the top of my list, until recently with the AfD stuff giving me a bit of a fright. Although I saw they were recently classified as extremists, which was reassuring (thanks Lemmy for being such a good news source!)
It’s of course too bad to hear about the rural racism, especially since I’d prefer a rural place of living, but it seems those two things always go together to some extent.
I’m certainly going to enroll in classes for whatever language corresponds to my target country. I really want to be an exemplary citizen of anywhere I go. I feel it’s an honor to be accepted for a visa somewhere so I don’t want to take that lightly. My biggest concern is just that I won’t be that great with the target language despite my best efforts.
Thank you very much for your insights and kind words!
Don’t be discouraged by the language learning. Most places you can find intensive classes that meet several times a week. It’s also a matter of studying and absorbing as much comprehensible input as possible. Surround yourself with the language like you’re a baby learning everything about the world anew, and you’ll be amazed at how quick you pick things up. Our brains are literally made to learn language, after all :P
Funny enough, you are looking at the countries with the most homogeneity and lesser levels of multiculturalism per capita. In this case the most white countries, like Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Luxembourg, et al.
They all have what you are looking for. However, many of there are either fairly expensive, have less than optimal weather or have fairly strict laws, unless you are an EU member or want to ask for asylum, political or otherwise.Like other have mentioned, at a recent WEF meeting, at DAVOS earlier in the year, the President of Spain stated that he wanted to ban encryption, or have access to encrypted services… Why? For your protection, obviously. Do a search on Youtube and you will find the video. Keep in mind the presentation is fairly long. You may be able to find a clip of it.
The UK and Germany have gone down the drain when it comes to privacy laws and they are heading straight into Big Brother or 1984 territory. No joke. So those should be avoided.
Like other have said, Uruguay and Argentina are pretty good options albeit both Argentina and Chile are not doing too well economically for now. But I do have a friend who is moving to Argentina, albeit he is fluent in Spanish so for him it won’t be hard.
Other possible options are Australia but if you think owning a home is hard in the USA, then you have seen nothing yet in Australia. New Zealand is also a good option, too although like some other countries at the top of the list, moving there can be a tad difficult Re: Red tape, albeit it is a bit easier if you are part of the Common Wealth, which I assume you are not.
Sweden
Lol.
Not the Spanish President, but the Spanish Prime Minister
Officially, the Spanish Prime Minister is called the President of the Government
For real, where do you get that the President of Spain wants to ban encryption?! That debate has been held in Germany, France and UK but not precisely in Spain… like nothing at all. In that talk President Sanchez just talked about the massive and pernicious powers social media have in the society (true) and that he supports the EU Digital Services Act (DSA), at highly misguided and bad thing, but not spearheaded by Spain. None of that is wanting to ban encryption… letś no mention almost impossible to enforce properly too. If digital freedom is your aim, options like Australia is a bit off, you are good until you touch sensitive things for the US.
Where do I get it? I literally said where, there is a Davos presentation he did. Didn’t I say that? I did not say that it was debate, it was something that he was pushing for in his speech. Find the video.
With that said, it is not like this is new. You are just unaware. Example:
https://www.wired.com/story/europe-break-encryption-leaked-document-csa-law/
"The source of the document declined to comment and requested anonymity because they were not authorized to share it.
“It is shocking to me to see Spain state outright that there should be legislation prohibiting EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” says Riana Pfefferkorn, a research scholar at Stanford University’s Internet Observatory in California who reviewed the document at WIRED’s request. “This document has many of the hallmarks of the eternal debate over encryption.”__**"
Also you are right, he also want so remove anonymity… for your protection, of course.
Thanks for that wired link. Was not aware of it. It is 2 years old but important still. Now, that is not from the president of Spain, but its minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska, a extremist and, I would say, a compromised guy that works more for foreign entities than Spain’s interest and should have been fired long ago. For instance, last week he signed a contract with a Israelś company to purchase munition… the outrage in the coalition government was such that Sanchez had to step in and canceled the already signed contract.
On wanting to stop anonymity, 100% with you, but hard to find any leader is not on board with that.
Yeah, I find this drive towards a 1984 dystopia concerning. Given that it comes equally from both, Right-wing and Left-wing governments. The UK is going insane and they lean right, and so is Germany and they lean very Left. Spain leans very left and look at what they are doing. Also, I sit corrected and it is not the president of Spain but the Prime Minister of Spain --which is worse-- as per my Telesur link regarding the WEF, people can still find the clip of his speech if they are interested.
I will update my previous post and correct myself, either way, he is a literal Socialist and he is the one that wants to eliminate online anonymity… For your protection, of course. ;-) LOL
Up here in Canada, the Liberal government passed amendments to 2 Laws during the pandemic, when they pushed for bogus Emergency Powers, just for a couple of days in which they sneaked these changes, that allows them to freeze people’s banks accounts on almost a whim, some people got their bank accounts frozen because they donated to a group that the Liberals did not like, despite not doing anything illegal. It was due to just wrong think.
It is insane but still most Canadians are not aware of these changes because the news media barely covered it. I happen to follow politics closely and read Bills and law for fun, so I know about them but I have yet to meet an average Canadian who is aware of this, unless they are into politics or study political science or something akin to it.
I mean, I have lived in 3rd world countries with better legal protections than what Canada is turning into under the Liberal party. I say that as someone who leans Left.
Ad someone who goes to Canada every two months in the last 15yrs, I had witnessed the regression not only in the liberties, but also mood of the people. No one would have guessed a decade ago how a country with so much potential and human capital would had become in this state! I would not only blame the Liberal party though… it is something bigger than them, same in the US… and most of the West.
As a Canadian I can tell you that politically everything wrong, or almost all wrong with the country is literally the Liberal Party’s fault. They have been in power for a decade, already.
All, or almost all of their policies have made the country worse. It is easy for idealogues out there to blame the conservatives but in reality the Libs pushed for all the things that broke the country.
From extreme immigration that increased crime, El Salvador is now safer than Toronto, to the price of housing, to making drugs more accessible via their Safe Supply program. That sounds good in make believe land but horrible in practice.
Which saved more “users’ lives” at the cost of increasing the number of overall drug addicts, everywhere. Same happened in Seattle and Cali, as well as in Portugal where this whole scheme was copied from.
You can tell by seeing the ratio increase of users and deaths in the provinces that pushed for this policy over the ones that didn’t.
Can’t even really blame the conservatives as the Libs and the NDP --which was Lefty but devolved to being Lib-Lite- created a collation as to bypass their vote in most cases. So they passed a lot of stuff easily and mostly on their own.
It is a mistake to not blame the Liberal party only because they have the word “Liberal” in their name. Trudeau alone was found guilty of 4 ethic violations, one including his family, so just straight up corruption. So, yes, we could blame the bad Covid handling and the NDP as well, if we want to nickpick. With the later now a shadow of its former self. The NDP leader sold out the party and the government, so he could be eligible for his fat government pension. He announced his retirement immediately after and lost his riding just after that. They got destroyed in the recent election, too.
Carney has already been got caught lying, a few times, saying one thing to English speakers and the 180° opposite to French speakers regarding infrastructure projects because he needed their votes and he just recycled a ton of the same people in government. There are other examples.
He ran as being an outsider when anyone with eyes knows that he is not. He is even the godfather of one of the kids of Freeland, the previous Finance Minister (who is now the Transportation Minister under him) who quit the job, the morning she was supposed to table their budget that was over $20 Billion over the number they had stated before because she is a coward and was looking after her career first, along with 0 sense of real accountability. She quitting put us in a constitutional crisis and we went through not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 finance ministers in 24 hours, including her. Then she ran for the leader of the Liberal party before losing to Carney, but as stated she is in the new Cabinet anyway.
We literally applauded an ex-Nazi SS soldier in parliament because the Libs wanted PR points and come off as pro-Ukraine but did 0 vetting on the guy. This was supposed to be done by the office of the PM. They are that incompetent and threw another guy, the Speaker of the House under the bus and forced him to quit, as to save face. Fucking embarrassing.
Their biggest selling point was, “we are not Conservatives.” Which is funny as the Libs literally copied a bunch of Con campaign/platform promises, rebranded them, and sold them as theirs. I am not a conservative but holy shit the Libs are so incompetent. Not really positive about the new guy, either. Once you get past the new paint job, it is just more of the same. He became the Leader of the Libs by decree of the party and paid about $250,000 to run, as he was never elected by anyone in the public or held a riding. Which is a first in our system.
He just got inserted. That is not very Liberal nor democratic.
The loss of Liberties was all Liberal policy too. They fear monger people and then remove liberties for “our” protection, of course. It is sad to see the country go down this fast.
After been in 5 continents in 30+ countries and living in 6… the best for your requirements is Spain. Spain, even the opposing parties are unlikely to touch most of those protections since it has wide support among the population. Now, Spain is not panacea, it still has stigma against Gypsies, older people face job discrimination, etc.
Regarding privacy is OK, more due to inaction than protection but far better than most neighbors in the north.
On corruption… the ‘perception’ is that there is plenty but no more than I witnessed in countries like Germany, UK or USA… the difference is that corruption in Spain is highly exposed by rival parties/media while in the other countries it is no so sensationalized, that is why of the increase ‘perception’. By the way, Scandinavia, that I used to admire, above local governments, I don´t see it much better on corruption levels, specially since late 2000s.
Regarding foreigners, Spain has many offers in certain jobs, where English is a requirement, but not easy at all for more common jobs where the local language is what is mostly used, even if you dominate it well. Now, you will be surprised how many companies are moving jobs to Spain since it is easier to attract talent to Barcelona or Malaga than to Berlin or Grenoble… and they save in salaries.
Now, if you put less emphasis in sexism and LGBTQ, certain countries in Latin America like Mexico or Uruguay, or across the ocean others like Malaysia may be more appealing, it is not that they are expressively against those groups, it is just they demand a more quiet sexual expression from you.
Lastly, countries like Australia, New Zealand and the like have become so corrupt at high level and against privacy and freedom of expression in certain topics, should be disregarded if you emphasis on that. Ireland, is the only exception in the Anglo world, now, like Switzerland and Norway, they are floating in money o every one is okay while economies are good… the test comes, as always, come in challenging times. Till, then, consider those three too.
Spain is one of the main supporters of the infamous chatcontrol and wants to ban encryption. So, please tell me more about Spain and its stance on privacy …
Chat control, ban encryption? Where do you get that? I follow occasionally Spanish politics and never came across that. It may have been raised by some lone politician but highly unlikely to happen, unless other countries like France or Germany does it first, nor the people will follow with any mandate. The problem is if the main opposition party gets in power… they are more inclined to do that but even there I don´t see it spearheading any of that by themselves.
The Spanish government has a very strong opinion on this:
https://www.techradar.com/news/spain-seeks-to-ban-encryption-leaked-document-reveals
Spain’s vision appeared to be the most extreme, with the nation’s leaders apparently seeing the access to citizens’ data as “imperative” to allow authorities catching criminals in the virtual world.
Spain wasn’t just the strongest fan of the bill, but it also argued how EU-based providers should be ideally prevented from implementing E2E in the first place. Of a similar stance was Poland, suggesting that parents should have the power to decrypt children’s chats. Among other supporters for the Chat Control proposalare Cyprus, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia and Romania.
There are many more news articles about this.
Again, that seems to be a personal vendetta of the minister Grande-Marlaska that keeps going secretly against the government policy (like the recently Israeli munition purchase that wast promptly canceled). No parliament debate on encryption or even public debate has been brought up at all. If it does, the minute it comes up, it would be turned down swiftly by the current coalition government. The President has no made any statement on banning encryption either, nor I think he would either. However, he did talk on identification on social media, but he will not spearhead that, nor it is doable to implement for now.
This is the official position of the Spanish government in the European Council. And it is unchanged for the last years. This is no “personal vendetta” or some secret agenda. Spain is again and again voting against encryption.
Maybe you should google that stuff.
US ex pat here:
I think you will find more success in this if you find a place or two you want to live in and run TO something instead of AWAY from something. It’ll always be a bit of both, but this post reads more like (very understandably) “get me out of here” than “I want to be somewhere new”.
Being an ex pat has plenty of hard aspects of course. I think some of them are made quite a bit easier when you passionately dive into the culture and life in a new place. At least to me it would be impossible if my head was still in the US.
Of course you’re doing nothing wrong! Just some advice if it gets a bit more serious.
Like many in the thread: Canada, Australia/New Zealand, Scandinavia, Germany, UK (not that they’re doing fantastic right now), Netherlands would be my top choices with your criteria. Most large companies will be more likely to have English speaking as the working language and you’ll learn the local language (s) while living there. Best of luck!
“At least to me it would be impossible if my head was still in the US”. I completely understand it… contributing with taxes to these policies from Washington DC may feel appalling… Now, the US has plenty of small and diverse type of communities some would find remarkable, like bubbles within the Empire… some can easily find peace there. Emigrating to another country is not recommended, nor feasible to everyone, but just moving within the US can be day and night different. Moving just a few miles away and and your lifestyle and friends can potentially change almost as much as moving abroad, and still close to your family/job.
Yeah, some of that is the impromptu nature of this post. I’ve thought about moving to other countries since high school. I’m very interested in a lot of cultural things that are just vastly more prevalent and thriving in Europe. Sometimes it feels like I was born in the wrong place. So there are definitely places I’d love to run to. I visited Switzerland and it felt like heaven on Earth compared to my state. I wanted to move there long before Trump’s first election. But it seems that particular country is near impossible to move to, plus Swiss German seems particularly tough.
I really like learning about other cultures and such, I’m afraid I may have come off entirely wrong in the brevity and laser-focus of my original post.
Very interesting that you say the working language would be English. That’s fantastic news. I definitely think I can get to a basic conversational level with languages pretty quickly, but reaching the technical professional level is my big fear. So that’s very encouraging to hear that it may not be so dire as that at least in the Netherlands. Thank you for taking the time to respond!
Switzerland has many protections you want and the salaries are very good too. Now, I don´t consider life there as ideal thought. It is a bit depressing, so much beauty around but something is sad… reminds it of Paris… not to that extreme, but a bit like it. Of course it is a stable economy and you sense that peace of mind when there.
However it is not that democratic as they claim, for instance, twice the country voted for restriction on EU immigration (a silly thing since it greatly benefits the Alpine country and its society) but still the politicians keep dragging their feet and give excuses to disregard the resounding already decade old mandate (and at the benefit of the economy)… so wise yes, democratic not! Likewise, Switzerland has caved much to the powers of US and EU to several international topics so it is not the independent it used to be. Then it is the ethical aspect of collecting monies from spurious sources (Ireland lives of that too, but at least, the Celtics are more transparent of that)…
Yeah, certainly depends exactly where you go. A capital city and a rural town will feel extremely different on English speaking (and cultural/political views at that).
I think it’s quite possible to do though. Happy to chat or answer any specific questions you have, especially if they’re Scandinavia based.
It’s a tough choice to do something like you’re talking about but extremely fulfilling. I wouldn’t trade the decision for the world at this point. I wish you the best of luck!
I’m in a similar boat and was considering moving to Ireland or Chile. In the end, I couldn’t overcome the immigration requirements, so I decided to just move to a better state within the US. Not sure if it’s the best option, but maybe that could also improve things for you.
Toronto and Vancouver are expensive but you definitely get what you pay for
Honestly I don’t get what the hype with Toronto is. It costs like Vancouver but with Calgary’s weather and general vibes.
Toronto is amazing. It’s a lot like NYC but clean, better run, and less densely populated. My friend describes it as NYC run by the Swiss, and I’ve loved all the time I’ve spent there
The weather can be hit or miss, but it didn’t bother me, even with the endless snow. I’m moving there soon and I’m super excited for it.
Best of luck!
Good transit, good jobs, lots of cultural stuff, amazing food. The weather definitely isn’t great but it’s still consistently a few degrees warmer than Calgary in the winter. Vancouver obviously crushes both of them in this category.
Yeah, similar weather relatively speaking.
I’ve never been to Toronto, so I can’t talk too much trash, but I have been to Vancouver many times and experienced how awesome it is. And they both cost a similar amount!
i’'m tired of people complaining about bigoted america and “how i want to move to liberal europe”. move that lazy ass and topple that idiot in the white house and the system that makes him possible (yes, that means ditching the democrat party too).
My kid would like to still have a dad. One who is, ideally, not in prison or dead.
This would be great, but the hard truth is this will get you executed in the street, and this country is no longer worth dying for.
It may reach a boiling point eventually, but for now, given the choice, I think I’d prefer to move house than be murdered by my own military.
It’s important to consider trends and trajectories, while countries like Ireland and whatnot may appear to satisfy a lot of these, they are also struggling with the same decaying Capitalist system and are being dragged down by US decay as well. Countries like China that are improving rapidly might be more worth considering.
I agree.
China would get a -100/10 for privacy though.
About the same score as any Western country. Privacy isn’t really respected anywhere unless you force it yourself, too much money in big data.
In China it’s illegal to be private though. Skynet, the surveillance system is always watching you when your in public. You have to use phones thay are regulated by the government and you can’t have access to websites thay aren’t whitlisted by the government unless you use a vpn which as far as I know is illegal in China.
Western countries have similar levels of surveilance and regulation. The firewall and VPN bit is true, but that’s not for privacy so much as it is the desire to build up their own internet that can’t be dominated by the US. They are very wary of how western countries used propaganda to destabilize the USSR with outlets like Radio Free Europe.
