- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
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And the Gripen will be built here in Canada!!!
To be fair, we’ve manufactured a lot of parts for other country’s F35s so far. That’s quite standard for defense contracts. Still, if Saab commits to bringing more guaranteed manufacturing jobs than the F35 program, it could be worth it. If this gives us a leg up in F35 manufacturing bids, that could also be worth it. Feels like a strong play regardless of outcome.
Yeah, I saw that. I’m not sure how that 10k number relates to the number created by F35-related manufacturing so far.
We might not lose any jobs with dropping the F35. Canada is just allowed to bid on contracts to build parts for all the F35 production, not just our own.
Yeah, we might not. We could still bid on F35 production runs. I think the specifics will be quite important to determining what’s a good outcome.
Regardless, I like that we’re courting other options even if it just results in leverage elsewhere.
As a Linköping native, I can tell you right now how this is going to go down.
Saab will offer a really sweet deal including Canadian factories that can produce everything that Sweden makes for the Gripen. It will be on a short timeline and a good price. Canada will be locked in to help co-design the next generation of Swedish fighters.
Canada will use this as leverage against the USA. Then the USA will finally set their foot down and tell Canada in no uncertain terms that if they buy Gripen they’ll get locked out of various US weapons systems indefinitely and end up on the US’s shit list. But if they stop their ridiculous outburst they can get on the shortlist for some really cool destructive toys.
Also, aren’t we all supposed to be one team America, you me and Mexico, guy?
Canada will most likely cave and Gripen will have fulfilled its role as a bargaining chip. I wouldn’t even blame Canada, this is how it’s gone down almost every time in the past 30 years and Canada has much better reasons than most to keep on the US’s good side.
I fucking hope so
Please do
Now that the US is sending them to Saudi, how secure will they be from investigation by foreign adversaries?
Plus, the entire supply chain system of relying on the US for software and hardware updates, having to physically send the planes to the US for maintenance, all while the US continues to talk about annexing us is completely fucking bonkers.
Even without the annexation threats the setup would be stupid.
I know it’s a fancy and advanced plane, but knowing how the US military industrial complex works I’m pretty sure you’re paying a high multiplier for no reason too.
Super advanced, so advanced that Iran shot what 3 down?
There have been no confirmed downings of F-35’s.
While it’s fully possible that the US is lying about that, it’s equally possible that the claims from Iran are also lies, because half of military action is information and misinformation. I wouldn’t lean on foreign propaganda any more than I would domestic propaganda.
If you want a laugh, go look up the photos Iran doctored up for this bit of propaganda. I remember one had an F35 with cockpit the size of a school bus on it. Another had the tail section on backwards. Probably AI slop, but fake photos to be sure.
Oh I remember that one well.
Not only did they take down an F-35, they took down the biggest F-35 ever made!
It’s like defeating the Queen F35, now they can’t produce more little ones.
There have been no confirmed downings of F-35’s.
Several “oops this plane just fell off the flight deck, oh well, shit happens” articles in recent memory. A great way to explain why the Navy is suddenly down a vehicle without having to explain to anyone in the general public what happened.
I wouldn’t lean on foreign propaganda any more than I would domestic propaganda.
Americans are putting these jets into service and a surprising number of them are failing.
Whether Iran/Yemen have successfully struck any of them or the Navy can’t get them on and off the flight deck reliably is almost a moot point. A downed plane is a downed plane.
Sure, that all may be the case, but counterpoint: ospreys.
Is this a contest to crash the most aircraft?
Because my man, the GOAT, John “New Plane” McCain would like to have a word.
Several “oops this plane just fell off the flight deck, oh well, shit happens”
Those were F/A-18s.
Oh so this is the part where we provide no sources to our claim. Then claim the sources are unreliable!
I wanna remind everyone that THIS was one of the pictures Iran released to prove they shot down an F-35.
It was actually more like 0.
Try searching Google with “f-35 sales before:2024-11-01”. Countries were lining up to buy them. Boeing had a years long manufacturing backlog.
No matter how you, personally, feel about the F-35 and the US military-industrial complex, Trump wants to both increase exports in general and tout US military strength. Most of NATO running with the F-35 would have been great for both of those. He could have succeeded at it by doing nothing. Complete failure of his own goals.
Lockheed Martin. Boeing makes the F18 (for example)
The Gripen is certainly not as advanced as F-35 but its operating costs per flight hour are only 1/5th of the F-35 which is definitely a big consideration when you don’t have a US-sized defense budget.
What role does the jet have to fulfill? Fight off enemy planes in an invasion? If it’s the US that invades you wouldn’t want US tech, but it doesn’t really matter, the US would win. Russia invading? At this point they’re down to kites and helium balloons, right?
If it’s to fulfill a role within NATO, a Gripen is probably just as good as an F-35, because any enemy of NATO’s will almost certainly be many generations behind. China wouldn’t be, but neither Canada directly nor NATO is likely to get into a direct fighting war with China. Only maybe if Canada wanted to help defend Taiwan against Chinese aggression could that possibly happen. But, because Taiwan’s a small island, Canada’s Navy would probably be the main force involved.
In a few decades, things might already have changed. Missiles and drones might have made fighter jets essentially obsolete. So, it doesn’t make too much sense to buy something that’s massively expensive just because it’s the most up-to-date thing right now.
Likely there will be no such thing as a 6th gen fighter jet. The pilot will be replaced by AI, so the next gen will have completely different requirements.
I don’t think the “pilot will be replaced by AI”. I think there will just be drones that look nothing like fighter jets. Some might have a certain amount of autonomy, which is vaguely similar to “AI”. Others will be controlled remotely. Still others will probably be a mix, like a swarm that’s human-controlled but where the individual drones in the swarm are somewhat autonomous.
There’s no way remote-controlled drones are going to be top-shelf items in the next generation. Even now, comm interference pretty much prohibits the use of remote-controlled drones in any scenario which involves actual armies rather than shepherds with AKs. That’s why Ukraine uses fiberoptic cables for their FPV drones. Beyond that, in a real war satellite constellations will go down real fast.
I don’t think we know what the next war is going to be like. Yes, radio interference is a major challenge with the current generation, but there are already partial work-arounds like fiber.
Yeah, it’s unlikely that the next generation will be 100% remote controlled with no local autonomy because that requires a high bandwidth. But systems with a moderate amount of autonomy might be fine.
Fighter jets running on fiber?
Huh?
Canada should never trust any US military contractor ever again
I’ve been commenting on a bunch of threads the best way to deal with a bully is to tell them to fuck off and go play with everyone else in the playground. Glad we’re taking the first few steps in the right direction.
the best way to deal with a bully is to tell them to fuck off
Works best when the bully isn’t stupid rich and surrounded by psychopath security guards.
A big reason why oil-rich oligarchies buy American military hardware is to avoid getting the heavy end of the “regime change” stick bounced off their heads.
That’s cute and all but annexing Canada is literally in their agenda.
Thing the article conveniently leaves out, at least one of the “retired air force officers” works at (or did, seems to be some obfuscation) Lockheed Martin.
Of course they are against switching, they will lose their cushy lobbyist jobs.
I would.
I hope we snub those unhinged fash. Fuck them.
Do it Canada! Purchase the SAAB and your pilots will have more seat time. The F-35 is a maintenance pig.
Saabotage!
Do it!
It’s what happens when you harm and betray a peaceful ally. Let’s do this! 🍁
