Also mathematicians: here’s this cool new thing, I called it “infinitesimal”
Limit x->0 { x } = 0 ? Noway
Wait do you actually say “limit” instead of “limes” in English?
Yes, as in “Why can’t I hold all these limits?”
I usually uses lim
Yes.
Yeah, I was gonna say… Calculus is all about saying it’s infinitely approaching zero so let’s assume it is zero.
In computer engineering we have positive and negative zero.
Also in Math.
Unknowingly from the GP, that’s exactly where CE got it from.
What algebra uses negative 0?
When taking about limits, you can approach 0 from the positive or negative direction, which can give very different results. For example, lim cotx, x->0+ = ∞ while lim cotx, x->0- = -∞
Speaking as a mathematician, it’s not really accurate to call that -0.
Yes, but it is infinitesimally close.
You also can’t call something infinity. People call stuff names. It is just important that they define their terms well enough.
You also can’t call something infinity
Why do you think that?
IEEE 754
I mean it’s an algebra, isn’t it? And it definitely was mathematicians who came up with the thing. In the same way that artists didn’t come up with the CGI colour palette.
I’m not familiar with IEEE 754.
Edit: I think this sort of space shouldn’t be the kind where people get downvoted for admitting ignorance honestly, but maybe that’s just me.
IEEE 754 is the standard to which basically all computer systems implement floating point numbers. It specifically distinguishes between +0 and -0 among other weird quirks.
It’s a wonderful world where 1 / 0 is ∞ and 1 / -0 is -∞, making a lot of high school teachers very very mad. OTOH it’s also a very strange world where x = y does not imply 1 / x = 1 / y. But it is, very emphatically, an algebra.
Mostly it’s pure numerology, at least from the POV of most of the people using it.
I’ll need to look at it more; it sounds interesting.
Math is more than just the set of all algebras.
I’m aware. Algebra is what I’m most interested in, and so when someone says “0” I think “additive identity of a ring” unless context makes the use obvious.
Edit: I’ve given it some thought, and I’m not convinced all algebras can fit in a set, because every non-empty set can have at least one algebra imposed upon them, and so the set of all algebras must have cardinality no less than the proper class of all sets. We also can’t have a set of all algebras (up to isomorphism) because iirc the surreal numbers are an algebra imposed on a structure that itself incorporates a proper class, and is thus incapable of being a set element.
Depends, I’d say. Is your set theory incomplete or inconsistent?
What do you mean? In two’s complement, there is only one zero.
IEEE 754 floating point numbers have a signed bit at the front, causing +0 and -0 to exist.
Specifically I was referring to standard float representation which permits signed zeros. However, other comments provide some interesting examples also.
floats
1- 0,99999…
Floating point numbers are not possible in two’s complement, besides that, what is your point? 0,99999999… is probably the same as 1.
Yes, mathematically it’s the same, but in physics there’s a guy named Heisenberg who denies that 0.99999… really gets to 1. There is always this difference, for a mathematician infinite is not a problem, but for a physicist it is, plus a very big one.
True, it sounds like that might be a problem if we consider that physics has to be between math and computer science.
(Have a nice day)
And, as a mathematician who has been coding a library to create scaled geometric graphics for his paper, I hate -0.0.
Seriously, I run every number where sign determines action through a function I call “fix_zero” just because tiny tiny rounding errors pile up in floats, even is numpy.
A mathematician, a physicist and an engineer are led into a long room. At the other end stands a beautiful naked woman. “When I ring this bell,” she says" you may cross half the space between us. When I ring the bell again, you may again cross half the space between us." Both the mathematician and physicist groan and wander off. “Ah, it’s Zeno’s paradox, we can never actually reach her.” The engineer, waiting for the bell, says “I think I can get close enough.”
why is there a naked woman?
For the joke to work.
deleted by creator
Nope, had to be cakes out, specifically to piss off the people who get angry when they detect something men stereotypically enjoy.
Actually everyone listed in the joke is a lesbian…
Cakey snatch isn’t exactly my preferred choice but when in Rome.
i still don’t see what the point is.
Because a sexual relationship requires 2 people to touch, so it is a relatable setup.
Were you neutered as a child?
no i just don’t fucking understand why the naked woman matters here.
Could be fucking anything, a pile of a billion dollars. Three turtles, or a goat, it’s the same joke.
I don’t think it’s the same joke when it’s three turtles or a goat, because the joke is “I think I can get close enough…to engage in unspecified sex acts with this woman.”
You think the same chemicals that turned the frickin frogs gay is responsible for this aversion to sexual thoughts? “Could it not be a naked woman? That clutches my pearls.”
“I think I can get close enough…to engage in unspecified sex acts with this woman.”
that’s what i would assume, but then again it never states anything, so this is like walking into a fucking storage shed and seeing a colonoscopy going on. It’s just fucking weird.
Exactly, it’s the same joke regardless so why get bent out of shape over it?
i mean yeah, i guess so, but that’s not what im confused over.
I just want to know why specifically it was written with a nude woman? It never alluded to anything in particular.
Could be fucking anything
Like a naked woman.
i mean yeah, that’s one of the options. Could also be an orphan source.
It could be a research grant.
engineers love research grants, well known behaviorism of an engineer.
Because humanity has no other desires between math and tits apparently.
Can confirm.
(I’m both a mathematician and a pervert)
So, I understand why there is a naked woman in the joke, what I don’t understand is her motivation.
Don’t you know women are objects and have no motivations. /s obviously
and yelling at people who don’t understand, apparently.
I’ve committed the most heinous of crimes according to the internet, not understanding the joke.
Sorry i’m autistic lmao.
Only straight men are mathematicians, physicists and engineers. This is why the joke is framed this way.
See: responses from OP, valiantly defending his choice to “piss people off”, instead of noticing the joke is just yet another reminder that men are default.
After all, sexism is over, and STEM isn’t hostile to women/non-heteronormative people. It’s all in our head.
What a .ml tier comment lmao
Yay we got instance racism in lemmy!
Hi there friend, I am here to inform you that many woman also like the titty. Gay girls exist my friend, and the gender of the three professionals is never specified.
I’ll assume ya ain’t trying to be homophobic my buddy but I hope you keep that in mind for future refference.
Edit racism comment was another guy, sorry, very tired
that’s the vibe i’m getting, but it’s a really fucking weird premise for a hypothetical regardless.
“there are a fisher, a farmer, and a welder in a bar, on the other side is cthulhu” is basically how it’s worded
Sexism, obvs
that’s a possibility.
sin(x) ~= 0cosmologists: sin(x) ~= 10
“small but non-zero” is one of my favorite phrases 😅
I like Paul Erdős’s usage of “epsilon” to refer to children
The infinitesimal has entered the chat.
i mean, mathematically speaking, every number that isn’t zero, is further away from zero, than the number before it.
So there is a point to the statement of “approaching zero” as well “near zero” and “about zero” since 100 probably isn’t about zero.
Also CS nerds would like to fight you about floating point values.
Whoa slow down there buddy. Proposing numbers before numbers like they are a given.
as far as we can tell, mathematically, they are a given, and they never stop.
I’ll wait for you to find the end of pi.
I’m not saying the numbers stop. But there are numbers where concepts like “closer to zero” or “number before [another number]” don’t apply.
For example There is no sensible way to define a less-than for the complex numbers and thus they can’t be ordered.
i would argue that you can probably independently define an ordering mechanism. And then apply it.
You can just pretend that 100 is 0. I see no reason this shouldn’t apply to everything else.
What do you mean by independent? There is no more general and independent notion of ordering than a less-than operator. The article above oulines a mathematical proof that no such definition exists in a consistent way for the complex numbers.
What about large values of zero?
Trivial
~ ∞
