Presumptuous gesture there, personally I supported Sanders in both 2016 and 2020 primaries, but failing that I’ll take who has a chance to stop a greater threat over making some protest gesture by writing in someone who has no chance given the realities of the established system.
Another new account was made to comment in another part of this thread to try and argue against voting for an established party because that’ll never get a ranked choice vote. To that one I’ll say similar to above, making some futile gesture by voting for a non-viable candidate will have even less a chance of getting to the better system sought.
And to the other asking for evidence that the ‘genocode Joe’ mantra is likely started as an astroturfing campaign, no I don’t have some specific source, that was the point of saying it has the ‘feel of’. However, if one looks at it for a moment, who benefits by seeking to split the Democratic vote? Who has a noted history of using catchy names to denigrate ‘sleepy Joe’? The #hashtag style of things simply reeks of the kind of campaign one would hire a bunch of bot farms to spit out threads like this one in an effort to create a wedge in the more diverse party that just happens to be a threat to the existence of an oppressive ‘moral centric’ group who seek to impose their world views on the rest of society.
Presumptuous gesture there, personally I supported Sanders in both 2016 and 2020 primaries, but failing that I’ll take who has a chance to stop a greater threat over making some protest gesture by writing in someone who has no chance given the realities of the established system.
Along with fighting, downplaying, undermining, and trivializing anyone who sees things differently.
There are plenty of moderate and liberal voters finger wagging us to support their pro-corporate trash candidate. We don’t need you joining their ranks. What we need is for you to tell them they either need to make material compromises with us or lose to MAGA.
See, I won’t do that because these sort of ultimatums are counter productive to the larger goal. If liberal ideals are the end target then saying ‘give it now or let MAGA take over for all I care’ ends up putting everything that HAS been gained at risk to make a point. Letting the far right take control will inevitably move everyone and everything further away from the end goals making it that much more unlikely to make up that lost ground and make any progress in future administrations.
See, I won’t do that because these sort of ultimatums are counter productive to the larger goal.
You’re blindly accepting ultimatums handed to us daily by moderate and liberals and then calling it out when we fight back. You’re trying to hold us to a different standard than liberal and moderate voters.
putting everything that HAS been gained at risk
Again, this is a two way street. If moderates and liberals aren’t willing to make material compromises with us they are also putting “everything that has been gained at risk”.
Take a basic presumption that things are near a 50/50 split but on the optimistic premise that Biden ends up with say 53% of the vote leaving 47%✓to Trump. Now this ‘movement’ comes along and convinces maybe 10% of those people to go some other direction because ‘Biden bad’ regardless of the issues with Trump.
You now get a 43/47/10 split, which given the nature of the electoral college actually ends up with a Trump landslide claiming the electors in multiple contested state.
Unless you are willing to say that Biden is at least as bad as or worse than Trump (in which case you may as well vote for Trump), or are convinced that you can get a near unanimous vote to go outside the nominated candidate for the Democrat party, then all your efforts does is support a Trump victory. Your personal morals being placated won’t do a thing to save Palestine, preserve rights for vulnerable populations, or anything else of consequence.
What this ends up as is essentially the ‘Bernie broes’ from 2016 who refused to support Clinton and helped get Trump a first term.
No, I’m simply reiterating the realities of today. The electoral college in all but 2 states as I last recalled awards all the state’s electors to whomever wins the simple majority in a state. If things where exactly 50/50 today and these protesting groups siphoned away votes specifically from Biden then you now hand Trump the state. It works the other way too.
Now if somehow these people siphoned an equal amount from both parties it becomes a wash and irrelevant, but since it’s a specifically anti-Biden effort that’s not likely the case.
Yes, but you’re only telling this to progressives and leftists despite having near zero input on policy while giving moderates and liberals a free pass while they enjoy full control of all policy decisions.
I would tell the same to anyone who cares to not see a second Trump term regardless of ideology. I’m no more fond of the modern D party than anyone, but it beats the alternative.
Presumptuous gesture there, personally I supported Sanders in both 2016 and 2020 primaries, but failing that I’ll take who has a chance to stop a greater threat over making some protest gesture by writing in someone who has no chance given the realities of the established system.
Another new account was made to comment in another part of this thread to try and argue against voting for an established party because that’ll never get a ranked choice vote. To that one I’ll say similar to above, making some futile gesture by voting for a non-viable candidate will have even less a chance of getting to the better system sought.
And to the other asking for evidence that the ‘genocode Joe’ mantra is likely started as an astroturfing campaign, no I don’t have some specific source, that was the point of saying it has the ‘feel of’. However, if one looks at it for a moment, who benefits by seeking to split the Democratic vote? Who has a noted history of using catchy names to denigrate ‘sleepy Joe’? The #hashtag style of things simply reeks of the kind of campaign one would hire a bunch of bot farms to spit out threads like this one in an effort to create a wedge in the more diverse party that just happens to be a threat to the existence of an oppressive ‘moral centric’ group who seek to impose their world views on the rest of society.
Along with fighting, downplaying, undermining, and trivializing anyone who sees things differently.
There are plenty of moderate and liberal voters finger wagging us to support their pro-corporate trash candidate. We don’t need you joining their ranks. What we need is for you to tell them they either need to make material compromises with us or lose to MAGA.
See, I won’t do that because these sort of ultimatums are counter productive to the larger goal. If liberal ideals are the end target then saying ‘give it now or let MAGA take over for all I care’ ends up putting everything that HAS been gained at risk to make a point. Letting the far right take control will inevitably move everyone and everything further away from the end goals making it that much more unlikely to make up that lost ground and make any progress in future administrations.
You’re blindly accepting ultimatums handed to us daily by moderate and liberals and then calling it out when we fight back. You’re trying to hold us to a different standard than liberal and moderate voters.
Again, this is a two way street. If moderates and liberals aren’t willing to make material compromises with us they are also putting “everything that has been gained at risk”.
What I accept is math, nothing more or less.
Take a basic presumption that things are near a 50/50 split but on the optimistic premise that Biden ends up with say 53% of the vote leaving 47%✓to Trump. Now this ‘movement’ comes along and convinces maybe 10% of those people to go some other direction because ‘Biden bad’ regardless of the issues with Trump.
You now get a 43/47/10 split, which given the nature of the electoral college actually ends up with a Trump landslide claiming the electors in multiple contested state.
Unless you are willing to say that Biden is at least as bad as or worse than Trump (in which case you may as well vote for Trump), or are convinced that you can get a near unanimous vote to go outside the nominated candidate for the Democrat party, then all your efforts does is support a Trump victory. Your personal morals being placated won’t do a thing to save Palestine, preserve rights for vulnerable populations, or anything else of consequence.
What this ends up as is essentially the ‘Bernie broes’ from 2016 who refused to support Clinton and helped get Trump a first term.
You just sailed over everything I called you out on: You are holding progressives and leftists to a different standard than moderates and liberals.
No, I’m simply reiterating the realities of today. The electoral college in all but 2 states as I last recalled awards all the state’s electors to whomever wins the simple majority in a state. If things where exactly 50/50 today and these protesting groups siphoned away votes specifically from Biden then you now hand Trump the state. It works the other way too.
Now if somehow these people siphoned an equal amount from both parties it becomes a wash and irrelevant, but since it’s a specifically anti-Biden effort that’s not likely the case.
Yes, but you’re only telling this to progressives and leftists despite having near zero input on policy while giving moderates and liberals a free pass while they enjoy full control of all policy decisions.
I would tell the same to anyone who cares to not see a second Trump term regardless of ideology. I’m no more fond of the modern D party than anyone, but it beats the alternative.