how many right wing voters on the fence did she win with her own strategy? go ahead and look that up :)

agree, take care.

It boils down to “does moving to the central position gain more voters in the end or not?”

I certainly don’t think it has to boil down to that. Your question is valid but there are plenty of other questions you could derive. One I like might be: “Does ignoring the voice of your voter base increase apathy or not?” or “How does apathy caused by unquestioning support for genocide interact with other alienations caused by democrats courting conservatives?” or really poignantly “Might not the ‘left’ adopting conservative framing and policies simply reaffirm conservative leaning swing voters in their decision to vote Republican?”

i like this :)

please take a deep breath homie. none of the things you are saying about me are true and it’s deeply misgiving how you are forcing some kind of made up characterization on me with no evidence. i’m gonna disengage now out of genuine concern i hope you can find some rest. it’s fucked out there ❤️

hehe i was just repeating a pithy little saying not start a debate :) fully agree with you for the record

Liberalism eventually collapses into fascism

my opinion is this as well. again fully agree with you i wasn’t trying to engage at all. take care :)

when did i ever say something about non-voting? i did not. i never did. i will never. again look through my 2000+ commments, you will find dozens if not hundreds arguing against abstention and voter apathy.

you are literally making shit up to be angry with me, just like the other account. it’s super weird and i hope your recognize how wack that is lol.

like im not even upset? just concerned? you made up an entire character that doesn’t represent my opinion or words at all and are now engaging in an internet rant against your own imagination. take a deep breath homie. you deserve rest and internal peace—and goodness knows you probably won’t find that in politics so i hope you can find pause for a moment ❤️

you’re absolutely correct in what ur saying but missing the point. the post isn’t trying to argue that the election could have been won by promising withholding weapons, it’s pointing out that it literally couldn’t hurt, and still didn’t happen.

the security that could have come from simply saying the words “no more weapons if we win” was essentially free for the taking, and yet biden-harris eschewed that opportunity in favor of courting conservatives—in a huge middle finger to pro-Palestinians. the post is about listening, or rather the lackthereof, to one’s voterbase.

again i appreciate your insight into the election dynamics but it’s just not the point here so i hope this clarifies. ❤️

i understand you are emotionally invested in this. but me being critical of the fact that every time she was asked why your tax dollars were going to a nation performing a HOLOCAUST she opened by saying “Israel has a right to defend itself” does not make me an accelerationist. it makes me a decent fucking person.

look through all 2000+ of my comments and NOWHERE will you find me advocating accelerationism or a democratic loss. you are forcing an entirely made up narrative and position onto me that i do not accept. get it through your head that decent people might want to call it out when murder is supported without question. and lastly be fucking nice.

real as hell

i will lash out against everyone unapologetically funding genocide, thank you very much ❤️

Late but here’s my model of the situation. Sort of a WIP and very new but a /gen effortpost, so I welcome thoughts:

It’s individualism versus collectivism. The collectivist understands intimately the function of working together for the protection and future of the group. There is no doubt in her mind about the practical nature of her actions because she can see them play out in her community. The individualist, by contrast, operates solo; everything for him is about your vote, your candidate. This leads to a divide between the individualist and the material outcomes of his actions. This gap—this absence of practicality, we might call it—leaves a vacuum where symbolism can enter. This becomes a problem not when symbolism is simply encountered by the individualist, but when the symbol becomes the act, when the vote becomes a kind of personal expression, and any thought for collective consequences falls by the wayside.

“Ordinarily,” if we imagine such a thing exists, these two identities intermix and act in a complex and altogether non-problematic way; I don’t wish to imply that individualism is simply “bad” while collective action is “good.” For example, concepts of individualism are fundamental to advancing human rights to consent and bodily autonomy.

However, the setting and background of your question is the USA, a country with deep, deep historical ties to white supremacist, capitalist, colonialist, even fascist values, all of which hold the individual as intrinsic over the collective. The result is that hyperindividualism is catastrophically rooted in the heart of U.S. society—even in progressive and leftist spaces!

So, when you see a pro-Palestinian proclaim abstention or that they voted third party, you are witnessing the complex outcome of genuine compassion intermingled with the values instilled by white supremacy and individualism. And so you hear the phrase, “I just can’t in good conscience vote for XYZ.” To degrees varying between people, the vote loses its material value and becomes nothing more than a symbolic moral statement.

This doesn’t mean the leftist non-voter is a white supremacist, of course! Rather, it’s that they have been deeply affected by the presence of those values in their cultural context and have not yet had the opportunity or experience with group frameworks to question their assumptions and reassert the significant importance of collectivism.

So, in conclusion, the unnuanced TLDR is “because America is a racist capitalist hellhole.” The good news I conclude from this, though, is that collectivism can be learned and promoted. Cultural values are definitely not static, and perhaps with education, support, and time, mindsets among leftists can be shifted to better support the whole of the community.

OP asked for a steelman but good try

scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

kamala harris hacks kamala harris

sorry my mouth isn’t big enough for all the words you are stuffing in there :)

well put. election has been emotionally traumatic for many, but that’s never going to make me hold biden-harris blameless for their relentless tacking right in the past four-eight years. people in the comments section want me to throw up my hands and say “ah well she did her best” and thats just… remarkably unfair.

hold your leaders accountable, folks. fuck trump. but also fuck adopting trump’s own conservative values in failed attempts to win over his constituents. dems WILL NOT do better unless you MAKE them.

i think you lost the plot of the thread. post was simply about the party ignoring the communicated values of the electorate. you’re getting off on some other thing.

lots of emotions, so i understand your need to react with vigorous opposition but you’re simply talking to a made up idea of me rather than what im actually saying and communicating. have a good one :)

we love a good cherry pick :) be sure to check out the pro-genocide pollsters for the real data

weird and confusing comment? maybe missing the point which is that harris got “some letters and phonecalls” (a lot of them!) and fucking ignored them for the entire campaign. biden-harris are the imbeciles here. hope this clarifies :)