There was a post on r/leftwingmaleadvocates which asked, “Are incels bad?” One of the comments said the following:
“Yea problem is dating is so rigged with the apps and no cultural celebration/rolls for men to be fulfilled and desirable, that about 80% of guys probably fall into the category of incel these days. There are actually whole countries like Japan or China where MOST men are permanently single and have no hope of ever getting a partner or relationship. Feminism has been IMMENSELY vindictive and bigoted culturally, but there are also big socioeconomic factors at play here. There are literally tens of millions of guys out there that could be considered incel, and even if your not an incel dating is still extremely difficult which is just as much a problem. I think the incel label is almost like the label ‘thug’. It takes a social issue and crushes you by making it a -you- thing. Oh you say a lot of women/society don’t even treat you as human, hmmm sounds like there must be something wrong with YOU, work harder and pull yourself up by the bootstraps!”
I replied to the comment by saying that 80% of men are not incels. In public, I have seen average looking men with girlfriends. In my experience, what this Redditor said is not true. I was downvoted for saying that. I disagree with this comment because it seems to be “black-pilled.”
There was also a post on r/mensrights which was about a guy sharing his personal experience. He said he was able to get laid while being broke. He said women don’t care about money much. He was also downvoted.
Some MRAs (who probably have trouble dating) seem to have black-pilled beliefs. The black-pill says if a man isn’t in the top 20% he is doomed. He won’t be able to get casual sex or a girlfriend. Some take it to a more extreme level and say a man has to be 6 ft tall, have a 6 figure income, 6 pack abs, and a 6 inch penis.
The black-pill is a derivative of the red-pill, but it has less nuance. Rollo Tomassi is supposed to be the inventor of the red-pill. In one of his videos he said, women are attracted to 20% of men. The 20% is subjective for each woman. He never said 20% of men sleep with 80% of women. Someone misunderstood what he said and it spread throughout the internet.
By saying 20%, it means women are pickier than men. Maybe some women think less than 20% are attractive, and some think more than 20%. It’s not an exact 20%. A man can be in the 20% (attractive) for one woman and be in the unattractive category for another.
Some people say 80% of women swipe right on 20% of men on Tinder. I don’t know how true that is. I haven’t read the data on it. Black-pillers claim this is true.
In my opinion, average men are not doomed. I think these black pilled beliefs are harmful to the men who hold them.
PSA: Defense of blackpill ideology is extremely unwelcome here.
It is not “acknowledging harsh reality”, “the unfiltered truth”, or “how the world works.” No. It’s doomer thinking, and an oversimplification and distortion of reality. Yes, physical attractiveness is important, but it’s not the be-all and end-all. There are other factors that play a role. Humans are complex beings, and you’re doing us no service by erasing that complexity and boiling everything down to one factor. One that is mostly out of one’s control. As if it’s that simple.
It leads to hopelessness, depression, and worse. We here aim to help men overcome that, and work on a better future. If you’re at cross-purposes with that, then you have no place here.
In my opinion the main problem of all pilled schools of thoughts: is a very formulaic view of humans. It’s a very naive view of the world that views it more like a video game, where a certain set of actions will lead to a certain result. While in reality humans are just highly irrational and there are just some vague guidelines in life, where sometimes you can do the opposite and be just as fine.
There are actually whole countries like Japan or China where MOST men are permanently single
This is just blatantly untrue. Yes, there may be difficulties, but most men end up dating (and eventually, getting married) anyway. Also, feminism has had barely any influence on China. There are other forces at play here, such as traditional expectations.
I think these black pilled beliefs are harmful to the men who hold them.
Absolutely, and we don’t endorse them here.
I just checked the LWMA thread, and the blatantly false claim that 80% of Japanese and Chinese men are incels is the top upvoted comment…! Oh, how far has LWMA fallen.
Welp, tl;dr you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, regardless of whether those other commenters are right or wrong, and are arguing emotionally instead, which is how I know you were in the wrong.
In public, I have seen average looking men with girlfriends. In my experience, what this Redditor said is not true.
I saw a black cat yesterday, so clearly all cats must be black otherwise i might have to update my worldview
He said he was able to get laid while being broke.
Money is the most convenient attraction trigger, not the only one. He may also have gotten laid by someone desperate, or was considered top % by the woman in some other way.
None of that even challenges what the people you were arguing with were saying. You can’t enter a discussion about statistics and broad trends with “oh I saw an exception once, so everything you said is wrong”
The black-pill is a derivative of the red-pill, but it has less nuance. Rollo Tomassi is supposed to be the inventor of the red-pill
Stop making statements about things you know nothing about.
Rollo didn’t invent red pill, and it’s only a convenient label for a feeling that men’s movements have been identifying since the 60’s and 70’s
Some people say 80% of women swipe right on 20% of men on Tinder. I don’t know how true that is. I haven’t read the data on it. Black-pillers claim this is true.
So, you haven’t looked at any data, data I’m certain those “blackpillers” would have happily provided (since it’s come from two different dating app sources, first from match.com and the later from tinder) yet you’ve already decided they’re wrong about something? Dude, please.
If your first reaction after hearing something you don’t like or don’t believe (not having bothered to look at the public ally available data you can pull up on the magic rectangle in your pocket, neither when you were arguing then nor at any time during your whining now) you have very different and much bigger personal problems then being wrong on the internet.
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Look, you can ignore it and blame individual men as if it’s their own fault all you want, but reality doesn’t care what you think or believe
Marriage rates are at historic lows and still trending downward
Birth rates are in the same state
All of that is completely ignoring men’s needs and just looking at what’s happening to the population.
And that isn’t for a specific country… it’s all of them, China and Japan are just some of the best examples
Regardless of how you want to twist and bend and do mental gymnastics to blame individual men for just not “doing enough”, it doesn’t matter.
The sad truth is things are heading toward disaster, dating especially, and things won’t change until women as a social class change, because right now men are by and large choosing to just opt out and live alone rather than put up with the nonsense, and you can’t fix that by yelling at the men (which just adds to the pile of nonsense he’d rather just not deal with at all)
It was never the “incels” people needed to worry about, it’s just a phase before not giving a shit at all anymore. The last wail of the man who would consider being a simp, before seeing it all for the manipulation to keep him working harder that it all was.
But go ahead and “disagree” to your hearts content, for all the good it does you or anybody else
Removed as it contains personal attacks.
It’s kinda hard, because if all you have experienced are the shallow women who only care about looks, money, and status, being told you are wrong will just make you feel invalidated. I don’t think it’s much different from women who assume that all men are misogynistic rapists due to having been traumatized by them. It is a way to tie your experiences and identity into the ideologies you support.
