Because, it does not destroy all waste, despite a cartoon claiming as such and gullible people falling for it? Even “short-term” waste needs to be stored somewhere for about 500 years. Sure, it ain’t like the others in terms of length of time but anyone who thinks that is a cheap fact or trivial is an idealogue. Since they can exist at both extremes.
So the issue of the water table or general environmental contamination is not addressed the way OP claims. There are also higher costs and higher grade fuel is required. Not to say that there are not some advantages but the cartoon is just plain incorrect and taking a toodler’s view on some serious concerns. The Wikipedia article has a list of disavantages for anyone to look into.
I blame Nixon for why nuclear power in the US sucks. He axed research on any reactor types that didn’t produce plutonium for weapons, including thorium reactors. Hope he’s rotting in hell.
According to the future-documentary Futurama, his head is in a jar somewhere, waiting to assume the presidency once again with the headless body of Spiro Agnew.
Yeah, I thought about it after and realized it was probably a different tech, but the point is reliable breeder reactors are possible, and certain medical tech is reliant on their existence.
So why cling to an outdated technology when there are viable solutions at hand, which are nowhere as complicated and dangerous as nuclear fission? It’s the monetary interest of a dying nuclear industry and its lobbyists.
It’s not really needed. Waste is a boogeyman, but not really a problem. It takes an incredibly small volume to store the waste, and it can be reduced with reprocessing to run in the exact same reactors.
At some point in the future when there actually is a huge amount of waste causing issues, then it might make sense to build a reactor to use it.
Over 60,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel are stored across Europe (excluding Russia and Slovakia), most of
which in France (Table 1). Within the EU, France accounts for 25 percent of the current spent nuclear fuel,
followed by Germany (15 percent) and the United Kingdom (14 percent). Spent nuclear fuel is considered
high-level waste. Though present in comparably small volumes, it makes up the vast bulk of radioactivity.
A quick question . Other than a suprisingly lot of complexity involved in diggin the hole of sufficient size and depth why wouldnt it work ( or is that the reason )?
It would work. Much like every other sweeping of something under the rug, hiding it elsewhere for it to be a problem later always works for the person throwing it away.
After all, why would we ever wish to extract the remaining U238 from the spent fuel? We utilised a full 4%, let’s call that square and throw the rest down a hole. Perish the thought we’ll ever need to dig near this massive radioactive hole. Or that an undiscovered cycle of nature causes it to come back to bite us. Just throw it down there with the rest of the resources we never want to safely explore, and who cares if there’s something valuable within it’s sphere of radioactivity.
Apologies for the sarcasm. I consider the idea both wasteful and foolish.
I’m a fan of both Thorium and Molten-Salt Reactors.
Weight is a way to make the problem sound worse than it is, because nuclear waste is so incredibly dense. It’s not enough to be a big deal yet. Dumping it deep into the ocean is an option, but it’s only going to happen to waste that doesn’t have potential uses first.
Yes and no. Most current fuels are Uranium or Plutonium. Both between 19 and 20 g/cm3. For reference, liquid water is approximately 1 g/cm3. Unspent fuel is a similar weight to gold.
“Spent” U238 is usually around 96% U238. If we consider the remainder a rounding error and assume all 60 tonnes is 60 million kg of U238. That will give us a very rough estimate of 3,000 m3.
Also worthy of noting are other wastes that comes from mining and refining.
There is much waste already. The “spent” waste is too radioactive to safely re-refine until later.
Have a look at the size of the Finnish waste repository.
“They’ll hold a total of 5,500 tonnes of waste,” says Joutsen. “So Onkalo will take all the high-level nuclear waste produced by Finland’s five nuclear power plants in their entire life cycles.”
I don’t think even one of those fast fission reactors is still in operation. Wonder why that is.
Because, it does not destroy all waste, despite a cartoon claiming as such and gullible people falling for it? Even “short-term” waste needs to be stored somewhere for about 500 years. Sure, it ain’t like the others in terms of length of time but anyone who thinks that is a cheap fact or trivial is an idealogue. Since they can exist at both extremes.
So the issue of the water table or general environmental contamination is not addressed the way OP claims. There are also higher costs and higher grade fuel is required. Not to say that there are not some advantages but the cartoon is just plain incorrect and taking a toodler’s view on some serious concerns. The Wikipedia article has a list of disavantages for anyone to look into.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast-neutron_reactor
They’re politically unpopular, more expensive than fossil fuels, and most of them are prototypes.
India and China each have one. Russia has 3.
I blame Nixon for why nuclear power in the US sucks. He axed research on any reactor types that didn’t produce plutonium for weapons, including thorium reactors. Hope he’s rotting in hell.
According to the future-documentary Futurama, his head is in a jar somewhere, waiting to assume the presidency once again with the headless body of Spiro Agnew.
Nah, they also depict Henry Kissinger that way, but we all know he’s dragging what’s left of his body across a minefield in hell.
According to Wikipedia there are a few, with more planned. But not nearly enough. IMO, we should switch over to Fast Reactors as standard.
Canada has CANDU breeder reactors, still in use. They also produce the majority of medical isotopes.
CANDU reactors are pressurized heavy-water reactors not Fast-neutron reactors.
Yeah, I thought about it after and realized it was probably a different tech, but the point is reliable breeder reactors are possible, and certain medical tech is reliant on their existence.
Since there are economic, ecological, conceptual and engineering problems, only five Fast-neutron reactors are operational at the moment. Three in Russia, one in India and one in China. Not surprisingly these are countries that also have an interest in producing weapons grade Plutonium, which FNRs are capable of.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2968/066003007
https://spectrum.ieee.org/china-breeder-reactor
https://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs15glaser.pdf
https://energypost.eu/slow-death-fast-reactors/
https://sussex.figshare.com/articles/report/
And while nuclear energy production peaked 1996 at 17% and was nowhere near overtaking fossil energy production in it’s 70(!) year long existence, Renewables will overtake fossil fuel power production in 2025, with only minute risks for the biosphere.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewable-power-set-to-surpass-coal-globally-by-2025/
https://www.renewable-ei.org/pdfdownload/activities/REI_NuclearReport_201902_EN.pdf
So why cling to an outdated technology when there are viable solutions at hand, which are nowhere as complicated and dangerous as nuclear fission? It’s the monetary interest of a dying nuclear industry and its lobbyists.
It’s not really needed. Waste is a boogeyman, but not really a problem. It takes an incredibly small volume to store the waste, and it can be reduced with reprocessing to run in the exact same reactors.
At some point in the future when there actually is a huge amount of waste causing issues, then it might make sense to build a reactor to use it.
~ 2019 https://worldnuclearwastereport.org/
Last “brilliant” plan I heard was dumping it in a hole deep enough we’d never need, nor be able to recover it.
A quick question . Other than a suprisingly lot of complexity involved in diggin the hole of sufficient size and depth why wouldnt it work ( or is that the reason )?
It would work. Much like every other sweeping of something under the rug, hiding it elsewhere for it to be a problem later always works for the person throwing it away.
After all, why would we ever wish to extract the remaining U238 from the spent fuel? We utilised a full 4%, let’s call that square and throw the rest down a hole. Perish the thought we’ll ever need to dig near this massive radioactive hole. Or that an undiscovered cycle of nature causes it to come back to bite us. Just throw it down there with the rest of the resources we never want to safely explore, and who cares if there’s something valuable within it’s sphere of radioactivity.
Apologies for the sarcasm. I consider the idea both wasteful and foolish.
I’m a fan of both Thorium and Molten-Salt Reactors.
So a hole with an elevator then?
If you like hauling hundreds of tons of waste up and down an elevator? Maybe. Who does maintenance every so often at the bottom of the shaft?
Weight is a way to make the problem sound worse than it is, because nuclear waste is so incredibly dense. It’s not enough to be a big deal yet. Dumping it deep into the ocean is an option, but it’s only going to happen to waste that doesn’t have potential uses first.
Yes and no. Most current fuels are Uranium or Plutonium. Both between 19 and 20 g/cm3. For reference, liquid water is approximately 1 g/cm3. Unspent fuel is a similar weight to gold.
“Spent” U238 is usually around 96% U238. If we consider the remainder a rounding error and assume all 60 tonnes is 60 million kg of U238. That will give us a very rough estimate of 3,000 m3.
Also worthy of noting are other wastes that comes from mining and refining.
There is much waste already. The “spent” waste is too radioactive to safely re-refine until later.
Have a look at the size of the Finnish waste repository.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230613-onkalo-has-finland-found-the-answer-to-spent-nuclear-fuel-waste-by-burying-it
The Finnish repository is designed with a life of 100,000 years. Homo sapiens (i.e us) have existed for about 300,000 years.
Article about the problems warnings that will comprehensible in 10,000 years https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200731-how-to-build-a-nuclear-warning-for-10000-years-time