At least they’re considering odds. That’s a good start. Like the flat earthers in Behind the Curve who set out to prove flat earth theory with science, there’s a chance of learning.
Religious apologists who argue like skeptics are sometimes only missing knowledge or working through some childhood programming.
Wow. Was it flat earth specifically? Or what was your worldview that it took you a while to see through?
I mean, when I was younger and angrier and less logical, I was in the conspiracy-o-sphere in the early 2000s—bush-centric/neocon centric. It’s interesting, those things used to align with leftist beliefs. Like…the 9/11 stuff wasn’t “the Illuminati” or whatever. It was, “Cheney and Rumsfeld were in PNAC, where they specifically talked about an ‘antagonizing incident’ akin to Pearl Harbor in order to get public support for war in Iraq and Afghanistan.” Which…is all actually true. And that tied into the whole “how did the buildings fall directly into their own lot like a planned demolition; where is the rest of the plane/crash zone in the lawn at the pentagon; why after all the planes were grounded, were the Bush family flying out members of bin Landen’s family; why did building seven collapse; where are all the plane parts in PA; how did they hit the one empty unit of the pentagon under construction, etc.”
Which…I mean, I still don’t think we know all we should know. But I also now have a logical portion of my adult brain that says, “okay, well while all those may be interesting questions, where are the whistleblowers that would undoubtedly have come out by now, where is the evidence of a planned demolition, etc.”
I mean, maybe it was just because I found all this stuff in a formative time of my life, but I still do think about that stuff sometimes, and there is still a part of me that wonders more about it than the standard accepted story…but those questions do wrestle with my more logical thinking. And it’s very, very unpopular to say anything about the 9/11 conspiracy stuff because it was hijacked (poor choice of words) by whack jobs that taint everything they touch.
But there was also a point in my life where all of that stuff ended up turning me off because of how crazy it got. Maybe I was just somewhat sensible from a younger age, but it’s like I responded to those kinds of questions, but then when they all pushed the conspiracy shit further, I was like, “…um…yeah, I’m out.”
I was evangelical Christian. As straight and pious as they come in the way the most aren’t. I was steeped in it and had a heavy natural skepticism but that was beat out of me and I tried so fucking hard to believe. I realized when I was 31 or so that I never actually did believe and that I was just trying to believe. But I leveraged all the usual mental gymnastics that made my 15 year old brain feel clever. So when I got away from it (I got burned real bad by a pastor… long story… that made me hesitant and scared to go to another church) I got the space I needed to find the perspective and lean into my skepticism.
Damn. Well, here’s to you living a better life post-Evangelicalism. I’m sorry something horrible had to happen to finally push you away for good, but I hope you’ve been able to recover from whatever it was and find happiness.
At least they’re considering odds. That’s a good start. Like the flat earthers in Behind the Curve who set out to prove flat earth theory with science, there’s a chance of learning.
Religious apologists who argue like skeptics are sometimes only missing knowledge or working through some childhood programming.
But, very much like the flat earthers in that doc, they can walk right up to the truth…and then ignore it.
Which I did for 20 or so years. It eventually got through to me though, thankfully.
Wow. Was it flat earth specifically? Or what was your worldview that it took you a while to see through?
I mean, when I was younger and angrier and less logical, I was in the conspiracy-o-sphere in the early 2000s—bush-centric/neocon centric. It’s interesting, those things used to align with leftist beliefs. Like…the 9/11 stuff wasn’t “the Illuminati” or whatever. It was, “Cheney and Rumsfeld were in PNAC, where they specifically talked about an ‘antagonizing incident’ akin to Pearl Harbor in order to get public support for war in Iraq and Afghanistan.” Which…is all actually true. And that tied into the whole “how did the buildings fall directly into their own lot like a planned demolition; where is the rest of the plane/crash zone in the lawn at the pentagon; why after all the planes were grounded, were the Bush family flying out members of bin Landen’s family; why did building seven collapse; where are all the plane parts in PA; how did they hit the one empty unit of the pentagon under construction, etc.”
Which…I mean, I still don’t think we know all we should know. But I also now have a logical portion of my adult brain that says, “okay, well while all those may be interesting questions, where are the whistleblowers that would undoubtedly have come out by now, where is the evidence of a planned demolition, etc.”
I mean, maybe it was just because I found all this stuff in a formative time of my life, but I still do think about that stuff sometimes, and there is still a part of me that wonders more about it than the standard accepted story…but those questions do wrestle with my more logical thinking. And it’s very, very unpopular to say anything about the 9/11 conspiracy stuff because it was hijacked (poor choice of words) by whack jobs that taint everything they touch.
But there was also a point in my life where all of that stuff ended up turning me off because of how crazy it got. Maybe I was just somewhat sensible from a younger age, but it’s like I responded to those kinds of questions, but then when they all pushed the conspiracy shit further, I was like, “…um…yeah, I’m out.”
I was evangelical Christian. As straight and pious as they come in the way the most aren’t. I was steeped in it and had a heavy natural skepticism but that was beat out of me and I tried so fucking hard to believe. I realized when I was 31 or so that I never actually did believe and that I was just trying to believe. But I leveraged all the usual mental gymnastics that made my 15 year old brain feel clever. So when I got away from it (I got burned real bad by a pastor… long story… that made me hesitant and scared to go to another church) I got the space I needed to find the perspective and lean into my skepticism.
That’s the spark notes version of how I got out.
Damn. Well, here’s to you living a better life post-Evangelicalism. I’m sorry something horrible had to happen to finally push you away for good, but I hope you’ve been able to recover from whatever it was and find happiness.
Thanks!
I’m happier and living the best life I ever have. 💖💖