• RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I’ve read most of his books and missed this, or it never stuck with me.

      Thanks for posting it. Dude was smart.

      I’d like the source, please.

      3rd edit:

      Asimov, The Sun Shines Bright, Ch. 17 Nice Guys Finish First!, pp 124.

      It’s actually a footnote and not part of the text, so here’s some context:

      Within these units co-operation has been brought about, despite the natural tendency to destructive competition, by the application of governmental authority, internal police and, most of all, the strictures of custom, social pressure and religion. The general advance in the size of the units within which co-operation is maintained has, at the present day, produced governmental control over a population of 950 million people in China; 22 million square kilometres of area in the Soviet Union; and one third of the real wealth of the world in the United States. The advance has not been smooth and steady. The stresses of internal decay and external pressure have led to the fall of empires and the periodic destruction of central authority and its replacement by smaller units. Such periods of regression usually result in a ‘dark age’. (4)

      (4) There are people who, disturbed by ‘big government’ today and its tendency to curb the advantages they might gain if their competitiveness were allowed free flow, demand ‘less government’. Alas, there is no such thing as less government, merely changes in government. If the libertarians had their way, the distant bureaucracy would vanish and the local bully would be in charge. Personally, I prefer the distant bureaucracy, which may not find me, over the local bully, who certainly will. And all historical precedent shows a change to localism to be for the worse.

      Today, the world undergoes centrifugal decomposition politically, as the old European empires break up and as cultural minorities demand nations all their own; but economic units continue to grow larger and the only economic unit that makes sense today is the whole planet. In one way, it’s the political units that count, for it is they who wage war. Though peace is maintained within the units (if we ignore endemic crime and violence, and occasional terrorism, rebellion and civil war) there is war between them. City-states warred against each other interminably in ancient Greece and in Renaissance Italy; feudal estates did so in medieval Europe and early modern Japan; nations did so in early medieval China and modern Europe, and in all cases until modern times there were conflicts with barbarians on the fringes. The intensity and destructiveness of the conflicts shows a general rise with advancing technology, so that despite the growing size of the units within which co- operation can be counted on, competitiveness may still win out. Destruction still threatens to outpace the capacity for recovery. We now live at a time when the outcome clearly hangs in the balance. One more all- out general war and civilization will probably be destroyed - possibly for good. Indeed, even if the realization of this keeps the war from happening, the existence of potential conflict keeps the minds and energy of all the competing nations on each other as the enemy and not on those true enemies which threaten us all - overpopulation, resource depletion and technology inadequacy. Nasty guys will finish last.

      Hes not wrong, just didn’t have the zeitgeist to add climate change to the list.

      • GraniteM@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        “Nice Guys Finish First,” collected in the book “The Sun Shines Bright,” but originally published in the April 1980 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.

      • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Asimov published four books in 1980: Casebook of the Black Widowers, How Did We Find Out About Oil?, In Joy Still Felt: The Autobiography of Isaac Asimov, 1954–1978 and How Did We Find Out About Coal?

        Of those, Casebook of the Black Widowers was a collection of mystery short stories and the “How Did We Find Out About” books were childrens’ non-fiction, which leaves only In Joy Still Felt as a potential candidate for this quote. I downloaded an EPUB version of this book and did a search for “libertarians” and found nothing.

        Either the OP got the year wrong, or they just pulled this quote out of their ass.

        • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Hm. Did a search for a couple quotes from the text. Absolutely no returns on 4 search engines. One would think Asimov’s work would be pretty easy to find, especially a quote so timely. I’m now skeptical.

          E: found it, see previous edit.

          • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Yeah, it looks like it’s from the article “Nice Guys Finish First!” That article was apparently published in a magazine in 1980, so technically the OP is right, although it wasn’t collected into a book until the following year.

          • GraniteM@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            “The Sun Shines Bright” is the book where it was collected, but it was originally published in the April 1980 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.

    • htrayl@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      This is fucking great, and a point I’ve tried to argue with some family several times. Power exists, it is just a matter of where.

      • GraniteM@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        “The Sun Shines Bright” is the book where it was collected, but it was originally published in the April 1980 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.

        • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          I just did a search on both of those books and “libertarians” doesn’t show up. It wouldn’t make sense for it to be in a Foundation book anyway, since those are science fiction books set in the distant future and don’t mention contemporary political movements directly.

            • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              The government of a space empire so far in the future that humans don’t even know what planet they originally came from anymore.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Correct, governmental systems don’t change that much.

                Similarly the reader does know since robots - empire and foundation are all one contiguous series.

                • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  The book was already identified in this thread, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Foundation. It’s a compilation of a bunch of non-fiction magazine articles. Why are you still beating this horse?

                  • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    Hence the modifier “probably” being included, it doesn’t change your outlandish stance on government in the series.

    • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      11 months ago

      Which may not find me

      Is this still true? There have been significant advances in mass surveillance.