Genuinely don’t know how I feel about the “trans women in sports”. On one hand, it is a valid concern for a recently transitioned player to compete in some events, but on the other, I can totally see younger girls see more women at i.e. the skatepark and it encourages them to give it a try too
Recreational sports should have no boundaries. When you get into professional sports, the topic becomes a lot more dicey.
Especially when there’s money on the line.
I just don’t get professional sports.
IMHO sports should only be for fun.
If you dont have professional sports, you end up with sports being dominated by rich kids, who can afford to not work and fully focus on the sports, while other athletes have to work full time still.
Sports are an entertainment for many people, and why should actors, musicians, comedians and other entertainers make a living, but athletes shouldn’t, even though they have to put in the same effort and time?
Sports at the top level already are dominated by rich kids. Wealth is actually more likely to lead to athletic advantages than being a trans woman.
Hmm, this link might be dead. Search for “Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport - Transgender Women Athletes and Elite Sport” and it should pop up.
More:
https://news.osu.edu/want-to-play-college-sports-a-wealthy-family-helps/
The Income Gap Is Becoming a Physical-Activity Divide https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/health/sports-physical-education-children.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
He’s saying that athletes shouldn’t exit at all, I think. Which might be an even worse take thb.
I wanted to type out why sport players shouldn’t make nearly as much money as they do and that we should, instead, funnel that money to teachers and the arts and the like, but then realized half way though typing out the argument that I don’t care enough to do so.
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Pills? There is HRT medicine which comes in pills?
Edit: There is, thanks for the answers everyone! I knew about syringes, gel, patches and tablets, but pills were new to me.Yes, I don’t know about masc HRT specifically, but estrogen comes in many different forms - needles,gel and pills
T is injection / patch / gel only, no oral.
I’m not trans myself and don’t know anyone that is but from my background in powerlifting my guess is this is because basically any oral testosterone is brutal for the liver to break down and process
You can also get testosterone tablet implants.
Don’t forget about Estradot patches. It’s bioidentical like injections without the fuss. I don’t know about the US but I pay $6.80/month for mine.
Ask any post menopausal woman. (estrogen pills)
Or teenage girl with acne. (anti androgen pills(sometimes))
Trans women take both.
Some T blockers, like spironolactone, can also come in pills, I believe.
That’s how I used to take mine
Why wouldn’t there be?
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How about just using the rules the Olympics have been using for fifty years for competitive sports that they came up with after doing a proper study into the issue, which is if your fully transitioned for more than two years you can compete.
For sports where there isn’t a pro industry and people arn’t getting paid to compete, like in schools, just let people do whatever they present as. The point is to have fun, not ban people for maybe having a quarter of a percent advantage. If it was then games like basketball would need to have height and weight classes. The whole reason we allow, much less spend money funding, sports in schools, parks, and community centers is for exercise and fun, not just to cater to the adults betting money on the results.
what does “fully transitioned” mean? ppl transition in different ways and hrt keeps changing the body for 7-8 years before stabelizing.
just make categories based on factors that are relevant to the sport, like height, limb lenghts, and muscle mass, instead of gender. grouping by gender is both inherently sexist/genderist and doesnt actually fix inequalities, because the bodies of ppl of any given gender varie widely and there are big interesctions between genders.
after being on hrt for 1-2 years, all levels match cis women in terms of muscle mass/density, etc
I fight people and have opinions!
Really depends on the sport. In non-professional fencing and HEMA, practice tends to be coed. Men and women tend to perform equivalently - really height is the biggest “biological advantage”. More reach means more ability to hit an opponent before they hit you, and this goes the same for men and women. Sure, men can accelerate a bit faster and tend to be taller, women can plant their feet a little wider and tend to be more balanced and flexible - but these are just averages. Individual people vary wildly because biology doesn’t give a shit about the categories we create to describe it. And strategy can make up for a lot of those things in ways that you really just can’t with height discrepancies. We had to give our club’s tallest member a shorter axe just to make up for the reach advantage when she fought people she stood a head above.
Dividing strictly based on AGAB is not an even playing field and I feel trans athletes only draw attention to what’s already a significant problem in competitive sports. And once you get to a professional level, I understand there’s more nuance, but a vast, vast majority of athletes are not professional and the issue is blown far out of proportion for them. Anyone pushing to enforce divisions in kids’ sports via genital inspections has lost their goddamn minds.
Some people just like to inspect kids’ genitals. Those are not the kind of people who should make these decisions, though.
i was in taekwondo as a kid. I was really good, imo. I competed at the national level and won several medals. But I still routinely got my ass handed to me on a silver platter by the women/girls I trained with whenever we’d spar.
In many combat sports like MT, BJJ, and MMA opinions are quite strong, and possibly rightly so when there is a risk of bodily harm. Some BJJ comps have put together rules where a trans person can enter their chosen division, as long as competitors agree to compete with them. That seems to be a common middle-ground, but still results in some people refusing and blocking that person from competing with their own gender. Some have just redefined the men’s categories to “open” and lumped trans people into that category.
Frankly, what I would love to see is a fully funded study, and a commitment from sporting bodies to both follow that guidance AND to commit to future funding to repeat experiments.
That sort of rhetoric always feels sexist to me. The implication is that trans women shouldn’t compete since those with XY chromosomes have some sort of superpower that means they’ll beat those with XX.
The quote “Trans women can compete in sports as long as they don’t win.” always stood out to me.
It’s more about things like height, lung volume capacity and leg/arm length in certain sports. Not chromosomes.
so that’s really what people should be grouped based on in these sports instead of gender.
Well it is more complicated than that. After puberty female bodies usually have more fat and less muscle mass, than similiarly trained male bodies. Also the metabolism and “energy management” of male bodies is more advantageous for most sports. Note of course that these are also spectrums, and women who train well outcompete men who don’t.
So it does make sense to group athletes by gender too. But like somebody else said in this thread, there is no factual reason, why gender should be the only or the main grouping criteria.
all the things u list are still just individual factors, thst can be indicidually measured. gender does not play a role for them. make leagues based on these factors and not gender.
So how do you want to do it? I cannot see it as particularly inviting that athletes are grouped by body fat ratio, or needing an extensive medical analysis on how their metabolism performs.
Why not at the pro level?
And a body that has significantly more testosterone, which helps with sports where raw strength is an advantage, like cycling, sprinting and swimming.
A healthy man’s testosterone will vary around 8~29 nmol/L (nanomoles per litre), while a woman will have 0~2 nmol/L.
It’s not that clear-cut as cis women with abnormally high testosterone levels are overrepresented in top level sports, to the point where competitions that tried to define the men’s and women’s groups based on testosterone levels end up with cis people on the wrong side of the line. Also, hrt for trans people is usually stronger than the natural hormone levels of a cis person of the same gender as it’s meant to change their body rather than just maintain it, so the attributes that are more dependent on hormones typically overshoot.
What do you mean by this? My T levels have been in the average female range for more than five years now. I don’t even take blockers, estrogen + progesterone take care of it on their own.
I also never had male range T levels, they were always somewhere halfway between the two.
I mean I can see why some people feel like they are at a biological disadvantage here
Why would sex be the only genetic advantage we normalize for? Welsh people tend to be taller than Italians, should there be an Italians-only basketball league that bans Welsh folk?
It’s not. Boxing has weight classes because a heavyweight would snap a featherweight in half and some people literally can’t reach heavyweight without going overweight.
kind of invalidates the whole “they have a biological advantage” argument then, doesn’t it?
How?
by deciding arbitrarily that some biological advantages are just an inherent part of sports but others need to be regulated
How are they arbitrary decisions? The reason boxing has weight restrictions is because the heavier weight guy might actually kill the lighter weight guy, there’s a clear health risk behind that decision. Same actually goes for a lot of fighting sports. And when it comes to sports like Tennis results have shown than men have a clear biological advantage over women, which is why women get separate tennis tournaments. And as a counter-example marathon running (at least to my knowledge) doesn’t have male and female marathons, because there’s no clear biological advantage for either sex.
Biological regulations tend to happen when there’s either a health risk or an systemic advantage. If Usain Bolt has some magical leg muscles that make him one of the greatest (if not the greatest) sprinter of all time then that does not need regulating because that’s just him, it’s his natural talent. But if everyone can juice their body to make such magical leg muscles, then that needs to be regulated because it would give an unfair advantage against other people who wouldn’t juice themselves.
And to take your Welsh vs Italians comparison to a more realistic example, world dwarf games exist and it contains basketball. There actually is a basketball tournament specifically for extremely short people. You thought the height thing would be silly, but it’s actually a thing.
there is a clear health risk in all combat sports, but two big dudes are allowed to beat parkinson’s disease into one another as are two small dudes. whether to draw a line at all and where to draw the line are arbitrary, even if you like the decision.
not only is marathon running divided by gender, but shrieking transphobes threw a fit about a trans woman “beating 14,000 real women” in the new york marathon when she actually came in at about the 6,000th place
chess is divided by gender. are you willing to defend the position that cis women can’t think? if so, how do you defend the stripping of titles from trans men that were earned when they competed as women?
in the case of the dwarf olympics the difference is you’re banning a characteristic of an individual athlete that gives an advantage, not categorically banning all athletes who could potentially have that characteristic.
…I mean when you put it that way, it would be kinda funny if there was one
NOW TO BAN THE WELSH
That is a valid question, but in that case you just make it a single league, men and women together.
If it’s such a big deal, why not separate by ability rather than sex? We already have weight classes in some sports. Make it so only people who exhibit a certain amount of strength or whatever is relevant to the sport can participate.
Because not all of us want to see an end to female professional sports. From athletics to contact sports to solo and team sports if we separate by ability this will guarantee women get even less space to compete at the highest levels.
But you can still be at the highest level in whatever category you’re in. Just like when you separate by sex.
I think Utah’s governor, a Republican, actually put it best.
https://governor.utah.gov/2022/03/24/gov-cox-why-im-vetoing-hb11/
The transgender sports participation issue is one of the most divisive of our time. Because there are logical and passionate arguments by many parties, finding compromise or common ground can be difficult. Sadly, there is very little room for nuance in this debate. But I hope you will permit me an opportunity to explain my reasons for vetoing HB11…
I must admit, I am not an expert on transgenderism. I struggle to understand so much of it and the science is conflicting. When in doubt however, I always try to err on the side of kindness, mercy and compassion. I also try to get proximate and I am learning so much from our transgender community. They are great kids who face enormous struggles. Here are the numbers that have most impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86 and 56.
- 75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports in Utah.
- 4 transgender kids playing high school sports in Utah.
- 1 transgender student playing girls sports.
- 86% of trans youth reporting suicidality.
- 56% of trans youth having attempted suicide.
Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That’s what all of this is about. Four kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly.
All of that is invalidated because of who he represents and who he votes on. As a whole he has done more damage than good.
As if the Democrats are much better. They’ll give you trans rights but stop short of preventing the murder of thousands in other ways.
i wouldn’t say there that much better but they are definely better regarding trans rights. Just because both options are shit doesn’t mean one shit can’t be better than the other
Everybody’s talking about trans women in sport yet nobody’s talking about transmen, which would close this topic once for all.
Dexterity is my dump stat
I dump all my stats.
Your dump dump stat must be intense.
My end goal is integer underflow wraparound.
I’ve never tried that position before
It’s my favorite position from the Karma Supra.
TIL, after looking up the “Nuclear Gandhi” thing, that there was never a bug in Civilization that made India more nuke-happy.
Well, TIL too…
Which is exactly the kind of tactic both someone with an intelligence of -1 or 255 would think of.
Shouldn’t constitution be the dump stat?
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(lose to every other class 1v1)
Dread girl design is super cool!
Electric blue locks? Oh my yes please
Research on this topic has definitively shown that trans athletes do worse in female sports than cis athletes. So. Kind of a close question.
Do you have a source?
With absolutely no research just the one right wing woman swimmer who lost to a trans woman swimmer she “lost” by placing fifth to the fourth place trans woman.
So they both lost to three faster women.
Conservatives playing the victim so hard that they have to extra lose
No trans woman has won an Olympic medal in the women’s category. The closest thing has been Canadian soccer player Quinn, who won as part of the team, rather than solo.
(And they won because our women’s team slaps. Get gud, world.)
Get gud, world.
Tbf, trans women are only a small percentage of all athletes in the women’s category. So it’s not so weird that none has won yet.
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I think it’s half true. I forget exactly, but it should be in here https://youtu.be/cZ9YAFYIBOU?si=736vBgjHH15o968i
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/cZ9YAFYIBOU?si=736vBgjHH15o968i
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That sound like bullshit
Without sources I’m calling BS. A few minutes Googling and I found studies claiming the opposite. Disclaimer: I don’t care about this topic and would probably just COED all sports. I kinda hate professional sports generally
I mean a 2 second google search lead me to finding out that no trans woman has won an Olympic medal in the women’s category. The closest thing has been Canadian soccer player Quinn, who won as part of the team, rather than solo.
(And they won because our women’s team slaps. Get gud, world.)
Why does the rosette have a backwards 1?
why are the trans flag colours inverted except on the third panel?
Who are the mysterious shadow people and where has the fence gone?
The camera angle has changed. In the first four pictures the losers are side by side. In the last frame green tanktop is behind the other.
I thought maybe the comic had been modified in some way, but all the images of it I can find online look like this. Odd.
Different fonts as well?
Is there an advantage in being male when it comes to skateboarding?
use your massive schlong as a counterbalance for tricks
I can ollie my balls off a curb
I can grindy schlong on a rail.
I dont know a physiological difference, but being around skateboarding for 25+ years… Males definitely had/have a higher ceiling
The only real advantage is being short gives you a smaller center of gravity and Tony Hawk is just a freak of nature.
Absolutely. Are you asking seriously?
Well obviously, skate rhymes with scrot.
Is this comic a reference to something specific?
I do remember a recent thing where a woman skater went full-ass TERF after having placed lower than a trans woman in a competition and making the right wing noise cycle, conveniently leaving out that they placed something like fifth and sixth behind a child. Google is being extremely unhelpful right now in finding it, though, instead showing me article after article about a separate story where a trans woman won a skating competition, which frame it in the most horrible way possible by making repeated reference to the fact that a 13 year old got second place. Lots of mentions of her “beating a 13 year old” and not being apologetic about it.
I saw a comment about it yesterday. https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7n878/female-skateboarder-becomes-right-wing-hero-after-losing-to-woman-getting-very-upset-on-instagram
“Boy”
What do you mean by this?
They’re transphobic, this is a conservative account. Feel free to report.
