Celebrating the confederacy is wrong, but I also think museum-like stuff and graveyards are harmless and should be respected. First of all, not everyone who served had much of a choice. Many were expected to serve on one side or the other merely because of where they lived. This is true of much of history. Second, they’re dead. It’s over for these specific people. They’re not a current problem. It’s just disrespectful no matter who it is.
I am NOT defending anything confederate, but I know that nuance is lost on most people.
I’m in total agreement, and have visited many union and confederate historical sites (graveyards, prisons, battlefields), which have been invaluable sources of information.
I broadly agree, but would point out that the huge number of statues erected during the civil rights era, celebrating people that led a traitorous war to defend slavery have little to no historical value, and were put in place to send a message echoing what those confederate leaders fought for.
We teach about the Nazis without celebrating them - I don’t see why the Confederates should be any different.
I don’t see any statues in this photo. Nobody here is talking about celebrating the Confederate soldiers, only suggesting that their graves shouldn’t be pissed on.
If you don’t think statues are covered under the umbrella of “museum-like stuff” and aren’t relevant to a conversation about what public relics of the Confederacy should be preserved, that’s a you issue, my guy.
Maybe you missed the point of my comment. I agree with you that Confederate statues erected during the civil rights movement are an affront to everything we stand for as a nation. I agree that they should be torn down wherever they exist.
I also don’t understand what any of that has to do with a photo of unmarked Confederate graves. Or how it would in any way justify pissing on them.
It has everything to do with the thread I responded to. Is there a reason you took issue with my reference to statues, but not other people with far more upvotes responding to the same comment in the same thread talking about battlefields, prisons, and houses?
I’d suggest you go back and read what we were all replying to - I’m clearly not the only one that doesn’t think this whole conversation needs to be restricted to the pissing on the graves in the photo.
Again, this is a you issue.
Would make a meme about pissing on the grave of someone that served in the Wehrmacht?
Would I? Yes.
Their ghost either understands and agrees, or they don’t and deserve it.
What’s pissing on Wermacht graves got to do with modern, politically motivated Confederate statues and teaching about the Confederacy responsibly in a similar manner to the way we teach about the Nazis?
I’m sorry to say that I think you got a little over-excited about your gotcha and blew your wad early.
You should probably check the meme in the OP for context if you’re having trouble figuring out how pissing on a Wehrmacht grave is connected
I’ve been to this cemetery and house—the staff are beyond amazing when it comes to putting things into context. There’s even a giant sign before you enter that says something to the effect “Take a moment of somber silence before you enter, humans were enslaved here.” They’ve also done a lot of work with local black historians to try and trace the genealogy of slaves from the plantation and restore the slave quarters to show how horrific it all was.
statuses should be dismantled or at least stored away in some museum, we shouldn’t treat them like heroes
Please don’t actually disrespect these graves.
Jokes are jokes
Yeah, until idiots on the Internet start taking them literally. See: 4chan.
See also: [gestures broadly at American politics]
See also: [gestures broadly at this thread]
So, we shouldn’t say or do anything because some fucking moron will inevitably take it literally?? This is a meme sub ffs
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And how many of those corpses were poor white trash duped into fighting to preserve a rich man’s status quo?
I’m betting 98%.
Without looking and never studying American history, I bet >3% of the confederate soldiers were black slave soldiers fighting because their “owners” made them…
You’d be wrong. Few things terrified the white southern aristocracy as much as the prospect of armed black folk. There was a black militia in Louisiana which, inexplicably*, offered its services to the Confederacy. The Confederacy quite vehemently declined.
*well, not really inexplicably, but getting into race relations in former colonial French holdings and tbqh I don’t feel like going through that right now
That’s actually fascinating. I knew there were free black soldiers in the Union, but none in the south is mind boggling.
Our history classes coverage of the US civil war was basically: “we don’t want that fighting shit up here, so provinces were given less power, and we joined together because we needed to be able to defend ourselves in case the Union invades us.”
I think there was a last-ditch effort like, right before the South lost the war where they authorized black soldiers, but I don’t think they ever saw combat. May not have even been mustered and trained. But it was like a month or two before the war ended.
You know, I’ve been conflicted about this subject for a while. You see, my grandfather’s great grandfather was a confederate soldier. He was injured and sent back home to Alabama where he helped people during a cholera outbreak.
He was a complicated man without whom I wouldn’t be here. Was he racist? I’m sure he was. That wasn’t unusual back then for the north or the south.
Race relations are complicated everywhere. Not just in the south. Hell, not just in the USA. We lack the proper words in the English language to explain just how fucking awful slavery is. Slavery is abhorrent. Slavery is repugnant. Yet those descriptors don’t seem to properly convey just how fucked up slavery is. But believe it or not in the eyes of history that’s kind of a new take.
I’m sure that a lot of people will not appreciate what I’ve said, and that’s ok. I decided that the racism in my family stops at me. My kids have never met my family. Instead I tell my kids about the lessons I learned from the parental figures I collected like Pokémon. Like Ronnie if any of you read that comment a while back.
But also, when I was a kid, every Memorial Day we would go to the cemetery where a lot of my family is buried. We’d put flowers on everyone’s graves including a confederate soldier. Not because he was racist, but because he was family. For better or for worse.
My extended family’s ancestors stole land from indigenous people that their descendants sold to provide a comfortable upper middle class life for their family. Fuck them for destroying the livelihood, culture and lives of those people. If people want to piss on their graves I wouldn’t stop them.
Well, cheers I guess. People are complicated. I guess that I can acknowledge that a person is flawed. While still admitting that they were probably a flawed human doing the best they could with the flawed information they had. You and I included.
I hope that one day you too will be able to see monsters for the humans they really are.
Hitler was a human. It’s okay to piss on his grave
My ancestor did murder millions of innocent people. Nor did any other confederate soldier for that matter. They supported a system that murdered countless innocent people.
So, at best they would be compared to rank and file German soldiers.
“No, no; not that one. I meant smaller monsters.”
I don’t believe in monsters. Monsters are just people who broke the social contract to treat all people around them with respect and dignity, so they don’t get to then demand respect and dignity in death.
People keep saying ‘it was a different time’ completely ignoring the fact there were people back then literally fighting for the rights of the oppressed.
They are dead and gone. What ever feelings the dirt and stone provoke are your own. The dead flowers too are only for yourself. Me, I despise the unempethic people who brought suffering to others. They did live in a different time and any one person alone couldn’t have done enough to change all of society. If I’m going out of my way to honor a thought in my head I would chose to honor the few that did put society on the right track.
I think this is rather distasteful.
Whatever side they fought on it would do well to remember that these people too have their stories. How many were dragged in to fight in the meat grinder, no matter their opinions?
Even German graves from WWII are typically left alone because they already paid the ultimate price.
Edit: if anything, this should serve as a reminder what war really is and why we should always avoid it if we can
There’s an old saying that the Civil War was “a rich man’s war, but a poor man’s fight”.
The National Parks Service put this together, and I think it really shows the people who died were fighting for a variety of reasons. It doesn’t mean we should glorify the Confederacy, but the people in that cemetery deserve their peace.
https://www.nps.gov/apco/planyourvisit/upload/Why-Confederates-Fought-Final.pdf
Rush Limbaugh’s grave, on the other hand, will always be a gender-neutral bathroom.
Even German graves from WWII are typically left alone because they already paid the ultimate price.
Jesus fucking Christ.
If John Bell Hood had had his head blown off instead of his leg, he’d probably be remembered as fondly as Jackson.
Fortunately (for the Union), he survived to “defend” Atlanta, then invade Tennessee. The Battle of Franklin being in that comedy of errors. The base wasn’t named after him until 1942. By people who read enough history to know Hood commanded the Texas brigade, but not enough to know how he commanded it.
I salute General Hood on account that he’s responsible for more dead Confederates than any two Union Generals.
Story time? Please?
This meme makes me miss the old ShermanPosting subreddit. Excellent post
There’s actually a ShermanPosting community here I made in honor of the old one!
Hell yeah! Subscribed :)
We need a Sherman posting Lemmy sub
The number of Confederate apologists in this thread is frankly insane. “Oh no! Someone is making jokes about pissing on the graves of traitors and slavers! What if there were some innocent people in there?? I mean, I realize that it’s going to be really difficult to find someone who was so insanely stupid to not be aware that they were fighting for slavers and traitors, but what if they exist???!?! Are you going to piss on their grave, too!!!???!”
No, I think it’s recognition that whatever crimes you think they’ve done, they’ve paid for it already in a permanent way. So joking about pissing on their graves (160 years later ffs) is ill taste. Feel free to smear shit or graffiti over confederate statues that seek to glorify the cause rather than memorialize the dead though since that is not the same thing.
I also think most common soldiers in the confederate army fought for no higher reason than they were drafted and had little choice; or they signed up to defend their state against an existential threat. If you look at recruitment posters of the time, they’re talking of northern invaders raping and pillaging their women, property and lands.
whatever crimes you think they’ve done, they’ve paid for it already in a permanent way
Have they, though? Death isn’t exactly unique. Regardless of how good or bad a person you are, everybody has death as their final fate. So dying for a shitty cause isn’t exactly punishment, considering that people who were in favor of a good cause still met the same fate. Death isn’t a punishment for being a shitty person, it’s just a birthright.
I also think most common soldiers in the confederate army fought for no higher reason than they were drafted and had little choice
Ok, but you know who else was drafted and had little choice? The people who defected. Some of those same people worked to further the cause of abolition by operating the underground railroad. Some of them wound up in prison, and some of them were hanged. I don’t have any sympathy whatsoever for someone who lacked the courage or morality to fight against evil. And I have even less sympathy for someone stupid enough to fall for basic bitch propaganda like what you described.
Dude, that is so easy to say when you weren’t actually there, in a completely different time.
The flow of information was completely different back then too. You have the worlds information at your fingertips, these people hardly new what happened outside of their town and even then it was delayed and through very few sources.
It’s not that your anger is completely unjustified, but damn dude… Your anger is directed at a bunch of dead suckers most of whom were probably not large land owners and politicians. Direct it at their leaders, or better, the suckers very much alive, currently buying MAGA hats.
Oh, you guys, they just didn’t know slavery was bad. They were very stupid. :( You can’t piss on stupid people; that’s like ableism or something.
Direct it at their leaders, or better, the suckers very much alive, currently buying MAGA hats.
What do you think pissing on the graves is for?
I run into MAGA / QAnon loons online and they suffer the opposite issue. They have plenty of information to choose from and they’ll choose the worst and use cognitive dissonance to blank the rest. The number of times they’ll dismiss stuff by proclaiming it comes “from the Soros media” or whatever. One basket case even replied to a news story the other day that Ukraine was a “movie set” to discount the news of missile strikes. How can you reach people like that?
I suspect for all people during the American civil war their only source of news was their local newspapers and fliers. Hardly surprising if they were unable to develop enlightened views that GP seems to judge them for not having.
And yet the North held them to those views when they killed them. Maybe the North should have tried asking politely.
I think you seriously underestimate my capacity for anger. Of course I direct it at the leaders and the modern-day traitors as well. My anger is a multi-faceted thing. Seriously, though, are you only capable of being angry about one thing at a time? Because if not, why would you assume that I am?
And as I said, the rubes you’re describing will receive no sympathy from me. I don’t rate willful stupidity or cowardice among human virtues. They might not be as deserving of a river of piss as the knowingly evil people who led them, but it’s not like I’m going to get bent out of shape if someone pissed on their graves all the same. They were shit then, and they’re shit now. The only thing that’s changed is that ~160 years have passed since they died, and for some reason, some people seem to think that time passing means that bygones should be bygones.
Yes they have paid the price. They’re dead as doornails, killed from battle, wounds and disease. And you seem to know a lot about all these people to blanket describe them as “a shitty person” each and all.
As for drafting, the point is obvious. Getting drafted meant extreme hardship for a man’s family. Some communities resisted the draft, many more were impressed whether they liked it or not. And even those who volunteered were joining for more base emotions than slavery - they were literally told by all the media and information they had access to that the northerners were coming to destroy them, rape their wives & daughters, set slaves free to murder their families and steal their land. Maybe you live in an information rich media sphere but they didn’t.
And absolutely the Confederacy was a terrible and rotten cause through and through but most of these people didn’t have any choice in the matter. No more so than the people drafted in the North. In fact if you look at Confederate draft laws they were even more inequitable and bullshit to the poor as the ones for the Union, where the rich could buy their way out of service by finding a man in their stead, or simply for owning slaves. It’s the poor bastards who didn’t own slaves or hold wealth you see beneath those grave markers.
And you seem to know a lot about all these people to blanket describe them as “a shitty person” each and all.
I know that they were slavers and the defenders of slavers. That’s enough.
For example, I don’t know much about Brock “the Rapist” Turner, but I know he raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster, so that’s enough for me to say that he’s a shitty person, and fuck him forever. And you know what? Anybody who sticks up for Brock is also a shitty person. And that’s just rape. Slavery was so much worse, and also included lots of rape on top.
Maybe you live in an information rich media sphere but they didn’t.
Ok, but all of those people who resisted the draft lived in that same media-poor sphere, did they not? Are you just going to pretend that those people didn’t exist? Do you think they made the hard choices they did just because they had more information than their peers? If that’s the case, why didn’t people like Robert E. Lee, who had much more access to information than the vast majority of his traitorous compatriots also join the resistance?
Maybe it’s not a differential of information, but of morality that is the determining factor.
And absolutely the Confederacy was a terrible and rotten cause through and through but most of these people didn’t have any choice in the matter.
Except for all of the people who “didn’t have a choice” and chose not to fight anyway.
It’s the poor bastards who didn’t own slaves or hold wealth you see beneath those grave markers.
Let’s be clear, here. I don’t think they’re pieces of shit because they were poor. There were plenty of poor people who died fighting against slavery. I have no desire to piss on their graves. They died heroes. The people who fought to advance the cause of slavery, though, fuck them forever. In this life, it is not your intentions that define you in the eyes of others, but your actions. Their actions caused a massive amount of pain and suffering.
Seems like the your depth of knowledge and critical thinking applied is purely based off a long history of reading internet comments
I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. Care to share some of the insight that led to that conclusion, professor?
damn, you’d cry for the nazi camp guards as well, by that logic
How does that logic work please? I’m quite happy that most Nazi camp guards got strung up. I don’t have an urge to go shit on their graves though. Also there is-ever-so-slightly massive difference between some guy getting shot on the frontline after being impressed into service and some sadist torturing and murdering people for kicks. The nearest comparison in civil war times might be a camp like Andersonville, but I was conspicuously not talking about Andersonville.
oh, so the guys who fought at the front invading half of Europe were fine? got it.
but death does not absolve the world of the crimes committed, and pissing on someones grave is showing that you don’t respect these people, who should not be respected.
No, it is recognition that they’re dead and you defiling graves of people you know nothing about, or their personal culpability is just stupid and gross.
Death might not be unique, but people’s lives are. Their lives were taken from them. That was the price they paid
My point is that everybody pays that price. They paid no more than every other person who has ever existed. Very few people actually want to die, but everybody eventually does. Those men received the same fate as the people they were fighting against. The main difference is that the world became slightly better for everybody else with every single one of them that died.
I’ll leave you be, now that I realized most of the ignorant comments in this thread are coming from you. We probably won’t get any good conversation going.
It may make life a little more confusing, but you might enjoy not seeing everything so black and white
I think you probably don’t know what the word “ignorant” means. But it sounds good, and you have nothing to reply with, so might as well lob that one out. That’ll show me!
It may make life a little more confusing, but you might enjoy not seeing everything so black and white
Oh, I’m sorry, you’re right. Slavery is MOSTLY bad, but you know, sometimes it was good! Or something equally stupid.
You go directly to an single point to vindicate a strong general stance. Go piss on there graves, who cares… They are dead and gone.
But we all deserve our graves pissed on then, if you can simplify shit down to good and evil applied to demographics so easily.
And they paid it defending slavery…
Do you know anything about those specific people? Or anything about the grave site besides this post?
Like, I dont care… Piss on all the graves you want. It means nothing to anyone but the pisser truthfully. But shits just silly ignorance to hate full demographics to the point to show the highest form of symbolic disrepect to unknown people and stories.
Cared enough to reply lol
“Nazis deserve respect too!” these absolute cretins sob, “They were products of their time!”
It’s a stupid joke. It’s often best to just let the dead lie. In any case, the stones and dead that lay beneath them don’t care - you can’t hurt them or impress them.
You want to “get even” with them? Good! They did a bad thing and paid the immediate cost with the loss of their lives. But to truly get even - forget them and let them be lost to time and memory. As it stands, you obsess over them just as much as if you were a member of the KKK.
As it stands, you obsess over them just as much as if you were a member of the KKK.
You have some very strange ideas, my friend. What do you imagine my day-to-day life to be like? How often do you think I tell people that we should all piss on the graves of confederates? Hourly? Daily? Monthly?
Don’t you think that it’s more likely that me defending pissing on the graves of Confederates has much more to do with the fact that I’m responding in a thread that was specifically about pissing on their graves?
I mean, for fuck’s sake; I didn’t even make the thread. If anything, PugJesus would be the obsessed one; he made the fucking thread, after all.
Is it that you think that I’m obsessed with the concept because I’ve made several replies in this thread? Well… I’ve made several replies in a lot of different threads. Usually, when someone replies to me, I will reply back. That’s just how forums and communication in general work. Do you not do that? Careful! Better not reply to me, or I’ll assume you’re obsessed with me!
Your strident defense of the joke and replies to others is the indication you are in strong agreement with the “joke”. What else is anyone reading your replies supposed to think? That you don’t care about it at all?
Your strident defense of the joke and replies to others is the indication you are in strong agreement with the “joke”.
Yes, I am! Congratulations for understanding basic contextual clues!
I’m not sure how that makes me obsessed with it, though, as you initially suggested. I mean, it’s a bit of a stretch to go from pointing out that I agree with the meme to:
you obsess over them just as much as if you were a member of the KKK.
Or were you just being hyperbolic in some weird attempt to shame me for thinking that evil people deserve to have their graves pissed on?
Or were you just being hyperbolic in some weird attempt to shame me for thinking that evil people deserve to have their graves pissed on?
A bit perhaps. But mostly just pointing out the silliness of it all. Whatever point you are tying to make is lost on them. As I said, the stones and the remains that lie beneath them do not care about your opinion of them - and they never did even in life. And making a big deal out them now only serves to keep the memories alive.
Whatever point you are tying to make is lost on them.
Do you think that I think that the scant remains of people who have been dead for ~160 years give a shit about whether people piss on their graves? Because I can assure you, I do not. I have never argued that pissing on someone’s grave is a way of punishing them; that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say, and as a rule, I try to not say incredibly stupid things. But pissing on someone’s grave is a great bit of catharsis for the pisser, especially if the pissee was an evil motherfucker.
And making a big deal out them now only serves to keep the memories alive.
Ah yes. People pissing on Confederate graves is what is keeping alive the memories of the confederacy. Not the statues or the people with the confederate flags, or the politicians currently in congress who believe that Robert E. Lee was a founding father. Nope, none of that does, but pissing on the graves, yeah. That’s the real ticket.
So a couple of sentences back, when I said that I try to not say incredibly stupid things? Maybe you should make that same effort going forward.
The best way to celebrate confederate generals is by melting down statues dedicated to them during the civil rights era and re-casting them into urinals
My uncle will be turned into a toilet when he dies. That’s he get’s for being a forced birther.
Apt username.
Go ahead, I’ll give you another chance to respond like a real person.
Apparently civility politics is back in style for pleading for sympathy for… [checks notes] people who fought to uphold one of the most brutal forms of an already brutal institution in defense of white supremacy.
Won’t someone think of the slaveowners?
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I’ll tell your great-granddaddy you said hi.
It’s functionally the same logic as… [check notes] American civilians deserving to die in 9/11 for being complicit in American imperialism. Would asking Bin Laden not to attack the WTC count as “civility politics”?
“Disrespecting the graves of soldiers who literally fought and died in a war for slavery is the exact same thing as killing civilians in a terrorist attack because a rich Saudi kid was assmad that infidels were on holy land in the early 90s”
10/10
Take a few minutes to hear from a man who fought in the Civil War as a 16 year old boy for the 26th Virginia Cavalry.
He wasn’t old enough or educated enough to even realize slavery was one of the causes of the war. At the end of the video he blames the wealthy/politicians for getting them into it, and celebrates the end of slavery.
Makes you wonder what his story would have been if the south had won
I’m assuming you’re thinking every single soldier in the Confederacy fights because they want their precious slavery.
not everyone who served had much of a choice. Many were expected to serve on one side or the other merely because of where they lived. This is true of much of history
I’m pointing to this comment made by someone in this post. Feel free to piss on the grave of Jefferson Davis or soldiers who thought like him. Also, Bin Laden thought every American civilian is just as guilty as the soldiers.
From Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden, as quoted in the guy’s Wikipedia page:
“Furthermore, he argued that all Americans were complicit in the crimes of their government due to majority of them electing it to power and paying taxes that fund the US military.”
Assuming you’re American, what do you think if someone you don’t like uses the same logic against you?
I’m assuming you’re thinking every single soldier in the Confederacy fights because they want their precious slavery.
The war is literally about slavery. As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the calculus is the same as people who fought for the fucking Nazis - if you’re ‘brave’ enough to die for slavers, but not for slaves, you deserve to be cast in with the slavers.
Also, Bin Laden thought every American civilian is just as guilty as the soldiers.
Okay…? Why does the rich Saudi kid’s opinion on how civilians are totally okay to murder matter here?
Assuming you’re American, what do you think if someone you don’t like uses the same logic against you?
… how is that the same logic? Please, explain to me how “It’s okay to disrespect people who served in the armed forces of a revolt whose sole purpose was slavery” and “It’s okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” is the same logic?
Okay…? Why does the rich Saudi kid’s opinion on how civilians are totally okay to murder matter here?
Probability-wise, you’re mad that Bin Laden even thought of murdering civilians in the first place. Bin Laden didn’t care because in his view, they’re virtually combatants i.e. valid targets for a struggle that you disagree with, to put it mildly.
… how is that the same logic? Please, explain to me how “It’s okay to disrespect people who served in the armed forces of a revolt whose sole purpose was slavery” and “It’s okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” is the same logic?
The intensity of the desired action (mere disrespect vs. murder) is very different, but its logic is the same from my perspective: I want to do X on Y because I don’t like that Y does Z. Let’s take the “okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” hypothetical sentiment. Though very remote, it’s not impossible for an unhinged enough anarchist to believe this and actually act on it.
Probability-wise, you’re mad that Bin Laden even thought of murdering civilians in the first place. Bin Laden didn’t care because in his view, they’re virtually combatants i.e. valid targets for a struggle that you disagree with, to put it mildly.
I can say infants are virtually combatants, and it doesn’t make it so. Why is his insane argument at all valid?
The intensity of the desired action (mere disrespect vs. murder) is very different, but its logic is the same from my perspective: I want to do X on Y because I don’t like that Y does Z.
… what
“I want to put murderers in jail because I don’t like that murderers kill people”
is thus the same logic as
“I want to murder gay people because I don’t like that gay people have sex with the same gender”
are you fucking shitting me right now
are you fucking shitting me right now
No. It’s really the same logic. Otherwise, homophobia would not be even a thing anywhere in the world.
I’m thinking that by your logic, you would also urinate on the graves of Vietnam veterans, many of whom had no choice, because they were conscripted, and either lacked the means to avoid conscription or were unable to flee the US.
Tbh pave it for a parking lot
- History is important, even history we disagree with. Especially history that some current ideologue wants to hide
- These people being killed left suffering for their family and friends, a missing generation was a huge problem for their community
- Most soldiers were likely fighting for their friends and communities. Maybe I’m overstepping for things I’ve never experienced, but I would be willing to bet that very few individual soldiers chose to be there to support slavery, or had anywhere near that amount of abstraction in their motivations
This is what a cursed place looks like. Somewhere you start desecrating and bad things will happen to you from some truly bad souls.
Would be a bit rough if someone actually did this
Misspelled “rad”.
What word would be the misspelled one?
“Rough”
How do you even manage to misspell “rad” so badly that it’d read “rough”??
It’s a joke about pretending that you meant to say that it would be a rad thing to do.
Oh wow really?
Rough
I’ve argued this before, but if Russia has any hope to move towards capitalism rather than their current communist streak, whoever succeeds Putin would be wise to sell the opportunity to piss on Putin’s grave.
If done smartly, this could be a really good opportunity for Russia. Imagine going to pissonputinsgrave.com and being greeted by several packages:
- Base package - $15. You’re in the neighborhood and you want to piss on his grave. Just buy the ticket, show the QR code to Igor and he’ll look the other way while you enjoy pissing on the cunt.
- Deluxe - $450. 5 nights in a 4-star Moscow hotel await you. Entrance to museums, the Kremlin and Putin’s grave are included in the price. Enjoy pissing on his grave every night of your vacation, even multiple times a day. Igor will even aim your penis at the grave if you want.
- Oligarch - $1000. Deluxe package, but with flights to and from your location included. Igor will come pick you up. Igor will insist on aiming your penis at the grave.
- Remote - $5000. Why visit Russia when you can go to places that aren’t shitholes? When you’re truly wealthy, you can have your cake and eat it too. Igor will come to you. He will be carrying a gold cup with your name engraved on it in rubies. You may fill it with the liquid/solid of your choice, and Igor will take it back through customs somehow. You will receive a video of that very same cup being poured onto Putin’s grave, and will receive the cup back as a souvenir, after it has been thoroughly sanitized. You can of course have Igor hold your penis at any point while he is visiting.
I… what?
… Russia isn’t communist? And hasn’t been since the fall of the Soviet Union?
didn’t you know? capitalism is when you can sell things, communism is when things are bad
